RE: Accessible wine tracking app
Guess so—and how sad would that be, LOL! Sandra Reading and writing are the most nourishing forms of meditation anyone has so far found. By reading the writings of the most interesting minds in history, we meditate with our own minds and theirs as well. This to me is a miracle. Kurt Vonnegut From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 1:49 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Accessible wine tracking app Sadly any wine I buy ends up in my stomach before it gets to the cellar! Does that mean I have to buy more? From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of sandrastreeter...@gmail.com <mailto:sandrastreeter...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: Accessible wine tracking app Quoting from a friend who is well-versed in wines: There is a website called: "Cellar Tracker" that people use to record their cellar contents and then post reviews on recently tasted bottles. I don't use it myself, though I think it is a good site. "Seems" fairly accessible at least for reading reviews. Sandra Reading and writing are the most nourishing forms of meditation anyone has so far found. By reading the writings of the most interesting minds in history, we meditate with our own minds and theirs as well. This to me is a miracle. Kurt Vonnegut From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:36 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> Subject: Accessible wine tracking app I would like a way to log and track the different types of wine that I try. Does anyone know of an accessible app for doing this? Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.toma...@gmail.com <mailto:tai.toma...@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer> . -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/012d01d8f907%24a87a6330%24f96f2990%24%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/012d01d8f907%24a87a6330%24f96f2990%24%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer> . -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
RE: Accessible wine tracking app
Sadly any wine I buy ends up in my stomach before it gets to the cellar! Does that mean I have to buy more? From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of sandrastreeter...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Accessible wine tracking app Quoting from a friend who is well-versed in wines: There is a website called: "Cellar Tracker" that people use to record their cellar contents and then post reviews on recently tasted bottles. I don't use it myself, though I think it is a good site. "Seems" fairly accessible at least for reading reviews. Sandra Reading and writing are the most nourishing forms of meditation anyone has so far found. By reading the writings of the most interesting minds in history, we meditate with our own minds and theirs as well. This to me is a miracle. Kurt Vonnegut From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:36 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Accessible wine tracking app I would like a way to log and track the different types of wine that I try. Does anyone know of an accessible app for doing this? Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.toma...@gmail.com<mailto:tai.toma...@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu<mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/012d01d8f907%24a87a6330%24f96f2990%24%40gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/012d01d8f907%24a87a6330%24f96f2990%24%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/DS0PR10MB6245FF16CA69FFF4B1585478C7079%40DS0PR10MB6245.namprd10.prod.outlook.com.
RE: Accessible wine tracking app
Hi Tai, After reading your original post, I did some Google searching and downloaded a couple of iOS apps dealing with wine and wine tracking. You weren’t very specific regarding what you wanted to track and whether you wanted the app to have the capability to scan wine bottles in order to capture information regarding specific wines. My main complaint with most apps is everyone wants your email address in order to set up an account these days and my inbox is already blowing up. I read a couple of articles rating wine apps but they were not done from an accessibility standpoint. I ended up downloading two apps based on the ratings they received from the overall community. They were Vivino and Delectable. Of those two, Vivino was much more accessible. In fact, I was unable to set up an account using the Delectable app and had to use my computer and access their website in order to register an account. Their app also had many unlabeled buttons after I set up my account with the website. I was able to successfully scan a bottle of wine using Vivino but I did not attempt to enter any of my own tracking info since I was unclear what your goals were in that regard. I have not tried Cellar Tracker although while this may sound upside down, I was encouraged by comments saying their interface was not as up-to-date and their rating was only 3.8 versus others. I’m to the point where I’m not as impressed with updated interfaces because older interfaces seemed to depend a lot more on words than pictures. I’m also a bit concerned based on my limited activity today with these apps that they are like so many other things becoming a way for developers to sell more product. I personally think the best way to track anything these days is to do so with an Excel spreadsheet. Granted, you can’t capture any information by scanning a bottle of wine using Excel but perhaps if you find an app that captures that info for you, you can copy and paste what you want to track into Excel. I might give Cellar Tracker a try too but I’ll be curious to hear other comments from you regarding your experience with it as well as what specifically you wish to track with a wine app. Alan Lemly From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 11:27 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Accessible wine tracking app Thanks so much. I will give this one a try. Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.toma...@gmail.com <mailto:tai.toma...@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. On Nov 15, 2022, at 12:05 PM, Richard Turner mailto:richardr_tur...@comcast.net> > wrote: Well, I am interested in this as well. So, in looking for apps to do this, I discovered that Cellar Tracker has an iOS app now. It requires internet access, but looks to be pretty accessible. I just set it up this morning and haven’t added any wines yet, but it looks worth exploring. To do anything of substance, you need a free account which is just your name and email address, a nick name/handle and a password. You can pay for an account if you want automatic evaluations of your wines … not for me. I am a private person, so I went into the privacy settings in the account settings and with some tedium, was able to have it set so no one can see my profile or cellar. That way it is a completely private app other than any tasting notes which are public, but I don’t care about that. I pretty much ignore tasting notes as taste is highly subjective. For example, our local wine shop that I really like dealing with has an owner who strongly dislikes chardonnay wines with lots of oak and vanilla. My wife and I love those wines, which are harder and harder to find. In any case, I suggest checking out the Cellar Tracker app and reading the very lengthy description in the app store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cellartracker/id893759800 Later, Richard, USA. “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” -- Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe My web site: <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of sandrastreeter...@gmail.com <mailto:sandrastreeter...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: Accessible wine tracking app Quoting from a friend who is well-versed in wines: There is a website called: "Cellar Tracker" that people use to record their cellar contents and then post reviews on recently tasted bottles. I don't use it myself, though I think it is a good site. "Seems" fairly accessible at least for reading reviews. Sandra Reading and wri
Re: Accessible wine tracking app
Thanks so much. I will give this one a try.Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A.Email: tai.toma...@gmail.comSent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors.On Nov 15, 2022, at 12:05 PM, Richard Turner wrote:Well, I am interested in this as well.So, in looking for apps to do this, I discovered that Cellar Tracker has an iOS app now. It requires internet access, but looks to be pretty accessible. I just set it up this morning and haven’t added any wines yet, but it looks worth exploring.To do anything of substance, you need a free account which is just your name and email address, a nick name/handle and a password.You can pay for an account if you want automatic evaluations of your wines … not for me.I am a private person, so I went into the privacy settings in the account settings and with some tedium, was able to have it set so no one can see my profile or cellar.That way it is a completely private app other than any tasting notes which are public, but I don’t care about that.I pretty much ignore tasting notes as taste is highly subjective. For example, our local wine shop that I really like dealing with has an owner who strongly dislikes chardonnay wines with lots of oak and vanilla. My wife and I love those wines, which are harder and harder to find. In any case, I suggest checking out the Cellar Tracker app and reading the very lengthy description in the app store:https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cellartracker/id893759800 Later, Richard, USA.“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” -- Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe My web site: https://www.turner42.com From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of sandrastreeter...@gmail.comSent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7:34 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: Accessible wine tracking app Quoting from a friend who is well-versed in wines: There is a website called: "Cellar Tracker" that people use to record their cellar contents and then post reviews on recently tasted bottles. I don't use it myself, though I think it is a good site. "Seems" fairly accessible at least for reading reviews. Sandra Reading and writing are the most nourishing forms of meditation anyone has so far found. By reading the writings of the most interesting minds in history, we meditate with our own minds and theirs as well. This to me is a miracle. Kurt Vonnegut From: viphone@googlegroups.com <viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Tai TomasiSent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:36 AMTo: viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: Accessible wine tracking app I would like a way to log and track the different types of wine that I try. Does anyone know of an accessible app for doing this?Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A.Email: tai.toma...@gmail.comSent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors.-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com.-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/012d01d8f907%24a87a6330%24f96f2990%24%40gmail.com. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
RE: Accessible wine tracking app
Well, I am interested in this as well. So, in looking for apps to do this, I discovered that Cellar Tracker has an iOS app now. It requires internet access, but looks to be pretty accessible. I just set it up this morning and haven’t added any wines yet, but it looks worth exploring. To do anything of substance, you need a free account which is just your name and email address, a nick name/handle and a password. You can pay for an account if you want automatic evaluations of your wines … not for me. I am a private person, so I went into the privacy settings in the account settings and with some tedium, was able to have it set so no one can see my profile or cellar. That way it is a completely private app other than any tasting notes which are public, but I don’t care about that. I pretty much ignore tasting notes as taste is highly subjective. For example, our local wine shop that I really like dealing with has an owner who strongly dislikes chardonnay wines with lots of oak and vanilla. My wife and I love those wines, which are harder and harder to find. In any case, I suggest checking out the Cellar Tracker app and reading the very lengthy description in the app store: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cellartracker/id893759800 Later, Richard, USA. “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” -- Jane Wagner from The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe My web site: <https://www.turner42.com> https://www.turner42.com From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of sandrastreeter...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Accessible wine tracking app Quoting from a friend who is well-versed in wines: There is a website called: "Cellar Tracker" that people use to record their cellar contents and then post reviews on recently tasted bottles. I don't use it myself, though I think it is a good site. "Seems" fairly accessible at least for reading reviews. Sandra Reading and writing are the most nourishing forms of meditation anyone has so far found. By reading the writings of the most interesting minds in history, we meditate with our own minds and theirs as well. This to me is a miracle. Kurt Vonnegut From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:36 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> Subject: Accessible wine tracking app I would like a way to log and track the different types of wine that I try. Does anyone know of an accessible app for doing this? Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.toma...@gmail.com <mailto:tai.toma...@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer> . -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:
RE: Accessible wine tracking app
Quoting from a friend who is well-versed in wines: There is a website called: "Cellar Tracker" that people use to record their cellar contents and then post reviews on recently tasted bottles. I don't use it myself, though I think it is a good site. "Seems" fairly accessible at least for reading reviews. Sandra Reading and writing are the most nourishing forms of meditation anyone has so far found. By reading the writings of the most interesting minds in history, we meditate with our own minds and theirs as well. This to me is a miracle. Kurt Vonnegut From: viphone@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 9:36 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Accessible wine tracking app I would like a way to log and track the different types of wine that I try. Does anyone know of an accessible app for doing this? Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.toma...@gmail.com <mailto:tai.toma...@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> . Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer> . -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/012d01d8f907%24a87a6330%24f96f2990%24%40gmail.com.
Accessible wine tracking app
I would like a way to log and track the different types of wine that I try. Does anyone know of an accessible app for doing this? Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A. Email: tai.toma...@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor. Mark can be reached at: mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/607062FE-F183-4382-B6F9-5BC39FB0A983%40gmail.com.