Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
OrionWorks wrote: Leak sez: I seem to recall that it wasnt that a human wouldn't swat it, its that a human wouldnt know waht a bee was. I could be wrong. I have not read PKD's novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. However, in the film adaption Blade Runner it seemed obvious to me that the screen writers wrote the script to imply that most humans knew all too well what a bee is. Actually, the question was: what would you do if a WASP (not a bee) Thanks for the correction -- I actually wasn't sure which hexapod was involved; it's been a long time since I read the book. I *think* it was Rachel who pushed the goat off the roof as well, but once again it's been a long time... landed on your arm. What gave Rachel away (as a replicant) was that she impulsively and with no hesitation said she would swat it, when most humans would have been hesitant and/or averse to killing such creatures because there were so few of them left on the planet.. A little bit of trivia to break the tension. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Chinese building space drive unit
Vortex, This discussion over whether or not Shawyer's theory is correct or not is pointless and the wrong subject. You can prove or disprove anything if you have enough mathematical and speculative handwaving to say what you want to say. The two points that SHOULD be very carefully considered are, 1. Whether or not it works. It doesn't matter if the theory is right or wrong. What matters is whether or not it produces a thrust that is truly 'reactionless'. Meaning, not expelling matter or energy, or if it expels energy, giving more thrust per energy input than an equal photon drive. If it works, then the theoretical physicists who said it couldn't should be all sacked. Then the technology should be developed. As far as I am aware, with those I've communicated with about this, the problems of heat causing convection effects have not been ruled out. The weighing methods haven't been very good, especially when you've got a microwave source this powerful hanging around nearby. I've worked on many different concepts for reactionless thrusters, and I can tell you from experience, there are MANY MANY MANY 'gotchas' that can bite you. They will almost invariably come from the one place you DIDN'T think to look. On a more personal level, I'd love to see a reactionless engine work. If for no other reason (primal, I admit), than to see a lot of so-called scientist's reputations destroyed and the physics house-of-cards utterly trashed. 2. No one has discussed thisso I will. And it is as on topic as screaming about overweight people and suggesting that vegetarian cats are good things to have around. China should NOT BE BUILDING ANYTHING THAT WILL GIVE THEM AN ADVANTAGE IN SPACE! Does anyone remember Tiananmen Square? The three powers that should be working on this should be the USA, the EU, or Japan. China should have no involvement in this whatsoever, given their atrocious human right's violations. You think the USA is bad? Go see what the Chinese do. There is no comparison. But everyone these days, Liberal or Conservative, seem to have a sick love affair with China. The USA can't build a power plant, but China can build dozens and dozens of unscrubbed coal-burners. They can have a population so oppressed that there is no hope whatsoever, and that's okay. It's not that they are bad...it's just that we in the USA and the other 'decadent' countries are too 'good off.' Once you have the high-ground, space in this case, you can do almost anything you want and get away with it. There is little defense. China, in its current state, has NO business occupying this top rung of the ladder. Last night, after reading about this, was incredibly depressing for me. It shows how badly my country, and so many others, have sold out their industry and ingenuity to an enemy regime that cares NOTHING for human life, for but a fistful of dollars and euros. If anyone in the USA, the EU, Japan, or any other free nation (they are, compared to China), has any sense left, they should research this and leave China in the dust. Hell, how about Taiwan? AKA, the nation that the USA stupidly refuses to admit exists. I'd support a Taiwanese space program, if for no other reason than telling China: We don't care about your threats, we don't need your poisonous cat food and toys, we don't need your slave-labor produced garbage. And guess what? Taiwan don't belong to you any more, their purpose is their own, so go f**k yourselves and leave them alone to their own destiny. And by the way, if you want to exist in the next 100 years, you'd better consider releasing Tibet. If Shawyer and his company willingly gave this over to the Chinese, especially if money was involved, then he is worse than the worst, in my book. What happened to the UK's national pride? Where has it gone? Think I'll go listen to Roger Waters' The Final Cut. It seems appropriate. --Kyle P.S., if you think I'm defending the myriad nasty things the USA has (and/or is) doing, don't bother replying. It is simply a question of who is more evil in the absolute sense. That does matter when you are talking about human lives.
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
In case anyone was confused about what is happening, here is a good summary.EdMONEYANDMARKETS»Emergency EditionSaturday, September 27, 2008YOUR BEST SOURCE FOR THE UNBIASED MARKET COMMENTARY YOU WON'T GET FROM WALL STREET[«] Money and Markets 2008 ArchiveView This Issue On Our Website [»]Emergency Edition: Wall Street MeltdownbyMartin D. Weiss, Ph.D.Dear Edmund,Our nation is suffering through a financial emergency, and I wanted to make sure you get this urgent message now, before it's too late.Right at this moment, in an attempt to prevent a Wall Street meltdown from beginning as soon as Monday, Congress is locked in a last-ditch effort to produce a bailout package before Sunday evening when Asian markets open.Whether they succeed in their weekend endeavor or not, three things are crystal clear:1.The U.S. credit engine isalreadymelting down. In fact, just this week, the all-important market for short-term commercial paper has come to a virtual standstill. This is precisely the market we warned you about. Now it's collapsing. And if this pattern continues, it's likely to drive many corporations that depend on this instant cash into instant bankruptcy.2.Although a massive federal bailout might help rally the stock market temporarily, it isnot— and will not — reverse the credit meltdown.3.Quite to the contrary, fear is now spreading throughout the banking industry, driving many Americans to pull their money out of the financial system entirely. Yes, it makes sense to shift from weak to strong institutions, and that's rational. But the behavior we're beginning to witness is both irrational and dangerous.Here's what we are doing.First,as a follow-up to our white paper submitted to Congress this week,"Proposed $700 Billion Bailout Is Too Little, Too Late to End the Debt Crisis; Too Much, Too Soon for the U.S. Bond Market," we are recommending that Congress focus less on bailing out imprudent institutions and more on fortifying the safety net of individuals caught in failed financial institutions. Some urgent steps include:Fully fund and staff the Federal Depositors Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to better prepare for the possibility of multiple bank failures occurring at the same time.Close major gaps in the coverage provided by Securities Investors Protection Corporation (SIPC) to help make sure investors are not denied access to their accounts when they need to liquidate their securities in a falling market.Seriously consider federal insurance to cover policyholders in failed insurance companies.Our major point to Congress: These actions cannot wait. Just this week, data from Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) shows that Washington Mutual suffered panicky withdrawals averaging $2 billion per day over the past eight business days. Now, in order to help prevent the spread of panic among bank, brokerage and insurance company customers, firm and swift action is needed to sew up the holes in our nation's existing safety nets.Second,we have taken steps to help you find safety. For all the details, we hope you didn't miss out 1-hour educational video, "The X List."Third,we are doing everything we can to help you go on the offensive to convert this massive crisis into a massive profit opportunity. And with that goal in mind, we've just posted anupdated report to our Website with specific instructions.We expect this massive crisis could come to a head very quickly, and we anticipate a Black October for the stock market.Click herenow so you can act before then.Good luck and God bless!Martin
Re: [VO]: OT: Get a Rope!
Now Richard, don't get too worked up about all this, as it was never more than printed 'monopply money' anyway and - it is bad for one's mental health. After all, isn't it a new national priority that we need to transfer lots of wealth to Omaha? How else are we going 'to keep them down on the farm' ? Here are 12 steps to financial anger management: http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=69d374526f1742dda3da334864e446b3siteid=nwtpfsguid=gmvriE9Uvk2QI0xyxWEYBg
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part of Obama's plan to balance the budget is to subject that 1 1/2% to social security payments as well! It is part of his plan to redistribute the wealth. Inflation is a tax, and it loots the savers. The stock market is too scary to mess with. I-bonds are paying 0% interest right now, but even at that, they might be the best investment out there. The majority of people endeavor to conduct their lives in such a manner so as not to be a burden to others. They are the targets of this redistribution. Some poor people seek jobs while others milk the system. If the job creators are plundered by the government, where will the jobs come from? When the haves are reduced to havenots, we will all be losers. We cannot advance the economy by punishing the hard working successful. Jeff
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part of Obama's plan to balance the budget is to subject that 1 1/2% to social security payments as well! It is part of his plan to redistribute the wealth. Inflation is a tax, and it loots the savers. The stock market is too scary to mess with. I-bonds are paying 0% interest right now, but even at that, they might be the best investment out there. The majority of people endeavor to conduct their lives in such a manner so as not to be a burden to others. They are the targets of this redistribution. Some poor people seek jobs while others milk the system. If the job creators are plundered by the government, where will the jobs come from? When the haves are reduced to havenots, we will all be losers. We cannot advance the economy by punishing the hard working successful. Jeff
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Did you see the word 'forced' in my post? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part of Obama's plan to balance the budget is to subject that 1 1/2% to social security payments as well! It is part of his plan to redistribute the wealth. Inflation is a tax, and it loots the savers. The stock market is too scary to mess with. I-bonds are paying 0% interest right now, but even at that, they might be the best investment out there. The majority of people endeavor to conduct their lives in such a manner so as not to be a burden to others. They are the targets of this redistribution. Some poor people seek jobs while others milk the system. If the job creators are plundered by the government, where will the jobs come from? When the haves are reduced to havenots, we will all be losers. We cannot advance the economy by punishing the hard working successful. Jeff
Re: [VO]: OT: Get a Rope!
Heck Jones, Everybody knows some of the best corn fed beef comes from Omaha.. but. try to explain to the poker players in the back room how some funny looking poker chips sorta showed up on the table. I sure hope the guys slipping this the stuff into the game can be as good a sport about it when it happens to them. Our boys learned a few tricks from ole Jim Bowie 'bout salting real ginuwine gold mines up on the San Saba river and selling the location maps for 20 dollars adobe. Imagine the work ole Jim Bowie put into aging those goatskin maps with stale coffee. Word out on the street in San Antonio was Bowie sold right smart like 5,000 dollars worth of maps a years .. well .. until Gen. Santa Ana sorta cut into Bowie's monolopy by shooting him to rag dolls behind the wall over near the Alamo. Why do I get this feeling we are gonna be seeing a repeat of this back on Wall Street .. where .. some people can't take a joke. Richard Jones wrote, Now Richard, don't get too worked up about all this, as it was never more than printed 'monopply money' anyway and - it is bad for one's mental health. After all, isn't it a new national priority that we need to transfer lots of wealth to Omaha? How else are we going 'to keep them down on the farm' ? Here are 12 steps to financial anger management: http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=69d374526f1742dda3da334864e446b3siteid=nwtpfsguid=gmvriE9Uvk2QI0xyxWEYBg -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1694 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 6:55 PM
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Yes, 4th line first word. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Did you see the word 'forced' in my post? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part of Obama's plan to balance the budget is to subject that 1 1/2% to social security payments as well! It is part of his plan to redistribute the wealth. Inflation is a tax, and it loots the savers. The stock market is too scary to mess with. I-bonds are paying 0% interest right now, but even at that, they might be the best investment out there. The majority of people endeavor to conduct their lives in such a manner so as not to be a burden to others. They are the targets of this redistribution. Some poor people seek jobs while others milk the system. If the job creators are plundered by the government, where will the jobs come from? When the haves are reduced to havenots, we will all be losers. We cannot advance the economy by punishing the hard working successful. Jeff
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Damn! How'd that get there? People were forced into the money market. The traditional way for saving when I was a child was the passbook account. I prided myself for every dollar that got stamped into my book. The move by the banks to reduce these rates made people look at certificates of deposits. The CDs gave the banks reassurance that the money would remain with them for the term of the deposit. Then the money market fell and many people who were living off their retirement funds moved into mutual funds in order to maintain their ROI. The result is an inflated stock market. You *do* agree that the peak of 14,000 was quite inflated for the DOW? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, 4th line first word. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Did you see the word 'forced' in my post? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part of Obama's plan to balance the budget is to subject that 1 1/2% to social security payments as well! It is part of his plan to redistribute the wealth. Inflation is a tax, and it loots the savers. The stock market is too scary to mess with. I-bonds are paying 0% interest right now, but even at that, they might be the best investment out there. The majority of people endeavor to conduct their lives in such a manner so as not to be a burden to others. They are the targets of this redistribution. Some poor people seek jobs while others milk the system. If the job creators are plundered by the government, where will the jobs come from? When the haves are reduced to havenots, we will all be losers. We cannot advance the economy by punishing the hard working successful. Jeff
[Vo]:Nanoparticle accelerator ?
Even though there is way too much bad news fouling the air these days - let me revert to science, and throw this out concept for comment: What is wrong with the following suggestion for a linear accelerator of nanoparticles (as opposed to ions) ? To be more specific, let's say we have a fairly uniform supply of nanoparticles (the fuel) consisting of small spheres of about 1000 atoms each. The fuel can be magnetized as a PM. In one case, these particles could be manufactured starting with a standard core of C-60 (buckyball carbon) onto which is coated an iron alloy in the thickness of a few atoms and then magnetized. In another case, there could be a third layer which is more reactive (in any sense). At any rate, the most general idea is that the fuel nanoparticles, are fed in a continuous stream (and with an atomic mass of about 50,000 each) into an modified kind of linear accelerator, and then brought up to a comparatively low exit speed (as accelerators go = a tiny fraction of c.) but with a rather substantial energy in each particle, due to the large mass. The design of the accelerator itself will be most important, since particles as massive as this would not couple well to photons (or would they?). BUT since the particles can be magnetized, some kind of magnetic wave could be used to create an acceleration gradient. Possibly the simplest kind of accelerator imagineable for this particular concept might be a capillary tube made of a dielectric with magnetic properties (to 'center' the fuel particle in the tube) onto which is wound three-phase conductors - such that a travelling wavefront down the tube is expressed when the conductors are energized accordingly. Any thoughts on this? Jones BTW there are some patents for nanoparticle accelerators but most involve an expanding gas as the medium for acceleration, and none that I have discovered yet which operate this way (which seems fairly obvious, unless I am missing something).
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Here is an amusing anecdote: Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest, and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He further announced that he would now buy at $20. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so little that it was an effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 ! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on behalf of him. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each. The villagers rounded up with all their savings and bought all the monkeys. Then they never saw the man nor his assistant again, only monkeys everywhere! Now you have a better understanding of how the stock market works! end On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn! How'd that get there? People were forced into the money market. The traditional way for saving when I was a child was the passbook account. I prided myself for every dollar that got stamped into my book. The move by the banks to reduce these rates made people look at certificates of deposits. The CDs gave the banks reassurance that the money would remain with them for the term of the deposit. Then the money market fell and many people who were living off their retirement funds moved into mutual funds in order to maintain their ROI. The result is an inflated stock market. You *do* agree that the peak of 14,000 was quite inflated for the DOW? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, 4th line first word. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Did you see the word 'forced' in my post? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
On Sep 27, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Damn! How'd that get there? People were forced into the money market. The traditional way for saving when I was a child was the passbook account. I prided myself for every dollar that got stamped into my book. The move by the banks to reduce these rates made people look at certificates of deposits. The CDs gave the banks reassurance that the money would remain with them for the term of the deposit. Then the money market fell and many people who were living off their retirement funds moved into mutual funds in order to maintain their ROI. The result is an inflated stock market. You *do* agree that the peak of 14,000 was quite inflated for the DOW? Well, yes and no. Yes because this level did not last and no because the recent melt down of the market has caused an unnatural reduction. Inflation should and will cause the market to go higher eventually, once the dust clears. However, if some big companies go bankrupt, this might take awhile. People who want safety usually go into the bond market, not the stock market. A person can buy a bond that pays a fixed and known interest and know that the principal is safe. Unfortunately, people bought bond mutual funds where this is not true. I agree, people go into the stock market because the returns are better. However, they made their choices based on either poor information or on the self-interest of the adviser. When the market goes up, almost any choice will make money. The mistake is believing the market will always go up and that the adviser cares if you lose you shirt. In short, people had ways to get a better safe return, but in their ignorance took bad advice, just like people who bought homes they could not afford. A price is always paid for ignorance. Ed Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, 4th line first word. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Did you see the word 'forced' in my post? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout. The next president will have runaway inflation and high interest rates. Who do you think will handle this problem to your benefit? Ed Right now we have inflation running at approximately 10% annual rate and savings accounts paying around 1 1/2% for a net loss of 8 1/2%. On top of that we must pay income tax on the 1 1/2%. Part of Obama's plan to balance the budget is to subject that 1 1/2% to social security payments as well! It is part of his plan to redistribute the wealth. Inflation is a tax, and it loots the savers. The stock market is too scary to mess with.
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout
Good story, Terry. However, a few people in the village did not buy back the monkeys because they saw through the scam. These people then bought land from the people who now needed money and eventually owned the village. So the story is not without its happy ending. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 9:22 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Here is an amusing anecdote: Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest, and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He further announced that he would now buy at $20. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so little that it was an effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 ! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on behalf of him. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each. The villagers rounded up with all their savings and bought all the monkeys. Then they never saw the man nor his assistant again, only monkeys everywhere! Now you have a better understanding of how the stock market works! end On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn! How'd that get there? People were forced into the money market. The traditional way for saving when I was a child was the passbook account. I prided myself for every dollar that got stamped into my book. The move by the banks to reduce these rates made people look at certificates of deposits. The CDs gave the banks reassurance that the money would remain with them for the term of the deposit. Then the money market fell and many people who were living off their retirement funds moved into mutual funds in order to maintain their ROI. The result is an inflated stock market. You *do* agree that the peak of 14,000 was quite inflated for the DOW? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, 4th line first word. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Did you see the word 'forced' in my post? Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Edmund Storms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on, get real. No one is forced into the stock market this way. Pass book accounts always pay less than other investments because they are considered safer. Same with money market accounts. A trade off always exists between safety and the risk of making more money. Lots of different investment methods exist these days that allow a person to match their risk to an expected reward. The difference between these methods involves how much knowledge and attention is required. A passbook account requires no knowledge, hence gives the least return. Money can be made in the stock market even now, but this requires knowledge and attention, which most people do not have or do not want to get. In this life, you get what you pay for. In making money the payment is in time and attention. Otherwise, you have only yourself to blame. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Jeff, You hit the nail with your head when you pointed out the loss of rates on passbook accounts. The loss of reasonable returns on these havens forced people into the money market and eventually into the stock market. The result is an inflated and volatile stock market and people living on the edge of panic. I'm not sure the bailout will restore the waning faith of the masses. And, our entire financial system is founded on faith in fiat funds be it cash, stocks or bonds. Terry. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC News of the bailout Actually, only the Supreme Court can answer this question and they show no interest in doing so. The cause of the problem is obvious to anyone who has looked at reality. Many mistakes were made, but each has been identified and attempts will be made to apply a correction. Of course, the corrections will be imperfect because of the required compromises, but they will be put in place no matter who is elected. The only issue of this electron is how will the next mistake be handled? The next mistake is now being created by the structure of the bailout.
Re: [Vo]:It Was Magnetism
Of course steel gets soft as it is heated. Blacksmiths would be very disappointed if it didn't. The role of any magnetic transition is irrelevant. Have people completely lost their common sense. The towers came down because the steel became too weak to support the weight. I wish people would focus on that part of the event that does not have a rational explanation rather than being distracted by nonsense. Ed On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: I knew it! I knew it! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/magnetic-forces-to-blame-for-911-tower-collapse-924509.html http://snipurl.com/3q99t [www_independent_co_uk]
[Vo]:NASA Data Show Arctic Saw Fastest August Sea Ice Retreat on Record
Although the melt season did not break the record for ice loss, NASA data are showing that for a four-week period in August 2008, sea ice melted faster during that period than ever before. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/sea_ice_min.html http://tinyurl.com/4xpsjt Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:It Was Magnetism
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:32:13 -0500: Hi, [snip] I knew it! I knew it! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/magnetic-forces-to-blame-for-911-tower-collapse-924509.html [snip] ...and this magically only happened in the WTC, and has never happened to other steel structures elsewhere Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Nanoparticle accelerator ?
- Original Message From: Robin van Spaandonk Wouldn't it be easier to just give each nano-particle a charge and accelerate them in an electric field? Possibly - but one thing left unmentioned was the desirability of keeping the nanoparticle very cold. I am trying to find or imagine a possible QM regime for fusion, which is NOT thermonulcear per se, but employs the acceleration of the fuel particle for two reasons which are impossible to achieve in a normal LENR cell at cryogenic temperatures - where the energy of adjacent reactions quenches the active zone. Pressumably an accelerated fuel - which is in its own reference 'frame' can remain cold untill the instant it is reacted. The temperature of the target would not be relevant if the speed of the particle was sufficient -- and this would also lower the transition time from a BEC state to a very hot state. (at the same time requiring far less energy input for the acceleration than would be required to achieve a true thermonulcear state). IOW this (thought experiment) is to be a kind of a *hybrid* between hot and cold fusion -- i.e. between QM tunneling andthermonulcear fusion -- which would hopefully happen at greatly umproved statistical rates. Not sure it is even possible to accelerate a cold particle and keep it cold - as a very hard vacuum in the linear accelerator would be difficult to achieve with a constant input of particles and any stray atom would kill the cryogenic state of many particles. If a very hard vacuum could be maintained, another option might be both a ferromagnetic polarity combined with an excitonic charge in the fuel nanoparticle. Having a buckball core seems to facilitate this excitonic state, as the 'space' in the C-60 sphere acts like an electron hole, and perhaps does manage to coheren a positron from the Dirac epo field. The Frenkel electron of a bucky-exiton has typical binding energy on the order of 1.0 eV and this limits the gradient of the accelerating field (unless it is a repulsive electric field) but might allow acceleration without local heating? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Nanoparticle accelerator ?
For comparative purposes, if you accelerated a deuteron to a few million volts into a target of lithium deuteride, it would get up to a fair fraction of c. at the end -- and you would get lots of thermonuclear reactions and spallation but few of the reactions would be D + D -- 4He (with the large expected gain ~24 MeV). In contrast, should a hybrid tunneling reaction be possible; then if you accelerated a nanoparticle of cryogenic deuterium (in a Pd matrix) to a hundredth of that ending velocity, but the particle itself was 10,000 times more massive, you would expect almost zero thermonuclear reactions. However, if the BEC state was maintained till impact with any solid taget -- and there was substantial QM tunneling triggered by impact, then you might conceivably see both the large gain and a decent statistical yield. [this is unknown territory and cannot even be predicted, most likely] Lets see - at an ending velocity of 1000 km/sec and the particle itself is of a geometry below the Forster radius of 10 nm, then the trasition time on impact from the BEC state to a very energetic intermediate quark-soup phase ... well it is way sub-picosecond and that should make it all interesting, no? Basically the net or 'virtual' effect of having a fuel which already in a BEC state, is that the two reactants can be said to already occupy the same space before impact, which converts any relatively slow speed to virtual-C so long as the speed itself is sufficient to keep the particle from preheating as it gets close. ... or not? - Original Message I am trying to find or imagine a possible QM regime for fusion, which is NOT thermonulcear per se, but employs the acceleration of the fuel particle for two reasons which are impossible to achieve in a normal LENR cell at cryogenic temperatures - where the energy of adjacent reactions quenches the active zone. Pressumably an accelerated fuel - which is in its own reference 'frame' can remain cold untill the instant it is reacted. The temperature of the target would not be relevant - if the speed of the particle was sufficient -- and this would also lower the transition time from a BEC state to a very hot state. (at the same time requiring far less energy input for the acceleration than would be required to achieve a true thermonulcear state). IOW this (thought experiment) is to be a kind of a *hybrid* between hot and cold fusion -- i.e. between QM tunneling andthermonulcear fusion -- which would hopefully happen at greatly umproved statistical rates. Not sure it is even possible to accelerate a cold particle and keep it cold - as a very hard vacuum in the linear accelerator would be difficult to achieve with a constant input of particles and any stray atom would kill the cryogenic state of many particles. If a very hard vacuum could be maintained, another option might be both a ferromagnetic polarity combined with an excitonic charge in the fuel nanoparticle. Having a buckball core seems to facilitate this excitonic state, as the 'space' in the C-60 sphere acts like an electron hole, and perhaps does manage to coheren a positron from the Dirac epo field. The Frenkel electron of a bucky-exiton has typical binding energy on the order of 1.0 eV and this limits the gradient of the accelerating field (unless it is a repulsive electric field) but might allow acceleration without local heating? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Nanoparticle accelerator ?
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 27 Sep 2008 17:14:32 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] and there was substantial QM tunneling triggered by impact [snip] Why would you expect this to be the case? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Nanoparticle accelerator ?
Hi Robin, Lets see - at an ending velocity of 1000 km/sec and the particle itself is of a geometry below the Forster radius of 10 nm, then the trasition time on impact from the BEC state to a very energetic intermediate quark-soup phase ... well it is way sub-picosecond and that should make it all interesting, no? RvS: At 1000 km/sec each proton of your nano-particle will have an energy of 5220 eV. I doubt this will be anywhere near enough to create quark-soup (i.e. to break the gluon bonds between quarks). If it were, then atom smashers wouldn't need to be huge underground devices, but could reside on a laboratory work bench. I agree entirely. But has anything been overlooked in the past? The 'magic' if there is any, would be in the special properties of the BEC state. If that state were to be strongly involved, then it is not simply 5 keV used to push nuclei together, which want to repel - but it is more comparable to 5 keV added to already superimposed nuclei, which is used to keep them in that condition for long enough, in a phase transition, so that the lower entropy alpha particle results in the ending nucleus, instead of the two deuterons repelling. This could have been essentially unknown or unappreciated when the early atom smashers were being designed... Or else - maybe that is for good reason. Perhaps it is impossible to maintain such a required very hard vacuum in an accelerator, such that the BEC state is maintained in an accelerated particle. Jones
Re: [Vo]:It Was Magnetism
Personally, I intended it as a joke. Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:32:13 -0500: Hi, [snip] I knew it! I knew it! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/magnetic-forces-to-blame-for-911-tower-collapse-924509.html [snip] ...and this magically only happened in the WTC, and has never happened to other steel structures elsewhere Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Nanoparticle accelerator ?
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:03:28 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] The 'magic' if there is any, would be in the special properties of the BEC state. If that state were to be strongly involved, then it is not simply 5 keV used to push nuclei together, which want to repel - but it is more comparable to 5 keV added to already superimposed nuclei, which is used to keep them in that condition for long enough, in a phase transition, so that the lower entropy alpha particle results in the ending nucleus, instead of the two deuterons repelling. This could have been essentially unknown or unappreciated when the early atom smashers were being designed... Or else - maybe that is for good reason. Perhaps it is impossible to maintain such a required very hard vacuum in an accelerator, such that the BEC state is maintained in an accelerated particle. There is an early CF experiment where Pd/D(Or was that Al?) is bombarded with fast electrons. That is almost a turned around version of what you want. IOW iso accelerating the BEC and crashing it into something, accelerate the something and crash it into the BEC. That is probably easier to do, as it avoids your vacuum problem. For that matter, if BECs are forming in CF cathodes, and fast particles are being generated by fusion events, then this is probably already happening. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:It Was Magnetism
- Original Message From: Terry Blanton Personally, I intended it as a joke. ...kinda iron-ic, ain't it?
Re: [Vo]:It Was Magnetism
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 27 Sep 2008 21:16:11 -0500: Hi, [snip] Personally, I intended it as a joke. That's fine, but for the sake of others I had to point out the obvious flaw. OTOH, if someone were doing John Hutchison experiments...(see http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/) ;) Terry On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:32:13 -0500: Hi, [snip] I knew it! I knew it! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/magnetic-forces-to-blame-for-911-tower-collapse-924509.html [snip] ...and this magically only happened in the WTC, and has never happened to other steel structures elsewhere Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:It Was Magnetism
Oooh, i had to steel my self for that one. The pun coppers should come and nickel and dime you to death with fines. To think that you would zinc to that level. If i had the winged cap of mercury, to fly from these puns. On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message From: Terry Blanton Personally, I intended it as a joke. ...kinda iron-ic, ain't it?
