Re: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh)
The dreaded 202 convergence error, If you need help contact me off list. Best Wishes; Thomas Knox From: pit...@williams-net.com To: volt-nuts@febo.com Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 14:35:42 -0400 Subject: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh) I know that HP will (gladly?) take your sick 3458 and bring it up to current specs, followed by a calibration. Since my sick one is at engineering level 2 or 3.something, it must be like it was built in 1989 - the dates on some components. Should I try to do any troubleshooting, or just send it to HP? Will they upgrade the current (aged and pretty much not drifting) boards? Or do they take a good board from their stock and replace the current board with one that may be new and 'drifty'? I have read here that there are some unlisted upgrades that they do, also. The RAM batteries will be replaced also, right? The biggest positive I see is the ability to go on the service plan and never have to worry about a failure again after the 3458 is brought up to current standards. Willy ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh)
I know that HP will (gladly?) take your sick 3458 and bring it up to current specs, followed by a calibration. Since my sick one is at engineering level 2 or 3.something, it must be like it was built in 1989 - the dates on some components. Should I try to do any troubleshooting, or just send it to HP? Hi, agilent simply replaces boards, but will not desolder and replace components. Therefore, they will definitely replace the processor board completely (several hundred $), but then the latest firmware 9 will be inside. Additionally, a new calibration will have to be paid (+ several hundred $). Alternatively, simply replace the 3 NVRAMs (DALLAS/maxim or digikey, 50$), and the 6 EPROMs for firmware 9 (agilent, 180$), if you are able to copy the CAL RAM and/or to recalibrate on your own. And on the old processor board you can upgrade opt. 01 by DIY (10$), instead of agilent (+ several 100 $). Another fellow volt-nuts did that on a 1989 unit, came up fresh like a daisy. I.e. no need for further replacement of any other boards. @Tom Knox: Would you mind sharing your knowledge about error 202 here on that list, instead? THX. Frank ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] 3458a RAM batteries - longer life if unit is continually powered?
Only on the newer (AB AD) Dallas (Maxim) parts. All the old ones (Y) do not have that feature. Tom M. - Original Message - From: Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] 3458a RAM batteries - longer life if unit is continually powered? Date Codes can be misleading because most of this style of chip does not connect to the battery until the first power up cycle. So evl Thomas Knox Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:33:17 +0100 From: frank.stellm...@freenet.de To: volt-nuts@febo.com Subject: [volt-nuts] 3458a RAM batteries - longer life if unit is continually powered? Hi, the DALLAS datasheet specifies 10 years data retention. Quite obviously, that's the unpowered time. That time includes self discharge and RAM sustaining currents. self discharge and RAM supply current will be of the same order, i.e. 1µA, I assume from experience. And I assume also, that those currents will vary over samples, i.e. over samples of battery and RAM. Recently, there was the case, where the CAL RAM was still alive after 24 years (instrument vintage 1989, same DALLAS date code!), but with unknown powering history. Additionally, a typical 10 years of lifetime is given also for those batteries. Therefore, in practise there will be no pronounced difference between powered / unpowered state. On the other hand, DALLAS implemented an electronic seal, so that the RAM inside the package is initially powered only after first power up. But there's no parameter in the datasheet, specifying data retention according to date code or to initial power up. The waste of energy just to extend the batteries lifetime, does not pay off. On the contrary, the MTBF time of the instrument will be consumed, the display will get bad, and here in Germany, this energy consumption would cost a fortune (meanwhile: 25+ Cents / kWh, crazy). Yes, as long the instrument is powered, the CAL RAM will not lose its content.. but what about unexpected power outages? If you save the CAL RAM and repogram a fresh one after failure, there's no need to send it to agilent. No, not any RAM error needs recalibration. Those error messages are not documented. So I've scanned the text fragments in the firmware file: RAM TEST 1 RAM TEST 2 probably refer to either to the configuration RAMs (2x32kB), andthe CAL RAM (8kB). Eror messages are: NONVOLATILE RAM HiGH /LOW CAL RAM FAILURE and known ones from other users: RAM TEST 1 HIGH / LOW So I assume, that a real failure of the cal constants only apply on message: CAL RAM FAILURE and perhaps RAM TEST 2 , as RAM TEST 1 should refer to the configuration RAMs only, HIGH to the high byte RAM, LOW to the low byte RAM. Errors of the cal RAM will manifest in additional ACAL or CAL failures. Frank ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh)
Hi, What do you mean by DIY about the upgrade to opt 01 ? thanks From: Frank Stellmach frank.stellm...@freenet.de To: volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:54 PM Subject: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh) I know that HP will (gladly?) take your sick 3458 and bring it up to current specs, followed by a calibration. Since my sick one is at engineering level 2 or 3.something, it must be like it was built in 1989 - the dates on some components. Should I try to do any troubleshooting, or just send it to HP? Hi, agilent simply replaces boards, but will not desolder and replace components. Therefore, they will definitely replace the processor board completely (several hundred $), but then the latest firmware 9 will be inside. Additionally, a new calibration will have to be paid (+ several hundred $). Alternatively, simply replace the 3 NVRAMs (DALLAS/maxim or digikey, 50$), and the 6 EPROMs for firmware 9 (agilent, 180$), if you are able to copy the CAL RAM and/or to recalibrate on your own. And on the old processor board you can upgrade opt. 01 by DIY (10$), instead of agilent (+ several 100 $). Another fellow volt-nuts did that on a 1989 unit, came up fresh like a daisy. I.e. no need for further replacement of any other boards. @Tom Knox: Would you mind sharing your knowledge about error 202 here on that list, instead? THX. Frank ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh)
Willy, I would encourage you to call Gary Bierman at Agilent/Keysight, Loveland, CO, and ask him your questions. He is very easy to talk to and open to any question or thought about how to proceed. IMO, he takes a personal interest in these instruments and wants to make them the best that HP/Agilent/Keysight can produce. From my conversations with him, they prefer to do component level repair, not assembly level repair, and take advantage of all the 'aging' that has occurred over the years. Obviously, if there is something that is destroyed, they will do an assembly replacement, not component level repair. If you opt for their 'Repair Per Incident', at $2740.46, they will bring it up to 'spec', provide the 'Agilent Cal' and return it to you, eligible for their Repair Agreement at $178.68 per year, with a discount available for muti-year agreements, up to 5 when I did that. I don't know if that would include compliance with all Service Notes or not but I'm sure Gary can answer that question. They do not routinely replace the Dallas chips but, if they have failed, they will be replaced. If you get the Repair Agreement and the Dallas chips subsequently fail, they will replace them and provide a fresh Agilent Cal, at no charge (except probably for shipping) except for the annual rate of $178.68 that you would have already paid. It is easy to remove the Dallas chips and install sockets. You can read the chips, archive the data, then program a new chip and install it. Just don't try to read the chip when it is still warm from the removal process. Trust me on this. :^). I don't know about the firmware upgrade but, again, Gary Bierman can answer that question. One thing I was wondering about recently is whether it is possible to upgrade the 'inguard' firmware to version 2 or if it has to be done at Agilent. The 'outguard' firmware is upgradeable by removing and replacing the EPROM (or six EPROM's, depending on which version of A5 you have) with a new one (or set) from Agilent. The only thing you need to achieve in order to qualify for eligibility for the Repair Agreement is to send the meter in and have it able to be Cal'd. If it passes their calibration process, then it is 'up to spec' and is eligible for their Repair Agreement, as I understand it. However, I defer to Gary Bierman regarding all of this. You can't go wrong calling him and seeing what he has to say. My guess is that he will be able to make a recommendation to you about how to proceed and be able to give you some insight into what the problem is and how to resolve it. Depending on what the issues are, it might be easier/cheaper to fix it yourself or return it to Agilent. Others on the list have great experience with these DMM's and I'm sure will provide their insight as well. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of new Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 1:36 PM To: volt-nuts@febo.com Subject: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh) I know that HP will (gladly?) take your sick 3458 and bring it up to current specs, followed by a calibration. Since my sick one is at engineering level 2 or 3.something, it must be like it was built in 1989 - the dates on some components. Should I try to do any troubleshooting, or just send it to HP? Will they upgrade the current (aged and pretty much not drifting) boards? Or do they take a good board from their stock and replace the current board with one that may be new and 'drifty'? I have read here that there are some unlisted upgrades that they do, also. The RAM batteries will be replaced also, right? The biggest positive I see is the ability to go on the service plan and never have to worry about a failure again after the 3458 is brought up to current standards. Willy ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[volt-nuts] Fluke 515A Batteries Leaked
I have aquired an Fluke 515A calibrator. The calibrator appears to work OK. Internal inspection reveals the nicad battery pack has leaked. It has outgassed and there is minor corrosion on some of the internal aluminum chassis. The PC board appears to be OK. What advise is available for cleaning this and what type of cleaners would one use ? Thanks. Tony. FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh)
Hi, I hate to jump into the middle of this as I haven't been following it but I have had about twenty 3458As go thru my ham shack. (a real sickness) Seven had the error 202 Slave Convergence and all were bad A3 boards. (A/D Converter I ngua rd Logic ) Not saying this is always the case but swapping in a good A3 fixed all seven of my 202 errs. Jeff - Original Message - From: Frank Stellmach frank.stellm...@freenet.de To: volt-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:54:36 PM Subject: [volt-nuts] 3458a with 202: Slave Test Convergence (sigh) I know that HP will (gladly?) take your sick 3458 and bring it up to current specs, followed by a calibration. Since my sick one is at engineering level 2 or 3.something, it must be like it was built in 1989 - the dates on some components. Should I try to do any troubleshooting, or just send it to HP? Hi, agilent simply replaces boards, but will not desolder and replace components. Therefore, they will definitely replace the processor board completely (several hundred $), but then the latest firmware 9 will be inside. Additionally, a new calibration will have to be paid (+ several hundred $). Alternatively, simply replace the 3 NVRAMs (DALLAS/maxim or digikey, 50$), and the 6 EPROMs for firmware 9 (agilent, 180$), if you are able to copy the CAL RAM and/or to recalibrate on your own. And on the old processor board you can upgrade opt. 01 by DIY (10$), instead of agilent (+ several 100 $). Another fellow volt-nuts did that on a 1989 unit, came up fresh like a daisy. I.e. no need for further replacement of any other boards. @Tom Knox: Would you mind sharing your knowledge about error 202 here on that list, instead? THX. Frank ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [volt-nuts] 3458A RAM batteries
My 3458A tested with marginal RAM when I sent it to Loveland for cal. Gary advised that I buy the replacement RAM board which uses RAM chips that have replaceable batteries (? could they be super caps?) that snap onto the tops of the chips. They sent the meter back to me with no charge other than for shipping. I bought the upgrade board and new cable which is needed because the new board is shorter than the old style, and the old cable won't reach. Then I sent it back to Loveland for cal. I think the RAM board was around $450 -- old memory in failing RAM chips in head bad batteries there too. Dick Moore ___ volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts and follow the instructions there.
