Re: [Vo]:'Super atoms'
In reply to Zachary Jones's message of Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:04:01 -0700: Hi, [snip] Thought the list would be interested in this work on easily- produceable atom clusters: http://www.physorg.com/news134129791.html They claim the principle is old news, but I hadn't heard of the electron shell 'conjugation' they suggest in the article. This may explain something else - the whitegold story. Purported among other things to be superconducting at room temperature. Some of these atoms are going to get pretty heavy. Also the Russian results from http://www.proton21.com.ua/index_en.html might actually contain at least some superatom substances (especially those they claim are far heavier than Uranium). It would be unreasonable to get such atoms when matter is bombarded with high energy electrons, which could easily produce lots of individual atoms that then may recondense into clusters mimicking other elements. Furthermore, they used metals as targets, and this current work seems to imply that conductors are a prerequisite. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:'Super atoms'
In reply to Zachary Jones's message of Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:04:01 -0700: Hi, [snip] Thought the list would be interested in this work on easily- produceable atom clusters: http://www.physorg.com/news134129791.html They claim the principle is old news, but I hadn't heard of the electron shell 'conjugation' they suggest in the article. This may explain something else - the whitegold story. Purported among other things to be superconducting at room temperature. Some of these atoms are going to get pretty heavy. Also the Russian results from http://www.proton21.com.ua/index_en.html might actually contain at least some superatom substances (especially those they claim are far heavier than Uranium). It would be unreasonable to get such atoms when matter is bombarded with high energy electrons, which could easily produce lots of individual atoms that then may recondense into clusters mimicking other elements. Furthermore, they used metals as targets, and this current work seems to imply that conductors are a prerequisite. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:New radio interview with Dr. Mills
Back after WW2 there was a company that rented giant inflatable balloons for parades named giant balloon parades Inc. . Once, during a parade in Houston, the balloon lost it's gas, deflated and covered the crowd in plastic wrap. Their initials GBP have stuck in my mind all these years and I have difficulty keeping the two separate in my thoughts.. GBP and BLP and how long each can keep a balloon in the air. Richard Looking forward to your July 10 article. Krivit wrote, I really like the full BLP article we've got coming. Author is not me (though I edited of course.) Author is someone well known to V. What I like most about it is that, unlike most of the rags, we don't go reply on an opinion poll of science authorities but we get down to the core facts, at least as much as we were able to identify within the scope of this piece.
Re: [Vo]:New radio interview with Dr. Mills
Steve, This morning I noticed that your Blacklight Power article made Google News search. Congrats! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:[OT] Tower 7 Report Due
NIST says the report will be out this month: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7485331.stm
Re: [Vo]:Achieving the Rare and Final Stage of Oil Grief
Terry Blanton wrote: However, looking at my automobile: A gallon of gas contains about 36.7 kWhr of energy. Assuming a mechanical efficiency of about 70% and a thermal efficiency of about 30%, the car would be about 20% efficient providing about 7.3 kWhr. If I get 30 mpg and drive for an hour I consume 2 gal/hr driving at 60 mph or about eight bucks. With an electric car, I need 14.6 kWhr plus the inefficiency of transport of the electric power, figure 80%, or 18.25 kWhr. At 10 cents per kWhr the $8.00 of gasoline is displaced by $1.83 of go juice. And guess what, the power plant pollutes someone else. :-) Yup, it's a slick deal. And the boiler at the power plant is typically a lot cleaner than an ICE as well. (There is an extra hidden cost, though, which is that you must replace the batteries every few years; that tends to even out the operating expenses a bit. EVs still seem to be cheaper to operate, tho.) Attachment (if it comes through) is the back end of my wife's new car. Got it second hand a few months back; it's a conversion which was done for an old gentleman last year, using a 1990 Jetta for the base vehicle. The owner moved into a nursing home, which is why his car went on the market; we found it through Google. Only trouble is the range, which isn't so hot, as it runs on flooded lead acid batteries, like nearly all converted EV's. inline: IMG_4182.back-end-1-small.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Achieving the Rare and Final Stage of Oil Grief
Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: (There is an extra hidden cost, though, which is that you must replace the batteries every few years . . . Not with the plug-in hybrids now in operation, or a normal Prius. The batteries last 200,000 miles. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Achieving the Rare and Final Stage of Oil Grief
Came through fine. I gather that's it's umbilical cord sticking out the trunk. Hows about some more info: 1) DC operation? 2) Voltage? 3) Motor type/rating? 4) Propulsion control? Kewl. On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry Blanton wrote: However, looking at my automobile: A gallon of gas contains about 36.7 kWhr of energy. Assuming a mechanical efficiency of about 70% and a thermal efficiency of about 30%, the car would be about 20% efficient providing about 7.3 kWhr. If I get 30 mpg and drive for an hour I consume 2 gal/hr driving at 60 mph or about eight bucks. With an electric car, I need 14.6 kWhr plus the inefficiency of transport of the electric power, figure 80%, or 18.25 kWhr. At 10 cents per kWhr the $8.00 of gasoline is displaced by $1.83 of go juice. And guess what, the power plant pollutes someone else. :-) Yup, it's a slick deal. And the boiler at the power plant is typically a lot cleaner than an ICE as well. (There is an extra hidden cost, though, which is that you must replace the batteries every few years; that tends to even out the operating expenses a bit. EVs still seem to be cheaper to operate, tho.) Attachment (if it comes through) is the back end of my wife's new car. Got it second hand a few months back; it's a conversion which was done for an old gentleman last year, using a 1990 Jetta for the base vehicle. The owner moved into a nursing home, which is why his car went on the market; we found it through Google. Only trouble is the range, which isn't so hot, as it runs on flooded lead acid batteries, like nearly all converted EV's.
[Vo]:Upcoming Prius with PV cells in roof
There are reports that an upcoming top-of-the-line version of the Prius will have an array of PV cells in the roof. There is a photograph circulating. I hope it will also be a plug-in hybrid. The reports say that the PV array will be used to run the air conditioning. Note that Prius air conditioning uses electric power, not scavenged mechanical power. At first glance, putting the PV array on an electric car seems like a nutty idea. As we have discussed here, the gap between PV output and the energy needed to power the car is so great that this seems like a waste of PV and an unnecessary complication that will cause problems. However, this idea makes sense in the Japanese climate. Small PV arrays are widely used in Japan, especially with older cars. They are mounted on the dashboard. Actually, just tossed on the dash, for two purposes: 1. To trickle charge the battery. They plug into the cigarette lighter. 2. To run those fans that fit in the top of the window. You leave the fan running while the car is parked. They keep the rain out and the car ventilated. (Actually, I think foil reflectors are better but I have not seen many of them in Japan.) My guess is that the purpose of the PV array in the Prius will be to run the air conditioner while the car is parked. That would be a nice feature in southern Japan, and in Georgia, too! Also, when the Prius makes a long stop at a traffic light with the air conditioner running full blast, sometimes the motor does not cut off the way it normally does. It stays on to power the air conditioner. When this happens I usually turn oft the air conditioning to silence the motor. The PV arrays appear to be fairly large, so I suppose they will also recharge the batteries with a significant amount of energy if the cars left for eight hours in bright sunlight. (Assuming the AC is not running.) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Achieving the Rare and Final Stage of Oil Grief
[I was too optimistic first time, and I don't think this went through. I re-jpegged the images a little smaller this time.] Terry Blanton wrote: Came through fine. I gather that's it's umbilical cord sticking out the trunk. Yup. Hows about some more info: 1) DC operation? 2) Voltage? 3) Motor type/rating? 4) Propulsion control? Kewl. It was converted from gasoline to electric by Richard Lane, http://www.revconsultants.com/ , last spring. Richard likes Jettas; they're apparently easy to convert and have beefy enough suspension that they can carry the weight of the batteries without going over the manufacturer's gross vehicle weight. At the same time, they're pretty light, so they perform acceptably afterwards. It's a (nominal) 96 volt system, using 16 6-volt flooded lead-acid batteries (golf cart batteries). It's got a 9 DC motor; I don't recall the rated horsepower, unfortunately. But in any case the limiting factor with regard to power is the batteries. If you grease it, it'll take off pretty respectably, but it'll also pull 300 or 400 amps from the batteries in that case. They're rated by the manufacturer at something like 75 amps max, and though golf cart batteries are pretty rugged it's still better not to fry them: they heat up awfully fast with that kind of drain. So, we try to hold it to no more than 200 amps (keep a close eye on the ammeter while accelerating or going up hill!) and that limits the power to about 19 kW (with charged and happy batteries), which is something like 25 or 26 HP max regardless of engine and controller type. The controller is a Curtis PMC 1231C, rated at 500 amps peak and 225 amps continuous with a battery pack producing from 96 to 144 volts. It's bolted to an absolutely enormous heatsink. It's possible to build EV's which run on higher voltages, and that has advantages; in particular higher volt battery packs require less current from the batteries, as a result of which they may last longer. If you can keep the current down, you also have the option of using marine batteries, which can handle deep cycling but burn up if you draw a couple hundred amps from them for extended periods. However, Richard doesn't like to go much over 100 volts due to the wet, salty conditions which we have all winter in Ottawa -- he feels a 300 or 400 volt system is just asking for trouble in this area. Speaking of the weather, there is an issue with lead-acid, which is that it performs badly when cold. So, this car -- like many which operate in this climate -- has insulated battery boxes with heaters built into them. It's kind of like a diesel that way, but rather than plugging in a block heater to heat the oil, you plug in the box heaters to heat the batteries up before you go out in the winter. The charger is a simple one, which charges them all in series. A fancier arrangement which charges each battery individually would extend the battery life and would give the car better range. Its range right now appears to be about 45 km before the batteries are technically run down, which is when the battery pack voltage drops under about 85 volts while under load. Running it down flat (and then calling a tow truck) will get you substantially more range but it's very bad for the batteries. That was done to this set of batteries once or twice before we bought the car, which is unfortunate; Fred (former owner) got lost and drove 'till the car stopped, waited a while for the batteries to recover, ran 'till it stopped again ... and made about 99 km that way. But these batteries will never do 99 km between charges again, except straight down dropped from orbit. Where are the batteries?, you may well ask; position of the batteries can affect car balance and performance. The answer Richard gave when I asked that was everywhere -- some in front and some in back. When you open the hood or trunk, you don't see bare batteries, though; you see the metal battery boxes, which are lined with about an inch of Styrofoam. (Attached are photos under the hood and in the trunk, if the attachments come through.) The battery box in the trunk is actually on wheels, and runs on a pair of rails; it rolls forward until it touches the back of the back seat in driving position, which leaves some useful trunk space in back of the box. To get at the batteries (to check the temperature or water level) you roll the box all the way to the back and pop off the lid. When it's rolled forward and you're about to drive off, you put a couple of moby pins through the rails to hold it in place while moving: it weighs about 600 pounds, so just letting it rattle back and forth would be a bad plan. (And don't pull the pins out if the car's on a hill...) Let's see, what else is there to say about it? It's got one additional battery: A normal 12 volt automotive battery. A DC-DC converter keeps the 12 volt battery charged. The 12 volt system is used to run the headlights, wipers, horn, cigarette
Re: [Vo]:Upcoming Prius with PV cells in roof
Here's a kit: http://www.solatecllc.com/ and another with a much greater claim: http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=898 But report of a production Prius: http://manufacturing.net/News-Report-Toyota-Prius-Plans-Solar-Powered-AC.aspx The solar panels on the roof of the new Prius model will provide 2 to 5 kilowatts of electricity, the major Japanese business daily said in a report without citing sources. is, IMO, flawed. You don't happen to have a subscription eh? http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/ Terry On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are reports that an upcoming top-of-the-line version of the Prius will have an array of PV cells in the roof. There is a photograph circulating. I hope it will also be a plug-in hybrid. The reports say that the PV array will be used to run the air conditioning. Note that Prius air conditioning uses electric power, not scavenged mechanical power. At first glance, putting the PV array on an electric car seems like a nutty idea. As we have discussed here, the gap between PV output and the energy needed to power the car is so great that this seems like a waste of PV and an unnecessary complication that will cause problems. However, this idea makes sense in the Japanese climate. Small PV arrays are widely used in Japan, especially with older cars. They are mounted on the dashboard. Actually, just tossed on the dash, for two purposes: 1. To trickle charge the battery. They plug into the cigarette lighter. 2. To run those fans that fit in the top of the window. You leave the fan running while the car is parked. They keep the rain out and the car ventilated. (Actually, I think foil reflectors are better but I have not seen many of them in Japan.) My guess is that the purpose of the PV array in the Prius will be to run the air conditioner while the car is parked. That would be a nice feature in southern Japan, and in Georgia, too! Also, when the Prius makes a long stop at a traffic light with the air conditioner running full blast, sometimes the motor does not cut off the way it normally does. It stays on to power the air conditioner. When this happens I usually turn oft the air conditioning to silence the motor. The PV arrays appear to be fairly large, so I suppose they will also recharge the batteries with a significant amount of energy if the cars left for eight hours in bright sunlight. (Assuming the AC is not running.) - Jed
[Vo]:ALTI
ALTI finally makes its big move, but in (2MW test) power management, not vehicles. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:Re:ALTI
ALTI finally makes its big move, but in (2MW test) power management, not vehicles. Oooops! Sorry, I forgot the link: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1742502/ Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:'Super atoms'
This may not be the exact same thing... There is serious work with electron Charged Clusters via Ken Shoulders whom started his investigation of them with physicist Hal Puthoff in Austin Texas. The implications for energy generation are so powerful he has been reluctant to go there without a thorough investigation of containment methodologies. Ken has come a long way with his work. Best bet is to search Google for Ken Shoulders charged clusters. Some of his papers are not online. If you take an interest I can email any by request. Not sure how large they are. Brian -Original Message- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:'Super atoms' In reply to Zachary Jones's message of Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:04:01 -0700: Hi, [snip] Thought the list would be interested in this work on easily- produceable atom clusters: http://www.physorg.com/news134129791.html They claim the principle is old news, but I hadn't heard of the electron shell 'conjugation' they suggest in the article. This may explain something else - the whitegold story. Purported among other things to be superconducting at room temperature. Some of these atoms are going to get pretty heavy. Also the Russian results from http://www.proton21.com.ua/index_en.html might actually contain at least some superatom substances (especially those they claim are far heavier than Uranium). It would be unreasonable to get such atoms when matter is bombarded with high energy electrons, which could easily produce lots of individual atoms that then may recondense into clusters mimicking other elements. Furthermore, they used metals as targets, and this current work seems to imply that conductors are a prerequisite. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
RE: [Vo]:Achieving the Rare and Final Stage of Oil Grief
The life of flooded lead acid batteries can be extended quite a bit by the latest charging technologies. Assuming you have an older EV. This technology has brought practically dead batteries back to life. Here is one charger I found. http://r-charge.com/index.html I intend to get an EV in the next year. If it is a used one I will be using this charger myself. Brian Prothro -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:01 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Achieving the Rare and Final Stage of Oil Grief Terry Blanton wrote: However, looking at my automobile: A gallon of gas contains about 36.7 kWhr of energy. Assuming a mechanical efficiency of about 70% and a thermal efficiency of about 30%, the car would be about 20% efficient providing about 7.3 kWhr. If I get 30 mpg and drive for an hour I consume 2 gal/hr driving at 60 mph or about eight bucks. With an electric car, I need 14.6 kWhr plus the inefficiency of transport of the electric power, figure 80%, or 18.25 kWhr. At 10 cents per kWhr the $8.00 of gasoline is displaced by $1.83 of go juice. And guess what, the power plant pollutes someone else. :-) Yup, it's a slick deal. And the boiler at the power plant is typically a lot cleaner than an ICE as well. (There is an extra hidden cost, though, which is that you must replace the batteries every few years; that tends to even out the operating expenses a bit. EVs still seem to be cheaper to operate, tho.) Attachment (if it comes through) is the back end of my wife's new car. Got it second hand a few months back; it's a conversion which was done for an old gentleman last year, using a 1990 Jetta for the base vehicle. The owner moved into a nursing home, which is why his car went on the market; we found it through Google. Only trouble is the range, which isn't so hot, as it runs on flooded lead acid batteries, like nearly all converted EV's.
Re: [Vo]:'Super atoms'
You're quite right; it was actually rather silly of me to not mention the ORMUS work when I posted this. I had emailed Barry Carter just before the list to see where he would weigh in on this work, though have yet to hear back from him. I hadn't thought about the use of metal in terms of conduction; I had the sense it had more to do with the sheer number of electron energies. I like some of Jones' observations. Zak On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:57 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Zachary Jones's message of Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:04:01 -0700: Hi, [snip] Thought the list would be interested in this work on easily- produceable atom clusters: http://www.physorg.com/news134129791.html They claim the principle is old news, but I hadn't heard of the electron shell 'conjugation' they suggest in the article. This may explain something else - the whitegold story. Purported among other things to be superconducting at room temperature. Some of these atoms are going to get pretty heavy. Also the Russian results from http://www.proton21.com.ua/index_en.html might actually contain at least some superatom substances (especially those they claim are far heavier than Uranium). It would not be unreasonable to get such atoms when matter is bombarded with high energy electrons, which could easily produce lots of individual atoms that then may condense into clusters mimicking other elements. Furthermore, they used metals as targets, and this current work seems to imply that conductors are a prerequisite. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Re:ALTI
In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:44:18 -0800: Hi, [snip] ALTI finally makes its big move, but in (2MW test) power management, not vehicles. Oooops! Sorry, I forgot the link: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1742502/ Grid storage is precisely what Li batteries should NOT be used for. There isn't enough Li to go around. Li should be reserved for mobile applications. A far better and cheaper option for grid storage would be molten salt (100% efficient energy input with 50%-70% efficient energy retrieval).
