Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Bram Moolenaar]

> On *Windows Terminal Preview* (Windows 11) with Windows PowerShell or CMD 
> as the shell, the 'columns=600' or any other such setting will be ignored 
> and the variable will remain at whatever vim set it to. So nothing happens 
> to the display.

OK, so this is for when Vim is started directly in the terminal.
It would be good if ":set columns=80" is working here.  I often use that
after messing with the window size for whatever reason (I use 80
columns so I can fit several terminal windows side-by-side).

> Using the Windows CMD shell under the old CMD terminal, whatever that is 
> called, will result in columns value being changed, but the terminal does 
> not change and has no issues after the setting.
> 
> Using RedHat's cygwin bash, which comes with Git-Desktop for instance, 
> inside of *Windows Terminal*, performing a "set columns=600" will result in 
> a corrupted terminal which cannot be fixed using the standard terminal 
> reset commands (tset(1) or reset(1)). Only closing and reopening the 
> terminal will return a good work session.

Perhaps it sets some environment variable only on startup?

> Using cygwin bash under the RedHat provided *mintty* terminal and 
> performing a "set columns=600" will cause vim to resize to the maximum 
> width of the system monitor and set Columns to a number that equates to the 
> new terminal size. This is the only terminal software I found that behaves 
> as one would expect a Linux terminal to work. This was the best terminal I 
> saw on Windows.
> 
> Finally, using the *GVim* provided with VIM for Windows will also change 
> the Terminal size according to changes in the 'columns' setting. Again, vim 
> will change the size of the terminal up to the actual maximum available on 
> the system monitor. The columns variable reflects the proper terminal size 
> like the *mintty *version does. I don't know what terminal that means is 
> used or even if it can be called a terminal, but clearly it works properly 
> with vim by design.

Vim uses libvterm, a "virtual" terminal that is build into Vim.  On
MS-Windows it uses ConPTY or WinPTY.  libvterm resembles an xterm and
many programs can work with it.

> So my conclusion is that this is a terminal software problem. Some 
> terminals adhere to the resizing commands that vim sends, some ignore it 
> but remain stable, and yet others become hopelessly corrupted requiring 
> that the software be closed and restarted. 

We can try to make it work.  For some terminals we may require the
maintainers to make changes.  I suppose there is no standard way for
handling size changes, like SIGWINCH on Unix.  If there is a terminal
that does this well we can suggest to use it as an example, hopefully we
can then avoid every terminal doing something different.

> Obviously Bram knows far more than I do, but my recommendation would
> be to use a Terminal package that behaves like a fully functional soft
> terminal should or don't resize the window *after* launching VIM.

In the help we can list terminals we know and what works for each of
them.  That can function as a recommendation.  It will take some effort
to keep up-to-date, but it's worth it.

> Personally I use bash and Windows Terminal when I'm on Windows. It has
> features I prefer and I don't usually resize my work space after I've
> got set up. Will Microsoft fix their issues. Not gonna hold my breath.

I'm sure Microsoft will not fix *all* their issues, but the team working
on the Windows Terminal has been responsive.  I hope at least one of
them is using Vim and fixes any encountered problems.  That's why Vim
works well in the Chrome secure shell :-).

> Should there be smoke coming out of my CPU?

No, it's bad for the cooling system and shortens life.

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Enan Ajmain]

On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 19:16:28 +0200
Christian Brabandt  wrote:
> > Am 21.06.2023 um 18:13 schrieb Enan Ajmain <3nan.ajm...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > ___On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:41:03 +0100
> > Bram Moolenaar  wrote:
> >> Can we assume that MS Terminal is included with the distribution, or
> >> installed most widely?  If so, then investing time in making this work
> >> properly is well worth it.
> >
> > Windows 11 comes with MS Terminal and is the default [1].
>
>
> Is this true? I thought I had to manually install it on my win 11 system.

Informed by good source.  I asked on a PowerShell Discord server.  A lot
of MS employees frequent there.  One of them said Windows 11 should
include MS Terminal.  He also said to tell him or Kayla (for some reason
he thought I know all of them) if I find any edge case.

There is also the link I provided in my previous email.  It declares
that Windows 11 will not only come with MS Terminal, it will come with
it as default (which is what Stan Brown talked about in the other reply
to your email).

> Thanks
> Chris
>

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Stan Brown]

It's true.

I use TCCLE (free version of Take Command) as a command-line shell on my
Windows machine. In an April round of updates, Windows 11 shifted to
opening TCCLE as a tab in a MS Terminal window rather than independently
as in the past. Fortunately, with a published hack I change Windows 11
back to the previous behavior.

Windows Terminal was there before the updates, but Windows didn't try as
aggressively to have us use it.

Maybe you are thinking of the Bash shell in Windows, part of the Windows
Subsystem for Linux? I don't use it myself; but, if I'm not mistaken,
you have to change some settings to activate WSL. Googling for
"bash shell" "Windows 11"
turns up many useful-looking pages. This one seems straightforward:


Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-06-21 10:16, Christian Brabandt wrote:
> 
> 
>> Am 21.06.2023 um 18:13 schrieb Enan Ajmain <3nan.ajm...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:41:03 +0100
>> Bram Moolenaar  wrote:
>>> Can we assume that MS Terminal is included with the distribution, or
>>> installed most widely?  If so, then investing time in making this work
>>> properly is well worth it.
>>
>> Windows 11 comes with MS Terminal and is the default [1].  
> 
> 
> Is this true? I thought I had to manually install it on my win 11 system.
> 
> Thanks 
> Chris
> 

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Christian Brabandt]

> Am 21.06.2023 um 18:13 schrieb Enan Ajmain <3nan.ajm...@gmail.com>:
> 
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:41:03 +0100
> Bram Moolenaar  wrote:
>> Can we assume that MS Terminal is included with the distribution, or
>> installed most widely?  If so, then investing time in making this work
>> properly is well worth it.
> 
> Windows 11 comes with MS Terminal and is the default [1].  


Is this true? I thought I had to manually install it on my win 11 system.

Thanks 
Chris

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Enan Ajmain]

On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:41:03 +0100
Bram Moolenaar  wrote:
> Can we assume that MS Terminal is included with the distribution, or
> installed most widely?  If so, then investing time in making this work
> properly is well worth it.

Windows 11 comes with MS Terminal and is the default [1].  As for making
this work: it already works fine.  You may be referencing a previous
issue I raised about colors [2].  That's a veeery minor issue.  And it
only appears when 'termguicolors' is disabled, which isn't the case for
most users.

(after re-reading the earlier emails:)

I see that Rob Solomon wrote:
> I'm following up w/ my last post, to say that it's been fixed by making the
> terminal window size smaller.  This fixed the same issue whether it was
> cmd.exe, windows terminal, or TakeCommand.

That's a contradiction between what they and I are experiencing.  On my
end, when I resize MS Terminal or Conhost, Vim resizes accordingly.  My
system is:

  OS: Windows 11 22H2 (Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.22621.1848])
  Terminal:   Windows Terminal Preview v1.18.1462.0
  Shell:  cmd.exe, PowerShell 7, git-bash, msys (tried all)
  Vim:v9.0.1640 (built with mingw-w64 toolchain of MSys2/UCRT64)

--
Enan

[1]: 
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-is-now-the-default-in-windows-11/
[2]: https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/SuVLCni9WCw/m/UtZ2DXLDAQAJ

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Bram Moolenaar]

> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
> Steve Martin  wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > Using the Windows CMD shell under the old CMD terminal, whatever that
> > is called
> 
> It's Console Host or Conhost in short.

There also is mention of "Win32 virtual console", the +vtp feature.
This is currently enabled for all MS-Windows non-GUI versions, thus it
doesn't appear to have an effect on how Vim works.  The feature itself
is useful to distinguish from an old Vim version that didn't support
this.

> > Personally I use bash and Windows Terminal when I'm on Windows. It
> > has features I prefer and I don't usually resize my work space after
> > I've got set up. Will Microsoft fix their issues. Not gonna hold my
> > breath.
> 
> I assume by "Microsoft" and "their issue" you mean the issue in Conhost.
> If so, then yeah, it's not gonna get fixed.  There are compatibility
> reasons for that (which I don't care about), but to circumvent this the
> team decided to overhaul Conhost and replace it with the new Terminal.
> It'll be the default in the next . . . I donno, year perhaps?  Decade?
> 
> And just to clarify, resizing MS Terminal window after launching Vim
> doesn't cause any problem.  MS Terminal should behave like a Linux
> terminal emulator.  It advertizes itself as supporting all xterm
> features.  Well, perhaps not all, but most of the oft-used ones.

A problem related to this is that Vim was originally made for the
console, not for a generic terminal like on Unix.  In the code there are
calls to is_term_win32() and different behavior when it returns true.
That is when 'term' is set to "win32".  And it is set to that value in a
few places, some may not be correct.  E.g. near the end of
did_set_string_option():

#if defined(FEAT_VTP) && defined(FEAT_TERMGUICOLORS)
if (args.os_did_swaptcap)
{
set_termname((char_u *)"win32");
init_highlight(TRUE, FALSE);
}
#endif

There is a check for Windows terminal in os_win32.c:

wt_working = mch_getenv("WT_SESSION") != NULL;

This flag is then used in several places through the USE_WT macro.

There are several other flags for VTP and CONPTY, with very specific
build versions.  I don't know how relevant these still are,  It mainly
results in conpty_type to be set to a certain number, which isn't
explained anywhere.  Looks like it is only used in libvterm and only the
value "2" makes a difference.

What matters for the original problem is how Vim obtains the size of the
console or terminal.  If it is a console then "g_cbTermcap.Info.dwSize"
is used.  Otherwise "csbi.srWindow" or fall back to 25 x 80.  This is in
mch_get_shellsize() in os_win32.c.  But mch_get_shellsize() in
os_mswin.c doesn't do anything, it is not supposed to be used, but is
it?  If it is, then doing something similar to mch_get_shellsize() in
os_unix.c would be helpful.  Using the MS-Windows equivalent of the
ioctl() calls.

> > In the end there are a lot of choices out there, which can be both
> > good and bad.
> 
> Before MS Terminal, Wezterm was the best choice.  Before that, Cmder and
> ConEmu.  And the problem with Mintty is that it's not independent.  The
> reason it behaves so like a Linux terminal is because it's built with
> Cygwin or Cygwin-like shells (MSys, git-bash, etc.) in mind.  You can't
> run Command Prompt or PowerShell on it.  You can't even run Win32
> version of Vim on it.  You'll need a Vim built with Cygwin.  That's an
> extra hassle in my opinion.

Can we assume that MS Terminal is included with the distribution, or
installed most widely?  If so, then investing time in making this work
properly is well worth it.

-- 
Some of the well known MS-Windows errors:
ETIME   Wrong time, wait a little while
ECRASH  Try again...
EDETECT Unable to detect errors
EOVER   You lost!  Play another game?
ENOCLUE Eh, what did you want?

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///  \\\
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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Bram Moolenaar]

> Looking at the Take Command website and Googling about it I can find no 
> reference to Take Command as a Terminal emulator *anywhere*. I am guessing 
> it has very basic, if any, capabilities at all. Thus it probably doesn't 
> heed any *':set columns=*' or other vim terminal commands.

If Vim's assumption of the terminal size (which is in the 'lines' and
'columns' options) does not match the actual terminal size, then display
problems are to be expected.

There are two sides: getting and setting the size.

Getting the size is always needed, unless you keep the terminal at the
default 25 x 80 size (which is unlikely).  On top of that, Vim would
need to get notified if the terminal size is changed (e.g. by dragging
the border) while it is running, see below.

Setting the size is needed to support ":set lines=123" and ":set
columns=123".  Or Vim needs to know that the size cannot be set and it
should give an error message and not change the number of lines/columns
used.

It is not so easy to figure out what happens in what sequence.  I'll add
a few log messages to the Unix implementation.  Handling the size works
fine there, thus this can be used as an example.  But it might be that
for MS-Windows it works differently.  E.g., in Unix a signal is used:
SIGWINCH.  I don't know if MS-Windows has something similar.  Also, the
implementation of term_report_winsize() needs to be checked.  This
should trigger the signal in any Vim instance running in a terminal
window, initiated from the Vim instance that has the terminal window.

-- 
hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
196. Your computer costs more than your car.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///  \\\
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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Enan Ajmain]

On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:05:52 -0700 (PDT)
"rwmit...@gmail.com"  wrote:
> Wow, that must have really hit a nerve for you to go into such
> lengths for a platform that is and has always been subpar, always
> several years behind everyone else.  

Couldn't agree more.  On Windows being subpar.  Not on my nerve being
hit.  I despise Windows.  Thankfully my programming laptop is a Linux
machine.  I donno what I would've done otherwise.

I also don't know what "length" I went to.  I just shared my knowledge
on something I hate.  That might sound unintuitive.  Why would someone
speak on something they hate?  To that all I can say is, you should hear
me rant about OOP.

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[rwmit...@gmail.com]

Wow, that must have really hit a nerve for you to go into such lengths for 
a platform that is and has always been subpar, always several years behind 
everyone else.

On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 2:27:59 AM UTC-4 Enan Ajmain wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
> Steve Martin  wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > Using the Windows CMD shell under the old CMD terminal, whatever that
> > is called
>
> It's Console Host or Conhost in short.
>
> > Personally I use bash and Windows Terminal when I'm on Windows. It
> > has features I prefer and I don't usually resize my work space after
> > I've got set up. Will Microsoft fix their issues. Not gonna hold my
> > breath.
>
> I assume by "Microsoft" and "their issue" you mean the issue in Conhost.
> If so, then yeah, it's not gonna get fixed. There are compatibility
> reasons for that (which I don't care about), but to circumvent this the
> team decided to overhaul Conhost and replace it with the new Terminal.
> It'll be the default in the next . . . I donno, year perhaps? Decade?
>
> And just to clarify, resizing MS Terminal window after launching Vim
> doesn't cause any problem. MS Terminal should behave like a Linux
> terminal emulator. It advertizes itself as supporting all xterm
> features. Well, perhaps not all, but most of the oft-used ones.
>
> > In the end there are a lot of choices out there, which can be both
> > good and bad.
>
> Before MS Terminal, Wezterm was the best choice. Before that, Cmder and
> ConEmu. And the problem with Mintty is that it's not independent. The
> reason it behaves so like a Linux terminal is because it's built with
> Cygwin or Cygwin-like shells (MSys, git-bash, etc.) in mind. You can't
> run Command Prompt or PowerShell on it. You can't even run Win32
> version of Vim on it. You'll need a Vim built with Cygwin. That's an
> extra hassle in my opinion.
>
> > __
> >
> > Should there be smoke coming out of my CPU?
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 1:47:23 AM UTC-6 Steve Martin wrote:
> >
> > Looking at the Take Command website and Googling about it I can find
> > no reference to Take Command as a Terminal emulator *anywhere*. I am
> > guessing it has very basic, if any, capabilities at all. Thus it
> > probably doesn't heed any *':set columns=*' or other vim terminal
> > commands.
> >
> > On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 12:32:07 PM UTC-6 Ed Blackman wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 09:53:12AM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote:
> > > On Sa, 17 Jun 2023, Robert Solomon wrote:
> > > > Windows 10
> > > >
> > > > My quick testing involved me starting take command and using the
> > > > mouse
> > to size the window. Take command shows the window size in the
> > bottom right corner.
> > >
> > > So, can you reproduce the issue using `vim --clean` to disable any
> > > of your usual customizations? What exactly is this `take` command.
> > > Does it reproduce without it?
> > >
> > > What terminal did you use, you said?
> >
> > Take Command is a replacement shell (and maybe a replacement
> > terminal?) for Windows: https://jpsoft.com/products/take-command.html
> >
> > I don't know anything about it, but thought I'd interject to clarify.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Enan
>

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Re: BUG: terminal vim 9.0.1506 x64 window 10

[Enan Ajmain]

On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
Steve Martin  wrote:
> [...]
>
> Using the Windows CMD shell under the old CMD terminal, whatever that
> is called

It's Console Host or Conhost in short.

> Personally I use bash and Windows Terminal when I'm on Windows. It
> has features I prefer and I don't usually resize my work space after
> I've got set up. Will Microsoft fix their issues. Not gonna hold my
> breath.

I assume by "Microsoft" and "their issue" you mean the issue in Conhost.
If so, then yeah, it's not gonna get fixed.  There are compatibility
reasons for that (which I don't care about), but to circumvent this the
team decided to overhaul Conhost and replace it with the new Terminal.
It'll be the default in the next . . . I donno, year perhaps?  Decade?

And just to clarify, resizing MS Terminal window after launching Vim
doesn't cause any problem.  MS Terminal should behave like a Linux
terminal emulator.  It advertizes itself as supporting all xterm
features.  Well, perhaps not all, but most of the oft-used ones.

> In the end there are a lot of choices out there, which can be both
> good and bad.

Before MS Terminal, Wezterm was the best choice.  Before that, Cmder and
ConEmu.  And the problem with Mintty is that it's not independent.  The
reason it behaves so like a Linux terminal is because it's built with
Cygwin or Cygwin-like shells (MSys, git-bash, etc.) in mind.  You can't
run Command Prompt or PowerShell on it.  You can't even run Win32
version of Vim on it.  You'll need a Vim built with Cygwin.  That's an
extra hassle in my opinion.

> __
>
> Should there be smoke coming out of my CPU?
>
> On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 1:47:23 AM UTC-6 Steve Martin wrote:
>
> Looking at the Take Command website and Googling about it I can find
> no reference to Take Command as a Terminal emulator *anywhere*. I am
> guessing it has very basic, if any, capabilities at all. Thus it
> probably doesn't heed any *':set columns=*' or other vim terminal
> commands.
>
> On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 12:32:07 PM UTC-6 Ed Blackman wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 09:53:12AM +0200, Christian Brabandt wrote:
> > On Sa, 17 Jun 2023, Robert Solomon wrote:
> > > Windows 10
> > >
> > > My quick testing involved me starting take command and using the
> > > mouse
> to size the window.   Take command shows the window size in the
> bottom right corner.
> >
> > So, can you reproduce the issue using `vim --clean` to disable any
> > of your usual customizations? What exactly is this `take` command.
> > Does it reproduce without it?
> >
> > What terminal did you use, you said?
>
> Take Command is a replacement shell (and maybe a replacement
> terminal?) for Windows: https://jpsoft.com/products/take-command.html
>
> I don't know anything about it, but thought I'd interject to clarify.
>



--
Enan

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