RE: OT: The will of God
Title: RE: OT: The will of God Horace Heffner replied At 11:14 AM 3/24/5, thomas malloy wrote: The idea that Yehovah, and Allah are the same entity is pure nonsense. Ditto for the idea that Shariah is a substitute for Torah. I thought I'd made the case adequately, but apparently I didn't. You completely failed to address the issue and you seem to not even understand the point. Jews and Christians worship the god of Abraham. Islamists worship the god of Abraham. If it is the same Abraham it is the same god. You believe what you want to believe. I've pointed out that the two entities have; different names, different legal systems, and the train of human thought that they produced bore different fruit. If you still believe that they are the same entity, you have blinded yourself to what is obvious. So I'll try again. You might try addressing the premises or the logic which derives the conclusion. The difference lies in the words and thus opinions of men, not in the two gods. Peace between these world factions must finally be won in the hearts of humanity, not in the interpretation of scripture. More nonsense, why are there two world views? Two gods perhaps? If you seek differences you always find them. If you seek peace the road lies through what we share in common. Jews and Christians worship the god of Abraham. Islamists worship the god of Abraham. If it is the same Abraham it is the same god. There is only one way in which peace can be achieved when one system, or group of people, is sworn to destroy the other. One of us has to destroy the other. When civilized men are unwilling to do what needs to be done in order to maintain their existence, they will be replaced by uncivilized men, who are willing to do what needs to be done. I believe that this quote is from Victor Davis Hanson, frequent guest on the Hugh Hewitt Show. If you doubt that Islam is sworn to destroy us, I'm happy to document this assertion. I have previously mentioned Prophet of Doom, and there are others, including Whallet Shumblot, a Moslem convert who will tell you the same thing. Terry Blanton posted; I think you might find this of interest: There are certain striking similarities between the Hindu god Brahma and his consort Saraisvati, and the Jewish Abraham and Sarai, that are more than mere coincidences. There is a general solution. If G-d is Omnipresent, there is but One by exclusion; and,all monotheistic religions are worshiping the same G-d by definition. The story tells about two super human entities who are in a life and death struggle. One is bent on destroying as many humans as he can. He uses counterfeits in order to deceive men. I don't understand how you can conclude what you have in the above paragraph, you have to blind yourself to what is obvious. This in no way detracts from their being an omnipresent G-d. It's just that he has given us free will, to either serve him, or go our own way. like sheep. Steven Lawrence posted; was, was Abraham. He existed. (Whether he called himself Abraham or the name was altered in a scribal error is, of course, not determinable, and also somewhat irrelevant IMHO.) Abraham's God was, by definition and scribal errors notwithstanding, Yhwh. I would refer to by previous postings about the Bible Code. I'm reading Cracking the Bible Code by Jeffery Satinover. He mentions that the Israeli's used Code to predict future events. The book was written before the Helitical (Legal) degree forbidding them (religious Jews) from saying so. If you question the statistical anomaly that the existence of the Codes represents, I have an ebook that addresses the subject. The existence of the Codes, and their making accurate predictions, is, IMHO, evidence of the Book's divine authorship. In addition, and far more subjectively, I would assert that the very strange incident of Melchizidek provides strong internal evidence for the historical authenticity of at least some of the stories of Abraham. Melshizidek means something like prince of righteousness, He had no physical lineage, and lived in what is now Jerusalem. In our opinion, (Rabbi, and mine) he is a picture of the coming Messiah. G-d in human form. The name of Bethel, which has some significance in Jewish history, is also interesting: It means house of G-d. which included Baal. which means the master. YHVH doesn't want to be our master, he wants to be our father, and husband. We submit to him because we love him. Is it possible that Yhwh was connected in some way with the same pantheon? The word Elohiem is plural and it is clear from both the Torah, and the Book of Enoch, and the holy Zohar that the G-d head has a plurality, kind of like multiple personality. Furthermore, entities called called the sons of the elohim had sex with the daughters of men. This is where the Nepthilim came from. They were polluted by sin, and had at least some of the powers of G-d, the Hebrew word shum is translated in the KJV of the
Re: OT: The will of God
Merlyn replied; Fundamentalists always cite that God influenced those keepers of knowledge so that the translation is just as accurate as the original, but I have problems believing that. History abounds with examples of men misinterpreting scripture to justify heinous acts. That's why it's important to learn to read Hebrew. We know that the text has come down to us unchanged because Bible Code works. It's not just that it's there, but it has accurately predicted events. --- Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Merlyn wrote: As for prophecy, that's all in the interpretation, True, but Evangelical Christians, who approach the Bible as inerrorant, and literal have by in large come to the same conclusions This verse NAMES CYRUS, specifically, and designates him the instrument to be used in ending the Exile. Cyrus was born perhaps 150 years after Isaiah died. No way this was just a lucky guess!! And it's not open to much interpretation. Alexander the Great was so impressed with the prophecies concerning him that he set up a commission to translate the Hebrew version into Greek.
Re: OT: The will of God (key points and loose ends)
- Original Message - From: Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: Re: OT: The will of God Lucifer is, of course, not exactly big on humankind -- according to the Testament of Moses he is horribly jealous of Adam's place in the universe and hence detests all humans. It is Lucifer's goal to destroy the human race. To do this he must separate us from our Creator God and must prevent our reconciliation with God by discrediting our our only means of reconciliation, Jesus Christ, God the Son. To do that he must prevent or destroy our faith. Jesus, the myth, can't save you. Jesus, the good man, can't save you. Jesus, the teacher, can't save you. Jesus, the prophet, can't save you. Only Jesus, God in the flesh, has the power to save you, and then only if you truly believe He is who He said He was. One of Lucifer's two most successful strategies is to start false religions. He's been doing it for thousands of years and it is still happening today. Some exclude Jesus entirely, but the exclusion of Jesus is not necessary. Just portray Jesus as less than God and the scam is a success. The other key strategy is to convince humans that he (Lucifer) doesn't even exist. We wouldn't be on guard against someone who does not exist, would we? Jeff
Re: OT: The will of God (key points and loose ends)
--- revtec [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucifer is Lucifer is not Satan. There is but one reference to Lucifer in the bible. Do you know it and to what it refers? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: OT: The will of God
At 2:45 AM 3/26/5, thomas malloy wrote: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed Horace Heffner replied At 11:14 AM 3/24/5, thomas malloy wrote: The idea that Yehovah, and Allah are the same entity is pure nonsense. Ditto for the idea that Shariah is a substitute for Torah. I thought I'd made the case adequately, but apparently I didn't. You completely failed to address the issue and you seem to not even understand the point. Jews and Christians worship the god of Abraham. Islamists worship the god of Abraham. If it is the same Abraham it is the same god. You believe what you want to believe. I have suggested two propositions and a conclusion. These things are not a matter of my faith or what I believe. What matters is the general doctrine of Christians, Jews, and Moslems concerning Abraham and his one god. I've pointed out that the two entities have; different names, different legal systems, and the train of human thought that they produced bore different fruit. If you still believe that they are the same entity, you have blinded yourself to what is obvious. Once again you have failed to address either the propositions or the logic. Instead you again frame the problem as a matter of personal faith and attack the conclusion on the basis of what men have done in the interim. [snip] There is only one way in which peace can be achieved when one system, or group of people, is sworn to destroy the other. One of us has to destroy the other. When civilized men are unwilling to do what needs to be done in order to maintain their existence, they will be replaced by uncivilized men, who are willing to do what needs to be done. I believe that this quote is from Victor Davis Hanson, frequent guest on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Genocide can not be the only means to peace. If anything in this world is utterly evil, genocide has to be at the top of the list. Regards, Horace Heffner
Re: OT: The will of God
The my God is better than your God approach to religion disgusts and frightens me. This use of God is only a thin disguise used by one group to justify taking life, liberty, and property from another group. For example, the white race thought they had the God given right to enslave the blacks and the Germans thought they had the God given right to kill the Jews and other people, to provide only some recent examples. The use of a god justification does not excuse the actions. This attitude is so alien to the basic teachings of all religions that it is a wonder that a sane person would have the nerve to make such an argument. Christ, as well as every other spokesman of God, taught us to treat others as you would treat ourselves. This is not limited only to those people who worship our idea of God, an idea I might add that changes with time. Christians are taught that we are all made in the image of God. This concept is not applied only to Christians. We are all part of God, we are all trying to make sense of a confused message, and we all are expected to give each other a chance to learn the message in our own way. Killing or condemning other people who fail to learn our lesson or share our limited beliefs is not permitted. When hate and killing is motivated and justified by assuming that the action is God's wish, civilization breaks down and countries are destroyed. How often must these events be repeated before people learn that this approach leads to disaster. If evil exists in the would, this attitude must be at the top of the list. Ed Horace Heffner wrote: At 2:45 AM 3/26/5, thomas malloy wrote: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed Horace Heffner replied At 11:14 AM 3/24/5, thomas malloy wrote: The idea that Yehovah, and Allah are the same entity is pure nonsense. Ditto for the idea that Shariah is a substitute for Torah. I thought I'd made the case adequately, but apparently I didn't. You completely failed to address the issue and you seem to not even understand the point. Jews and Christians worship the god of Abraham. Islamists worship the god of Abraham. If it is the same Abraham it is the same god. You believe what you want to believe. I have suggested two propositions and a conclusion. These things are not a matter of my faith or what I believe. What matters is the general doctrine of Christians, Jews, and Moslems concerning Abraham and his one god. I've pointed out that the two entities have; different names, different legal systems, and the train of human thought that they produced bore different fruit. If you still believe that they are the same entity, you have blinded yourself to what is obvious. Once again you have failed to address either the propositions or the logic. Instead you again frame the problem as a matter of personal faith and attack the conclusion on the basis of what men have done in the interim. [snip] There is only one way in which peace can be achieved when one system, or group of people, is sworn to destroy the other. One of us has to destroy the other. When civilized men are unwilling to do what needs to be done in order to maintain their existence, they will be replaced by uncivilized men, who are willing to do what needs to be done. I believe that this quote is from Victor Davis Hanson, frequent guest on the Hugh Hewitt Show. Genocide can not be the only means to peace. If anything in this world is utterly evil, genocide has to be at the top of the list. Regards, Horace Heffner
FW: WHAT'S NEW Friday, March 25, 2005
From: What's New [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Akira Kawasaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 3/25/2005 11:44:16 AM Subject: WHAT'S NEW Friday, March 25, 2005 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 25 Mar 05 Washington, DC 1. FREEDOM ELEMENT: DO YOU KNOW HOW EASY IT IS TO SELL BALONEY? In his 2003 State-of-the-Union address, President Bush called for building a Freedom Car, powered by hydrogen and pollution free http://www.aps.org/WN/WN03/wn013103.cfm. Baloney, but people didn't ask where the hydrogen will come from. They asked if it's safe. Hey, it's fuel -- fuel burns. However, Dr. Addison Bain insists that in the 1937 Hindenburg disaster, it was the paint that burned, and compared it to rocket fuel. More baloney, but guess who bought it http://www.aps.org/apsnews/0700/070004.cfm? However, A.J. Dessler, D.E. Overs and W.H. Appleby found the burn rate of an actual piece of Hindenburg fabric to be thousands of times too slow. The fire consumed the Hindenburg in 34 seconds. If the 800 foot-long craft was painted with solid rocket fuel, it would have taken 12 hours to burn end to end. Dessler is a PhD physicist (Duke), 26 years as Professor of Space Physics and Astronomy at Rice (15 years as Dept Chair), directed the NASA Marshall Space Sciences Lab (4 years), and is Sr. Scientist at Univ of Arizona, Lunar and Planetary Lab. What about Dr. Bain? 2. DIPLOMA MILLS: MAYBE THEY CAN GET TOGETHER FOR CLASS REUNIONS. In his memoir, The Freedom Element: Living with Hydrogen, Doctor Bain says he is a former manager of hydrogen programs at Kennedy Space Center, but what is he a doctor of? He writes of being teary-eyed at finally becoming a PhD, but nowhere mentions his alma mater. Even the bio on the jacket of his book gave no clue. A Google search turned up nothing after Flathead High School in Montana. Someone suggested we try California Coast University, a distance-learning university in Santa Ana. That's where Lynn Ianni, the therapist for The Swan on Fox Television, became Doctor Ianni in 1998. Although CCU has no campus, that's not a problem; it has no courses. There, in the same graduating class with Dr. Ianni, getting a Management PhD, was Dr. Addison Bain. Now look at me, would you? Here I am getting all teary-eyed too. 3. SCIENCE BY INTIMIDATION: DOES BEING RIGHT COUNT FOR NOTHING? The 2003 IMAX film Volcanoes of the Deep Sea, sponsored by NSF and Rutgers, would seem to be just the sort of documentary that science centers thrive on. Not exactly. It was turned down by a dozen Science Centers, mostly in the South, because of a few brief references to evolution. There goes the profit margin. The result is that IMAX films just aren't made if the science might offend the religious right. It's worse in schools. Even if there is no prohibition on teaching evolution, teachers leave it out rather than listen to all the complaints. In the 1925 Scopes trial, Clarence Darrow said, John Scopes isn't on trial, civilization is on trial. It still is. And it's losing. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.aps.org/WN To subscribe, send a blank e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
In reply to Nick Palmer's message of Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:55:33 -: Hi, [snip] Robin van Spaandonk wrote:- Note that the people at http://www.dolphinaci.com/technology/technology.html are already getting 90+ mpg in some tests, and outperforming the Prius in all tests, and all they have done is somewhat modify a conventional engine Be careful about believing these results from one of the Joseph LaStella stable of companies... You may be correct. The only independent results I could find were from http://www.challengebibendum.com/challenge/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=26lang=EN (for 2001) - click on Official Results Prototypes at the bottom of the page. The vehicle in question is the first entry in the table. It appears to have scored badly in most categories, including efficiency. BTW I managed to track down the meaning of the scores, in a PDF document from the 2003 event see http://servicesv2.webmichelin.com/frontnews/servlet/GetElement?elementCode=11331 wherein a D for fuel efficiency implies 21 mpg for small cars. I assume this also applies to the 2001 results. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk All SPAM goes in the trash unread.
Re: OT: The will of God (key points and loose ends)
At 6:43 AM 3/26/5, Terry Blanton wrote: Lucifer is not Satan. There is but one reference to Lucifer in the bible. Do you know it and to what it refers? Perhaps you refer to Is 14:12: How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the Dawn! You have been cast down to earth, you who once laid low the nations! Is 14:12 is also translated as: How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground - mighty though you once were against the nations of the world. This is a metaphorical reference by Isaiah likening the King of Bayblon to Helal ben Shahar, the day star, son of dawn, who in Canaanite myth wanted to be chief god but was hurled down to earth instead. Uncanny the relvance and possible future relevance of Isaiah to modern times. Regards, Horace Heffner
Vanity of vanities....
Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Truer words were never spoken, it seems to me as of late. Indeed it seems to me that we live in a world of nothing but hatred and negativity, where no one believes in anything greater than what has gone before and that we are on a continuing Archimedian spiral into the deepest alcoves of desperation. And from my point of view, ultimately, to utter destruction. Maybe this will sound farcical or ridiculous, but it is true, and I feel it with my entire being and soul, nevertheless here it is: I love humanity to no end, and wish I could somehow do whatever was necessary to make the world the great place I was told in my childhood that it eventually could become. I love the world so bad it hurts, and as it is said, there is a fine line between both love and hate, and genius and insanity. The first two Ive known well. The genius part, well, I dont know, but I have to wonder if I am losing my mind slowly because of all this happening around me. Someone once said that if you believe you are going crazy, you arent. I dont know if that is true. So heres a few things to think about; call them a few of my personal demons. 1. Oil Crash. I dont know if this is real or not. There is so much lying and deception out there, so many people with their own motives that who knows if this is a real problem or not. This includes global warming. If global warming is indeed real, and a threat, then we should do something about it now. And if some put-upon rich people and business moguls get hurt in the process, well, that as they say is life. Development of alternative energy sources which actually WORK needs to be done immediately. If it be cold fusion, space-based solar energy, thermonuclear fusion, or whatever, then let it begin now. Not tomorrow, not when it is affordable and good for the economy, but NOW! If this is NOT real, if the peak oil problem is a fiction, and there is no catastrophe in sight, then of course we should still pursue alternatives with vigor. It would give the nation, and indeed, the world something to due rather than sit around in relative boredom. I believe boredom breeds warfare and unrest. People need obstacles to tackle and things to do, otherwise we wither and become depressed, and ultimately begin to hate each other. If it turns out that global warming is not anywhere near the severity as is proclaimed, then we need to have a serious look at the EPA and its various machinations. And make it a harsh look while we are at it. If it turns out that the oil crisis (real or not) is an engineered method for those in government set to profit from it to increase profits, and for the businessmen behind it to get richer while the rest of us suffer for it, then I am at a loss to suggest a solution. This is a crime that surpasses individual, state or even national level. It is a crime against the human race. For that crime, the punishment, whatever it be, should be fierce and indeed so terribly frightening that no one will ever dare to repeat it again. Maybe that sounds harsh, but how else can it ever be prevented again? 2. Cars. I dont drive an SUV, in fact I dont like them at all, because they have a nice tendency to lose control here in Buffalo, NY, during the snowy season, and careen all over the road. I drive a 1990 Buick Regal, which gets about 20mpg. Not great, but I cant afford a Prius, nor do I want one. They are grotesquely ugly things, made of plastic which is sure not going to win a collision with a larger vehicle, and are extremely expensive to purchase and maintain. No, hybrids are no option for us little guys. And a European car? Forget it, I will never own one. If a ball joint goes out in my car, I can get one for ~$15. In a Mercedes-Benz? ~$250-300 apiece. I kid you not, I am a mechanic who works on European cars all day long. I have seen it, and it is outrageous. Jed, $4000 for a valve job on a Volvo is pretty cheap. Try frying the motor in a late-model Audi. Easy to do, as well: you just dont change the timing belt every 50,000 miles, and the belt will snap, ramming the valves into the tops of the pistons, shredding the motor. Many kilobucks later, you are back on the road. Oh, and how much does it cost to replace the timing belt every 50k? Upwards of $1,200 where I work, which is cheap as I understand it. You have to remove the entire front bumper and clip assembly, radiator, discharge the AC condenser, etc., to get to the timing cover. You literally have to disassemble the entire front end of the car!!! All because some bespectacled idiot who probably never got his hands greasy in his life decided to design a modern engine. I rebuilt the 305 small block in my 1986 Chevrolet Monte Carlo for less than $1,000, and that includes the NEW carburetor, NEW headers, NEW intake manifold, NEW HEI distributor, wires, cap, rotor, plugs, oil, motor mounts, frame pads, chrome air cleaner, chrome valve covers, camshaft, lifters, piston rings (I got
Re: OT: The will of God (key points and loose ends)
--- Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uncanny the relvance and possible future relevance of Isaiah to modern times. Yathink? The PVTs (Prophet Veracity Filters) of the time were quite sharp and steep. I came *this* close . . . __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
Easter
Easter is a holiday date set aside tocelebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I confess that Jesushas comein the flesh, He was crucified to death on the cross, He rose from the dead on the third day andnow sitsin Heaven at the right hand of the Father. I believe His teachings are true and edifying to mankind. His love bestoyed upon us in his word lifts our hearts in joy ,love, peace, and hope. Paul, his servant slavewrote; and be kind to one another, tender hearted and forgiving one another. We are to love God, our Heavenly Father with all our heart, all our soul, all our might, all or mind ,and love our neighbor as ourselves. Man spend a lifetime working out hisbelief systems, testing, evaluating and proving truth. Truth came in the flesh and was crucified by me. My hope is that all will come to a saving knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ all to the glory of God the Father. I cannot tell you how to find your way in this world, I can tell you what wonderful things that God has done for me as a witness and testimony of His unfailing love and grace. I cannot argue religion because I lack debating skills. I have proven my Lord to myself and that is sufficent to me for my life. At 77 years, I have seen much, heard more and know less than when I thought I knew it all. The Vortex group remains a viable site that enriches the mind and provokes thought while allowing diversity. I commend each for their wisdom and tolerance that allows freedom of discussion and thought to be submitted to a candid world. Lets get back to science. Richard Blank Bkgrd.gif
[OT] Re: Easter
What compels you to do this? --- RC Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I confess that Jesus has come in the flesh, __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
