Re: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

>
> Tritium is radioactive, so the evidence of radioactivity in the ash of the
> Ni-H reaction is nonzero.
>

If we allow Ni + H2O, I can provide two additional references in support of
tritium generation and, implicitly, radioactivity.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
> Since there is zero evidence of high energy gammas in Ni-H reaction, and
> zero evidence of radioactivity in the ash - and only slight evidence of
> soft
> spectrum radiation,


Tritium is radioactive, so the evidence of radioactivity in the ash of the
Ni-H reaction is nonzero.

D2 + H2 gas, Fe-Cr + Ni-Ti substrate:  10^11 atoms tritium.  Romodanov et
al., "Nuclear reactions in condensed media and X-ray," Seventh
International Conference on Cold Fusion, 1998.

Ni + H2 gas:  tritium at 7.7 * 10^2 times background.  Sankaranarayanan et
al., "Evidence for tritium generation in self-heated nickel wires subjected
to hydrogen gas absorption/desorption cycles," Fifth International
Conference on Cold Fusion, 1995; "Investigation of low level tritium
generation in Ni-H2O electrolytic cells, "Fourth International Conference
on Cold Fusion," 1993.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[integral.property.serv...@gmail.com]

Jones,

"ability to make macroscopic particle predictions based on microscopic 
properties" is called
Statistical Mechanics, a function of the distribution of the system on 
its micro-states. From nothing comes a point  with predicted properties. 
Aha, this one reminds me of what the experimental lads call a proton 
with one electron associated with it.


Retire to a University Library cubical and study Statistical Mechanics 
as if you had an exam in it next week. Give yourself a break from 
Mistaken notions about human populations and other non intellectual 
pursuits. Now you can win a Nobel prize by mathematically predicting the 
mass of Avogadro's number of Ni atoms to one million places.


Warm Regards,

Reliable*
*
Jones Beene wrote:
		From: Jed Rothwell 
		

Jones Beene wrote:
		 
		IOW the mass of hydrogen is not a quantum value, and there

is no rationale that predicts it will be a single value instead of a range.
In fact, mass determination of hydrogen, from various labs in various
countries varies all over the place.

You are saying the mass varies, and this is not an
instrument artifact? As Jon Stewart says, I didn't see that coming.

Now I know how people felt when isotopes were discovered.


The accepted value for mass of a proton is 938.272013 MeV, but that value
(in my hypothesis) is an average of many protons in many situations. Over
the years, measurements made in different countries and a different times
with different instruments have returned different values (close but
different). Some of that is because there can be variation in the feed
stock, aside from the instrumentation. In short, hydrogen from natural gas
may vary slightly in mass compared to hydrogen from electrolysis of
rainwater. This might be the result of the bedrock from which the methane
was stored for millions of years having Uranium content which pumped up the
non-quark bosons (gluons pions etc).

The major hypothesis detail is that the more than half of the proton mass is
not quantized, and some of that can be extracted by Coulomb repulsion at
close range in IRH (inverted Rydberg hydrogen which is another name for
dense hydrogen) - resulting in very fast protons, but only so long there is
a usable "overage" in mass which does not allow quark dispersal. The
hypothesis is falsifiable.

In short - the average mass can vary to the extent of a fractional percent
as either "overage" or "deficit" in various sources of hydrogen (say from
937 MeV to 940 MeV). At best, the "known value" of mass becomes what is
really an "average" based on whatever the most advanced current measurement
technique is being used - before recalibration. Everyone recalibrates, as an
expedient and so as not to be embarrassed by their instruments.

The overage which is "in play" in this hypothesis is the mystery energy
source for Ni-H reactions, whether they be from Mills, Rossi, DGT,
Piantelli, Celani, or Thermacore. It is technically nuclear energy, since it
comes from a nucleus - but it does not result in rearrangement of the proton
nor a new element.

Jones

  

Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?

[integral.property.serv...@gmail.com]

Axil,

Carbon nanocone properties: http://www.mse.ncsu.edu/CompMatSci/pdf/full3.pdf
"most probable spot for emitting tunneling electrons in the presence of 
external field"


Nanocone production is covered by: 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14356007.n05_n06/pdf

page 15, 3.2 from heavy oil or gaseous hydrocarbons in arc plasmas.

Warm Regards,

Reliable

Axil Axil wrote:


I stand in support of Reliable.

I do not discount Chan and the other fellows that follow his design 
lead as kooks. On the contrary, their approach may be superior to what 
Rossi has done.



As an underlying design principle, I think that it is the shape of the 
catalyzing cluster that is important not what element it is comprised 
of… water, cesium, potassium, carbon… the cluster is made of. The 
engineering and control may be very different, however.


As long as the cluster can hold a charge; that is what is important. 
It is this charge that suppresses the coulomb barrier.


I think it important that experimenters try out carbon as a LENR 
catalyst. I don’t think Rossi uses carbon as his secret sauce because 
he states he uses pure hydrogen. Using Bulk Carbon powder would be a 
poor way to distribute carbon around the hydrogen envelop.


A better way to get carbon into the act is to use a hydrocarbon gas 
instead of vaporizing bulk carbon and hydrogen. Vaporizing bulk carbon 
is not easy from a practical point of view.


In an easier way, without any oxygen in the reactor’s envelop 
(important), under the action of a spark plug discharge plasma at 
60,000C, the hydrocarbon gas would decompose into hydrogen and some 
sort of carbon dust.


This dust may form as carbon nanotubes(a one dimensional 
superconductive cluster) which would store electrons from the plasma 
produced by the spark plug.


This long thin tube would be superconductive and concentrate negative 
charge like a capacitor. These nanowires would be electrostatically 
attracted to the nickel powder, they would attach themselves 
electrostatically head on to the nickel powder, and their accumulated 
negative charge at their sharp tip would reduce the coulomb barrier 
where their sharp tips contacted the nickel powder.


This is not the way Rossi’s reaction works, but I think that it is a 
better way. Rossi’s secret sauce is heat activated to accumulate 
charge; but the carbon nanotubes accumulate charge in proportion to 
the discharge rate of the spark plug.


If you want to increase heat output on a nanotube based system, just 
increase the spark plug firing rate. Control of heat output is a 
simple process with an advantage of simplicity over what Rossi has 
been struggling with over more than a year.


Cheers: Axil




On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:30 PM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com 
 
> wrote:


Chan Again Darn It,

http://hydride.has.it/
shows reference to processing FLUID hydrocarbons (mineral oil or
propane perhaps) with arc.
H. Yes, bleeding gas or pumped fluids suggests control
possibilities. Yes, What about this, Gentlemen, could it be that
passing Ni dispersed in oil through a permanent magnetic field or
one created by an electromagnet powered by DC might control or
mediate a miniature Ni H fusion therein?

Warm Regards,

Reliable


Robert Lynn wrote:

Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG

Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about
60-70% of
air at same pressure. So should be able to use an air gap that is
bigger.

Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using
25bar H2
that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for
25bar 600°C
I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to
lower H2
density (density equivalent of about 8bar).

Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated
temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap,
though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures.

Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine
producing
sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil.

On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder mailto:ecatbuil...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Interesting link on the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

It also appears that you can buy "vintage" tungsten spark
plugs. Terry
mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one
versus the other
or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs.

Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my
reactor... or
blow 

Re: [Vo]:defkalion rumour (PESN)

[Terry Blanton]

If AR really has the NRL on his side, he is likely to beat PDGT to the
draw; but, will it become public first?

Time will tell.

T

RE: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[Jones Beene]

From: Jed Rothwell 

Jones Beene wrote:
 
IOW the mass of hydrogen is not a quantum value, and there
is no rationale that predicts it will be a single value instead of a range.
In fact, mass determination of hydrogen, from various labs in various
countries varies all over the place.

You are saying the mass varies, and this is not an
instrument artifact? As Jon Stewart says, I didn't see that coming.

Now I know how people felt when isotopes were discovered.


The accepted value for mass of a proton is 938.272013 MeV, but that value
(in my hypothesis) is an average of many protons in many situations. Over
the years, measurements made in different countries and a different times
with different instruments have returned different values (close but
different). Some of that is because there can be variation in the feed
stock, aside from the instrumentation. In short, hydrogen from natural gas
may vary slightly in mass compared to hydrogen from electrolysis of
rainwater. This might be the result of the bedrock from which the methane
was stored for millions of years having Uranium content which pumped up the
non-quark bosons (gluons pions etc).

The major hypothesis detail is that the more than half of the proton mass is
not quantized, and some of that can be extracted by Coulomb repulsion at
close range in IRH (inverted Rydberg hydrogen which is another name for
dense hydrogen) - resulting in very fast protons, but only so long there is
a usable "overage" in mass which does not allow quark dispersal. The
hypothesis is falsifiable.

In short - the average mass can vary to the extent of a fractional percent
as either "overage" or "deficit" in various sources of hydrogen (say from
937 MeV to 940 MeV). At best, the "known value" of mass becomes what is
really an "average" based on whatever the most advanced current measurement
technique is being used - before recalibration. Everyone recalibrates, as an
expedient and so as not to be embarrassed by their instruments.

The overage which is "in play" in this hypothesis is the mystery energy
source for Ni-H reactions, whether they be from Mills, Rossi, DGT,
Piantelli, Celani, or Thermacore. It is technically nuclear energy, since it
comes from a nucleus - but it does not result in rearrangement of the proton
nor a new element.

Jones

<>

Re: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:


> IOW the mass of hydrogen is not a quantum value, and there is no rationale
> that predicts it will be a single value instead of a range. In fact,
> mass determination of hydrogen, from various labs in various countries
> varies all over the place.
>

You are saying the mass varies, and this is not an instrument artifact? As
Jon Stewart says, I didn't see that coming.

Now I know how people felt when isotopes were discovered.

- Jed

[Vo]:defkalion rumour (PESN)

[Alan J Fletcher]

http://pesn.com/2012/05/17/9602095_LENR-to-Market_Weekly_May17/

Sterling's Assessment: 


A group Defkalion is working with wants them to postpone posting data
from their tests until August when there is a big conference where they
will be making a presentation. The scuttlebutt is that while the third
party test results have been positive, there have been indications of
instability and inconsistency between tests, which doesn't speak well for
production readiness. They're still on track as a leader, but not in
first position any more. In my opinion, the long delay in posting those
test results which were supposed to be forthcoming even as early as
during the testing, contrary to their promised early release, is a
significant setback



(lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat  -- and the
defkalion hyperion -- Hi, google!)

Re: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Mon, 21 May 2012 07:26:19 -0700:
Hi Jones,
[snip]
>-Original Message-
>From: mix...@bigpond.com
>
>Hi Robin,
>
>> Either shrinking releases energy or it consumes energy. If it "can no
>longer
>absorb EUV radiation to further shrink" then it consumes energy. 
>
>Yes, of course. Mills believes that below a certain level this process can
>be autocatalytic (if he has not changed that view). 

Actually Mills has always said that it can be autocatalytic (disproportionation)
at *any* level.

>It is what happens at
>the end of this progression that determines the harder spectrum gammas,
>since as you say, "on the way down" it is EUV or soft x-rays only.

The energy of the EM that is emitted depends on the difference between initial
and final levels for any given transition. In order to create EM with gamma-ray
energy, the difference in levels would have to be about 100. IOW the Hydrino
would have go from level 1 to level 100 in a single transition. This implies a
catalyst with an m=100 value. The only such catalysts are likely to be other
already severely shrunken Hydrinos, and even then I think the transition would
be highly unlikely. Far more likely would be a transition of lesser magnitude,
e.g. with a change in level on the order of 1-4.

>
>> A far more likely source of true gammas is the occasional actual fusion
>reaction... 
>
>This is where we now disagree: what happens at the "end game" of hydrogen
>reducing to maximum redundancy. Your view is essentially the "virtual
>neutron" scenario - or a variety thereof. At one time this was my view as
>well.
>
>However, in a revised look at the evidence, I don't think that actual fusion
>can happen with any regularity, and consequently the "end result" of the
>progression to picometer geometry has to be fast proton expulsion from
>another Rydberg nucleus (i.e. another fully reduced hydrino) - which cannot
>fuse exothermically. 
>
>Those who believe that two protons can fuse to deuterium must depend on the
>miracle of an astoundingly heavy electron - for which there is no proof.
>Otherwise it is endothermic 

This is demonstrably not true, or we wouldn't exist.

The start of the fusion reaction chain in the Sun is two protons fusing to
become a deuteron. This is an *exothermic* reaction which produces 1.44 MeV
overall.
It may follow either of two paths:

1) Electron capture. (=> 1.44 MeV directly)
2) Positron emission. (produces 0.42 MeV directly then another 1.02 MeV upon
positron annihilation).

IMO Hydrinos would facilitate the EC path due to the proximity of the electron.
(However the cross section of the reaction is so low that this is not likely to
be occurring to any noticeable degree.)


>or, with a putative nickel to copper
>reaction (Focardi's error) where it is easy to see that the forces
>preventing fusion are orders of magnitude higher than hydrogen to deuterium.

While true that the Coulomb barrier is vastly higher for Nickel there are two
mitigating circumstances.

1) The fusion reaction itself is a straight forward fusion reaction, no weak
force mediation required (unlike p+p => D). This makes a huge difference to the
cross section).
2) In my model of the Hydrino, the smallest Hydrinos are small enough to
approach within range of the nuclear force, making the Coulomb barrier
irrelevant. This is also true of Horace's model.

>Ed Storms champions the hydrogen to deuterium camp, and he could be correct
>if he can find the numbers to support this without a massively heavy
>electron (if I understand his hypothesis). 

See above.

>
>In any event, gamma emission most often involve nuclear mass being converted
>into energy, but there is no necessity for fusion or actually transmutation-
>merely fast protons and a pathway involving mass depletion. The gammas that
>result from fast protons are bremsstrahlung, 

Any such bremsstrahlung is likely to be very low energy because the proton is
much heavier (1800 times) than the electron, hence travels much more slowly (for
the same kinetic energy). IOW the acceleration it undergoes is far less, and
consequently the radiation much less).

>so they are not the highest
>energy fusion variety. 

You can say that again! :)

>This alternate viewpoint depends on nuclear mass,
>especially from the proton itself, being available without fusion. Since it
>is an average mass (with a range) heavier protons can give up mass (from
>internal bosons - pion, gluon etc) and still retain atomic identity. IOW the
>mass of hydrogen is not a quantum value, and there is no rationale that
>predicts it will be a single value instead of a range. In fact, mass
>determination of hydrogen, from various labs in various countries varies all
>over the place.

You may well be correct in this regard, however it's debatable whether this is
due to measurement error, or due to an intrinsic variation in mass.

>
>Since there is zero evidence of high energy gammas in Ni-H reaction, and
>zero evidence of 

Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 12:02 PM 5/21/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Here are age distributions for England and Wales, 1696:

Age group, percent
0 - 9 27.6%
10 - 19 20.2%
20 - 29 15.5%
30 - 39 11.7%
40 - 49 8.4%
50 - 59 5.8%
60 and above  10.7%

Laslet, p. 103. Those numbers are reliable. They kept good records in the U.K.

So, 11% lived to their 60s, and there were more elderly people over 
60 than people in their 40s or 50s. The average age was 27.5. 
One-third to half of burials recorded in a French 17th century 
record were listed as "children," meaning they were probably under 
20 -- too young to be listed by employment. If you reached age 20 
and you were still healthy, and you had acquired immunity to measles 
and smallpox, you had a good chance of seeing age 60. You did not 
drop dead 7.5 years later.


I can't find specific papers or data, but I suspect that the human 
population is not homogenous, consisting of several overlapping 
species (male, female for starters), and that the "centenial" cohort 
simply does not die off from disease. Their peak on a normal 
distribution might be at 60, so they would hardly show up for deaths 
at earlier ages.


googling : human longevity long tail  (in the statistical sense!)

indicates that a fair number of people are looking for genetic 
markers to explain it.


And of course, the people most WORRIED about it are actuaries:
http://www.partnerre.com/reviews/article/stochastic-model-longevity-risk

disclaimer : my usual speculative, ignorant rambling opinions, of course ... 

Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[Jed Rothwell]

OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson  wrote:


> Obesity, diabetes, heart failure, and a slurry of other physical maladies
> is the price we are currently paying for our civilization that has become
> too successful.
>

No doubt that is the biological root of the obesity problem. That is why
fat people exist. I doubt there are any obese chimpanzees in the wild.

But the recent explosive increase in obesity starting in the 1970s has more
prosaic causes, in my opinion. The main causes are things like changes in
food technology such as frozen food; new types of food such as
high fructose corn syrup; and Federal subsidies for things like corn, milk
and meat.

In North America, middle-class and wealthy people have had access to
unlimited amounts of food at very low cost since the early 19th century,
but obesity was rare until the 1970s. Middle class people did not exercise
much after the spread of automobiles 1920s, so I do not think sloth is the
main factor.

The problem is complicated, as described in books such as "Prescription for
a Healthy Nation" but the main issue is recent changes in diet, and in what
anthropologists call "foodways." That is: when and where you eat, size of
portions, what you select for each meal, who prepares the food by what
methods, and so on. To me, the problem does not seem hard to fix. Just go
back to the foodways of 1950. That's what I do, and my weight has not
changed in 30 years.

That is an example of a solution that is clearcut, direct, and yet also
complicated and difficult to implement. Turning back the clock to 1950s
foodways would involve many expensive changes, higher grocery costs, and
also education. This resembles my solution to global warming: I say we
should stop burning fuel and then break apart CO2 molecules into C and O2,
remove several trillion tons of carbon from the air, and put it back
underground. That is the direct approach that gets to the heart of the
matter. Needless to say, you need cold fusion to do a thing like that. You
also need my kind of imagination, which I shared with Arthur C. Clarke. I
am not boasting about that! What I mean is that Clarke and I are both
literal-minded people with the uncluttered imagination of a 6-year-old.
Many people said that about him. They did not mean it as flattery. Given a
problem we tend to ignore difficulties, politics, and so-called practical
limitations. We gravitate toward the most direct method.

Clarke and I looked at the problems with food production and farms, for
example, which we were both pretty familiar with. Clarke grew up on a farm
and I spent a lot of time in the countryside. We both early on and
independently concluded that farms are wonderful but it would make a lot
more sense to grow food indoors. We looked at automobiles and said they
have their merits but there are too many. There is too much traffic and
they cause too many accidents, so let us get rid of cars somehow. People
say it is impossible, but I say things are sometimes easier than you
think. In Atlanta voters will soon pass the SPLOST initiative to spend
billions on highways. If people seriously want to fix the traffic problem,
this is not the right way to go about it. Building more roads will only
make the problem worse. Smart traffic lights maybe, but not more pavement.

The first thing to do is implement widespread use of high-res video
telecommuting. Then they should start dynamiting highways, permanently
blocking streets, and charging a $20 toll to come downtown, the way they do
in London. They should make the subway trains free, and charge people to
drive, instead of doing it the other way around.

I expect I am right about that policy. What I am describing is physically
possible. It is probably the cheapest and best answer. But there is not the
slightest chance that any politician in Georgia -- or anywhere in the U.S.
-- would advocate this.

Things can change though. Sometimes things change overnight, such as when
two nuclear reactors blow sky high. Suddenly you get conservative Japanese
politicians all in agreement that they should abruptly close down the
nuclear power industry.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?

[Axil Axil]

I stand in support of Reliable.

I do not discount Chan and the other fellows that follow his design lead as
kooks. On the contrary, their approach may be superior to what Rossi has
done.


As an underlying design principle, I think that it is the shape of the
catalyzing cluster that is important not what element it is comprised of…
water, cesium, potassium, carbon… the cluster is made of. The engineering
and control may be very different, however.

As long as the cluster can hold a charge; that is what is important. It is
this charge that suppresses the coulomb barrier.

I think it important that experimenters try out carbon as a LENR catalyst.
I don’t think Rossi uses carbon as his secret sauce because he states he
uses pure hydrogen. Using Bulk Carbon powder would be a poor way to
distribute carbon around the hydrogen envelop.

A better way to get carbon into the act is to use a hydrocarbon gas instead
of vaporizing bulk carbon and hydrogen. Vaporizing bulk carbon is not easy
from a practical point of view.

In an easier way, without any oxygen in the reactor’s envelop (important),
under the action of a spark plug discharge plasma at 60,000C, the
hydrocarbon gas would decompose into hydrogen and some sort of carbon dust.

This dust may form as carbon nanotubes(a one dimensional superconductive
cluster) which would store electrons from the plasma produced by the spark
plug.

This long thin tube would be superconductive and concentrate negative
charge like a capacitor. These nanowires would be electrostatically
attracted to the nickel powder, they would attach themselves
electrostatically head on to the nickel powder, and their accumulated
negative charge at their sharp tip would reduce the coulomb barrier where
their sharp tips contacted the nickel powder.

This is not the way Rossi’s reaction works, but I think that it is a better
way. Rossi’s secret sauce is heat activated to accumulate charge; but the
carbon nanotubes accumulate charge in proportion to the discharge rate of
the spark plug.

If you want to increase heat output on a nanotube based system, just
increase the spark plug firing rate. Control of heat output is a simple
process with an advantage of simplicity over what Rossi has been struggling
with over more than a year.



Cheers:  Axil





On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:30 PM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com <
integral.property.serv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Chan Again Darn It,
>
> http://hydride.has.it/
> shows reference to processing FLUID hydrocarbons (mineral oil or propane
> perhaps) with arc.
> H. Yes, bleeding gas or pumped fluids suggests control possibilities.
> Yes, What about this, Gentlemen, could it be that passing Ni dispersed in
> oil through a permanent magnetic field or one created by an electromagnet
> powered by DC might control or mediate a miniature Ni H fusion therein?
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Reliable
>
>
> Robert Lynn wrote:
>
>> Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Paschen%27s_law
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**File:Paschen_Curves.PNG
>>
>> Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of
>> air at same pressure.  So should be able to use an air gap that is
>> bigger.
>>
>> Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2
>> that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C
>> I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2
>> density (density equivalent of about 8bar).
>>
>> Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated
>> temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap,
>> though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures.
>>
>> Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing
>> sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil.
>>
>> On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
>>> Atomic_hydrogen_welding
>>>
>>> It also appears that you can buy "vintage" tungsten spark plugs. Terry
>>> mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other
>>> or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs.
>>>
>>> Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or
>>> blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..)
>>>
>>> Guenter, thanks for the schematic links..
>>>
>>> - Brad
>>> p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that
>>> Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that
>>> they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re: Defkalion forum's open again .. or NOT

[Terry Blanton]

Oh, okay.

T

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:
> At 01:03 PM 5/21/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
>>
>> http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/index.php\
>
>
> False alarm I think ... it let me log on, but posts are still disabled.
> (I could'a sworn it didn't let me log on after it was shut down ...)

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion forum's open again

[Terry Blanton]

Why do you think it is open?  Looks the same as before.

T

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:
> http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/index.php
>
> But no new posts    is something about to happen?
>
> (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat  -- and the defkalion
> hyperion -- Hi, google!)

Re: [Vo]:Re: Defkalion forum's open again .. or NOT

[Jed Rothwell]

The forum is like Waffle House: "We Never Close" but you might not want to
eat there.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:


> . . . they pass on cultural and technical knowledge. (People obviously
> more than chimps!) This created an advantage to surviving into old age.
> Especially during long span of history in which we had language but no
> writing, and the only store of knowledge was in people's brains . . .
>

A vivid example of this was in the movie "The Seven Samurai." The village
is in huge trouble, about to be attacked by brigands. Someone suggests they
fight back. They debate this and go to the village elder to decide. He
says: "When I was a lad, after one of the wars, the villages all around
were sacked, except one, where they hired Samurai . . ."

He had knowledge of a rare event 60 years earlier, in a society which was
largely illiterate, in an isolated place where news and knowledge did not
travel far.


That movie, by the way, is probably the most accurate movie portrayal of
Edo-period peasant living conditions we will ever see. Unless someone
invents a time-machine, that is the closest we will ever get. You could not
make something like it today. Experts may know how to make houses, and
plenty of people still know how to ride horses or use ancient weapons, but
you could not find people with that body type from the pre-WWII diet, or
people who talk like that. Other movies set in pre-modern Japan seem
utterly fake compared to it, even to me, and I am no expert. Even the other
movies by Kurosawa are fake.

It was made just beyond the living memory of the Edo period, 90 years after
it ended. It was set in 1600, but the life style, weapons, food and whatnot
were still current in 1868. It was similar to making a WWI epic
today. There are still enough people around today whose grandfathers fought
in WWI or flew Sopwith Camels to give a movie verisimilitude. There will
not be anyone like that in 2070. It is interesting to think about the flow
of time and receding memory, which recedes even with books, photographs and
video.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[Jed Rothwell]

 wrote:

>
> What I find interesting is what influence evolution may have on lifespan
> and why.  Is long life a species survival strategy?
>

Among primates, yes. Species that take care of offspring, rather than
laying eggs and abandoning them, must have a long adulthood. They cannot
die off quickly the way salmon do after spawning.

People and chimpanzees not only take care of their own offspring, they take
care of orphaned members of the tribe, and they pass on cultural and
technical knowledge. (People obviously more than chimps!) This created an
advantage to surviving into old age. Especially during long span of history
in which we had language but no writing, and the only store of knowledge
was in people's brains and in epic poetry and stories. (Epic poetry is
often codified knowledge in an easy-to-remember format.) For women, this
created an advantage to living well past menopause which I think is unique
to our species. Some anthropological studies show that elderly women
transmit more information and do useful, life-saving labor in old age than
men do, which may explain why they live longer than men, even after they
are elderly and no longer able to do as much physical labor as young people
do.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?

[integral.property.serv...@gmail.com]

Chan Again Darn It,

http://hydride.has.it/
shows reference to processing FLUID hydrocarbons (mineral oil or propane 
perhaps) with arc.
H. Yes, bleeding gas or pumped fluids suggests control 
possibilities. Yes, What about this, Gentlemen, could it be that passing 
Ni dispersed in oil through a permanent magnetic field or one created by 
an electromagnet powered by DC might control or mediate a miniature Ni H 
fusion therein?


Warm Regards,

Reliable

Robert Lynn wrote:

Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG

Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of
air at same pressure.  So should be able to use an air gap that is
bigger.

Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2
that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C
I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2
density (density equivalent of about 8bar).

Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated
temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap,
though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures.

Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing
sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil.

On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder  wrote:
  

Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

It also appears that you can buy "vintage" tungsten spark plugs. Terry
mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other
or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs.

Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or
blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..)

Guenter, thanks for the schematic links..

- Brad
p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that
Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that
they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.





  

Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[fznidarsic]

Here is a free book on life span.  I am reading it now.


http://www.amazon.com/Aging-Design-Thinking-Change-ebook/dp/B005KCO8SS/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337631718&sr=1-5
 




What I find interesting is what influence evolution may have on lifespan and 
why.  Is long life a species survival strategy?


Frank Znidarsic






 

Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From Jed:

...

> You cannot draw conclusions about today's diet from today's longevity. To
> find out if our diet is healthy and promotes a longer life, you will have to
> wait 30 to 50 years. Chances are, it does not. Today's diets have
> caused unprecedented high levels of obesity. Obesity usually shortens people
> lives. See:

...

I think the history books will look back at this period of our
evolving civilization as one filled with bizarre contradictions, one
that was exacerbated by the physiological proclivities of our bodies
to eat everything in sight. Evolution had wisely designed us to gorge
at every single opportunity presented to us because famine was always
just around the corner. But once it became obvious that mealtimes
would arrive on the dinner table regularly it pretty much shot such an
incredibly successful evolutionary blue print to hell. Our
civilization, fraught by the pitfalls of economic models that are
primarily designed around the principal that making money is the only
way to survive have yet to figure out how to stay alive while not
killing the very "prey" it's trying to feed off of. Obesity, diabetes,
heart failure, and a slurry of other physical maladies is the price we
are currently paying for our civilization that has become too
successful.

C'mon! Admit it! You want to wolf down a bunch krispy kremes, don't you! ;-)

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:Re: Defkalion forum's open again .. or NOT

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 01:03 PM 5/21/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/index.php\


False alarm I think ... it let me log on, but posts are still disabled.
(I could'a sworn it didn't let me log on after it was shut down ...) 

[Vo]:Defkalion forum's open again

[Alan J Fletcher]

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/index.php

But no new posts    is something about to happen?

(lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat  -- and the 
defkalion hyperion -- Hi, google!) 

Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?

[Robert Lynn]

Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG

Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of
air at same pressure.  So should be able to use an air gap that is
bigger.

Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2
that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C
I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2
density (density equivalent of about 8bar).

Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated
temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap,
though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures.

Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing
sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil.

On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder  wrote:
> Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding
>
> It also appears that you can buy "vintage" tungsten spark plugs. Terry
> mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other
> or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs.
>
> Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or
> blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..)
>
> Guenter, thanks for the schematic links..
>
> - Brad
> p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that
> Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that
> they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.
>

[Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Mistaken notions about human populations and longevity

[Jed Rothwell]

I would like to sound off on a pet peeve of mine. Completely unrelated to
cold fusion, but it is technical.

The mass media and many books make some profoundly dumb mistakes about
statistics as they relate to demography, longevity, actuarial tables and so
on. Some examples --


People misunderstand the concept of average lifespan. You often read that
back in colonial times, the average lifespan was 40 so most people were
dead by age 50. That is absurd! Here is a typical example:

" The life expectancy of a colonial was short. As many as 50% of all women
died in childbirth or from childbed disease. . . . Individuals in their
forties and fifties during the 17th century were considered 'old.'
 Statistics peering back to the 18th century indicate the average life
expectancy was the age of 45!"

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~knappdb/colonial_american_marriage.htm


No, people in their forties were not considered old. They were considered
middle-aged, and lucky. Infant mortality skewed the overall lifespan to
around 45 years in colonial American, but a person who survived to age 20
was likely to live to 60. People were not wizened or old looking at 45.
Look at portraits and you see that. Of course there were many more
diseases, and accidents were more common. Epidemics were somewhat less
common in American than Europe.

Also this estimate of female mortality from childbirth is too high.

"Estimates of maternal mortality, from the 1st recorded unselected series,
in the late 18th century range from 5 to 29/1000."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3511335

With a rate 29/1000, a women having 10 children stood roughly 1 chance in 3
of dying. Women did have many children back then, but probably not 10. The
average family size in 1675 for working people, richer to poorer (yeoman to
labourers) was 5.8, 3.9 and 3.2 people. (Laslet, p. 64). The average house
had 2 or 3 children. Given infant mortality, in a family of 6 I suppose the
wife had ~6 children.

Here are age distributions for England and Wales, 1696:

Age group, percent
0 - 9 27.6%
10 - 19 20.2%
20 - 29 15.5%
30 - 39 11.7%
40 - 49 8.4%
50 - 59 5.8%
60 and above  10.7%

Laslet, p. 103. Those numbers are reliable. They kept good records in the
U.K.

So, 11% lived to their 60s, and there were more elderly people over 60 than
people in their 40s or 50s. The average age was 27.5. One-third to half of
burials recorded in a French 17th century record were listed as "children,"
meaning they were probably under 20 -- too young to be listed by
employment. If you reached age 20 and you were still healthy, and you had
acquired immunity to measles and smallpox, you had a good chance of seeing
age 60. You did not drop dead 7.5 years later.


Another example. Some people claim that the modern diet is safe, and
obesity is not a problem, because longevity is at record highs. This is a
huge mistake.

Diet is not the only contributing factor to longevity, but to the extent it
does contribute, what you are seeing now is the effect of the U.S. diet in
1920. The people now dying in their 80s and 90s grew up in the 1920s, when
the U.S. diet was completely different from what it was today. There was no
fast food, obviously. Heck, I never ate a McDonald's hamburger until I was
in my 20s, and I have not eaten one since. Fast food did not become
widespread until the 1970s, which is also when obesity began to increase
rapidly. I assume there is a causal connection. The invention of
high fructose corn syrup in 1967, and what the NIH calls "portion
distortion" are also probably contributing factors.

You cannot draw conclusions about today's diet from today's longevity. To
find out if our diet is healthy and promotes a longer life, you will have
to wait 30 to 50 years. Chances are, it does not. Today's diets have
caused unprecedented high levels of obesity. Obesity usually shortens
people lives. See:

"Nearly a quarter of teens diabetic or prediabetic, report says"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-parenting/post/nearly-a-quarter-of-teens-diabetic-or-prediabetic-report-says/2012/05/21/gIQAh2MVeU_blog.html?hpid=z3


I can't imagine that a generation with such widespread diabetes will
survive as long as the cohort now dying of old age. When the people who are
now dying were growing up, Type 2 diabetes among people under 30 was
practically unheard of.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?

[ecat builder]

Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

It also appears that you can buy "vintage" tungsten spark plugs. Terry
mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other
or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs.

Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or
blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..)

Guenter, thanks for the schematic links..

- Brad
p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that
Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that
they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.

[Vo]:Solving insoluble problems

[Peter Gluck]

My dear Friends,

The situation has not changed- prolonged
stale season for LENR, Zugzwang for both
LENR+ units. Complex situation. Perhaps
you will find time to read the first part of
a book (Handbook for Solving Insoluble Problems)
I have started:
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2012/05/solving-insoluble-problems.html
Feedback of any kind and intensity welcome
Peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[integral.property.serv...@gmail.com]

G'Day,

See success reported here:  
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg64616.html


Warm Regards,

Reliable

Chemical Engineer wrote:
So a langmuir torch created by the spark  plug gap in the hydrogen 
atmosphere to produce mono hydrogen with reactor temp controlled by:


1) Plug Voltage/gap distance/arc
2) Distance from plug to core/microparticles of Ni/other
3) Removal of heat thru heat xfer surface/fluid
4) Maybe every once in awhile they give the plug a good jolt and arc 
to the powder to fluidize/mix things up a bit to solve quiesence
5). Trick is to operate torch/reactor > 600 C and below melting of 
micropowder.  Too high temp or arcing of torch to powder "welds" the 
powder together and over time kills the highsurface area needed for NAE.


The arc is maintained independently of the workpiece or parts being 
welded. The hydrogen gas is normally diatomic (H_2 ), but where the 
temperatures are over 600 °C (1100 °F) near the arc, the hydrogen 
breaks down into its atomic form, simultaneously absorbing a large 
amount of heat from the arc. When the hydrogen strikes a relatively 
cold surface (i.e., the weld zone), it recombines into its diatomic 
form and rapidly releases the stored heat. The energy in AHW can be 
varied easily by changing the distance between the arc stream and the 
workpiece surface. This process is being replaced by shielded 
metal-arc welding 
, mainly 
because of the availability of inexpensive inert gases.



The arc is maintained independently of the workpiece or parts being 
welded. The hydrogen gas is normally diatomic (H_2 ), but where the 
temperatures are over 600 °C (1100 °F) near the arc, the hydrogen 
breaks down into its atomic form, simultaneously absorbing a large 
amount of heat from the arc. When the hydrogen strikes a relatively 
cold surface (i.e., the weld zone), it recombines into its diatomic 
form and rapidly releases the stored heat. The energy in AHW can be 
varied easily by changing the distance between the arc stream and the 
workpiece surface. This process is being replaced by shielded 
metal-arc welding 
, mainly 
because of the availability of inexpensive inert gases.


On Monday, May 21, 2012, Chemical Engineer wrote:

Guys,

The original DGT lab bench photos also showed what looked like a
spark plug wire and some type of plug (without ceramics) as far as
I could tell.  Also a large ground wire on the reactor block

On Monday, May 21, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Jojo Jaro  wrote:
 


I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the
sooner "replicators" get over this doubt, the sooner we
can focus on the corect replication design.  It does
appear the evidence for sparks being integral to the
process is mounting. 



I agree.

The notion that the spark plugs are only being used as a plug
to fill a hole is ridiculous. There were several spark plugs
lying on the table in one of the photos. Why would they have
several if there were only being used as plugs?

Several spark plugs lying around tells me they are having
trouble with them. I'm only speculating here, but perhaps the
electrodes are fouled by powder.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[Chemical Engineer]

So a langmuir torch created by the spark  plug gap in the hydrogen
atmosphere to produce mono hydrogen with reactor temp controlled by:

1) Plug Voltage/gap distance/arc
2) Distance from plug to core/microparticles of Ni/other
3) Removal of heat thru heat xfer surface/fluid
4) Maybe every once in awhile they give the plug a good jolt and arc to the
powder to fluidize/mix things up a bit to solve quiesence
5). Trick is to operate torch/reactor > 600 C and below melting of
micropowder.  Too high temp or arcing of torch to powder "welds" the powder
together and over time kills the highsurface area needed for NAE.

The arc is maintained independently of the workpiece or parts being welded.
The hydrogen gas is normally diatomic (H2), but where the temperatures are
over 600 °C (1100 °F) near the arc, the hydrogen breaks down into its
atomic form, simultaneously absorbing a large amount of heat from the arc.
When the hydrogen strikes a relatively cold surface (i.e., the weld zone),
it recombines into its diatomic form and rapidly releases the stored heat.
The energy in AHW can be varied easily by changing the distance between the
arc stream and the workpiece surface. This process is being replaced
by shielded
metal-arc welding,
mainly because of the availability of inexpensive inert gases.


The arc is maintained independently of the workpiece or parts being welded.
The hydrogen gas is normally diatomic (H2), but where the temperatures are
over 600 °C (1100 °F) near the arc, the hydrogen breaks down into its
atomic form, simultaneously absorbing a large amount of heat from the arc.
When the hydrogen strikes a relatively cold surface (i.e., the weld zone),
it recombines into its diatomic form and rapidly releases the stored heat.
The energy in AHW can be varied easily by changing the distance between the
arc stream and the workpiece surface. This process is being replaced
by shielded
metal-arc welding,
mainly because of the availability of inexpensive inert gases.

On Monday, May 21, 2012, Chemical Engineer wrote:

> Guys,
>
> The original DGT lab bench photos also showed what looked like a spark
> plug wire and some type of plug (without ceramics) as far as I could tell.
>  Also a large ground wire on the reactor block
>
> On Monday, May 21, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> Jojo Jaro  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the sooner
>>> "replicators" get over this doubt, the sooner we can focus on the corect
>>> replication design.  It does appear the evidence for sparks being integral
>>> to the process is mounting.
>>>
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> The notion that the spark plugs are only being used as a plug to fill a
>> hole is ridiculous. There were several spark plugs lying on the table in
>> one of the photos. Why would they have several if there were only being
>> used as plugs?
>>
>> Several spark plugs lying around tells me they are having trouble with
>> them. I'm only speculating here, but perhaps the electrodes are fouled by
>> powder.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[Chemical Engineer]

Guys,

The original DGT lab bench photos also showed what looked like a spark plug
wire and some type of plug (without ceramics) as far as I could tell.  Also
a large ground wire on the reactor block

On Monday, May 21, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Jojo Jaro  'jth...@hotmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>>
>> I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the sooner
>> "replicators" get over this doubt, the sooner we can focus on the corect
>> replication design.  It does appear the evidence for sparks being integral
>> to the process is mounting.
>>
>
> I agree.
>
> The notion that the spark plugs are only being used as a plug to fill a
> hole is ridiculous. There were several spark plugs lying on the table in
> one of the photos. Why would they have several if there were only being
> used as plugs?
>
> Several spark plugs lying around tells me they are having trouble with
> them. I'm only speculating here, but perhaps the electrodes are fouled by
> powder.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[Jed Rothwell]

Jojo Jaro  wrote:

>
> I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the sooner "replicators"
> get over this doubt, the sooner we can focus on the corect replication
> design.  It does appear the evidence for sparks being integral to the
> process is mounting.
>

I agree.

The notion that the spark plugs are only being used as a plug to fill a
hole is ridiculous. There were several spark plugs lying on the table in
one of the photos. Why would they have several if there were only being
used as plugs?

Several spark plugs lying around tells me they are having trouble with
them. I'm only speculating here, but perhaps the electrodes are fouled by
powder.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Nickel-hydrogen nuclear ash

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com

Hi Robin,

> Either shrinking releases energy or it consumes energy. If it "can no
longer
absorb EUV radiation to further shrink" then it consumes energy. 

Yes, of course. Mills believes that below a certain level this process can
be autocatalytic (if he has not changed that view). It is what happens at
the end of this progression that determines the harder spectrum gammas,
since as you say, "on the way down" it is EUV or soft x-rays only.

> A far more likely source of true gammas is the occasional actual fusion
reaction... 

This is where we now disagree: what happens at the "end game" of hydrogen
reducing to maximum redundancy. Your view is essentially the "virtual
neutron" scenario - or a variety thereof. At one time this was my view as
well.

However, in a revised look at the evidence, I don't think that actual fusion
can happen with any regularity, and consequently the "end result" of the
progression to picometer geometry has to be fast proton expulsion from
another Rydberg nucleus (i.e. another fully reduced hydrino) - which cannot
fuse exothermically. 

Those who believe that two protons can fuse to deuterium must depend on the
miracle of an astoundingly heavy electron - for which there is no proof.
Otherwise it is endothermic or, with a putative nickel to copper
reaction (Focardi's error) where it is easy to see that the forces
preventing fusion are orders of magnitude higher than hydrogen to deuterium.
Ed Storms champions the hydrogen to deuterium camp, and he could be correct
if he can find the numbers to support this without a massively heavy
electron (if I understand his hypothesis). 

In any event, gamma emission most often involve nuclear mass being converted
into energy, but there is no necessity for fusion or actually transmutation-
merely fast protons and a pathway involving mass depletion. The gammas that
result from fast protons are bremsstrahlung, so they are not the highest
energy fusion variety. This alternate viewpoint depends on nuclear mass,
especially from the proton itself, being available without fusion. Since it
is an average mass (with a range) heavier protons can give up mass (from
internal bosons - pion, gluon etc) and still retain atomic identity. IOW the
mass of hydrogen is not a quantum value, and there is no rationale that
predicts it will be a single value instead of a range. In fact, mass
determination of hydrogen, from various labs in various countries varies all
over the place.

Since there is zero evidence of high energy gammas in Ni-H reaction, and
zero evidence of radioactivity in the ash - and only slight evidence of soft
spectrum radiation, we need a scenario that fits the available evidence. The
evidence could change, with more test results becoming public, but as of
now- this "average mass depletion hypothesis" is the only hypothesis which
manages to cover all the facts, IMHO. 

It also explains quiescence, which no other hypothesis can handle :)

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[fusion.calo...@gmail.com]

  
  

Robert,

Well known. See Santilli. See how neutrons kept the Tarpon Springs
facility evacuated even days after complete shut down. See the
reactor that caused the scare in on of Chan's links
(http://hydride.has.it/). Get serious and do a little digging. It
really is exciting! Stay away from knowledge thieves such as comic
books or SciFi. Robots, Face Book, Rockets, Psychology, and other
pseudo science areas are wasting time and effort for those who
experiment, calculate or theorize in the Physics Universe.

 :-) 

Robert Leguillon wrote:

  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

So, arcing in a hydrogen environment produces monoatomic
hydrogen from diatomic hydrogen, eh?

From: jth...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:29:59 +0800

 Seems to me that Woomera (Who appears to be an actual
  eyewitness) is confirming for us the presence, importance and
  use of the 2 spark plugs.  Page 16 does show 2 orange wires
  that appear to be spark plug cables.  (Off-the-shelf Spark
  Plug cables do have brightly colored red or orange
  insulations.  And the picture do show a cable that is about
  the right diameter size for a spark plug cable.) 
  
 I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the
  sooner "replicators" get over this doubt, the sooner we can
  focus on the corect replication design.  It does appear the
  evidence for sparks being integral to the process is
  mounting.  
  
 Those who doubt the use of sparks do bring up a good
  point, sparks will cook and melt the nickel nanostructures. 
  Hence, the point that I keep on repeating, Sparks PLUS
  turbulence is the answer. 
  
 As I mentioned before, Rossi redesigned his reactor from a
  small cylindrical design (original ECat and the EKitten
  design) to a flat "fat cat" design.  The reason for this, IMO,
  is to design a reactor that would be more efficient with
  sparks delivery.  This allowed him to controll his reaction
  better as DGT seems to have found out - that is, control the
  reaction rate with the apllication and modulation of sparks. 
  
 Jojo 
  
  
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: Fang Sen 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
  
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 5:55 PM
  Subject: [Vo]:Defkalion
  
  
  Enlightenment:
  
  "
  The reactor I saw is shown on Defkalion's website
  G'Day,  I wanted to point out some of the items that I
saw are now being shown on Defkalion's website:
  The room is the same room as I visited.
  http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-05_StatusPicturesFinal.pdf
  On page one, the 3rd picture from the left,  in the
middle is a graph of temperature.  Note the cross
hatching.  This is fusion taking place using two items
depicted on page 13 & 14.  This cross
hatching depicts  a VERY high temperature.
  Just look at page 5 at the 'box' It's got hardly
anything connected to it.  Hydrogen, two wires and a
themocouple.
  The test reactor I saw running is on page 23 & 24. 
It only had a hydrogen line at 1bar connected along with
two wires.  These wires were connected to an item shown
on page  13 & 14 in the VERY center of the picture.
I'll leave it to you to find the item.  They are not
connected.  They are VERY important.  Heck there's one
just sitting on the table on page 18. in the rignt
hand picture.  Page 24 is just as I saw it.  Note the
items on each side of the reactor vessel.
  Page 16 actually shows the wire that should be
connected and isn't.  There should be two of them.  That
same item on pages 13, 14 is also sticking out of the
box.
  This test reactor was SO simple.  What is being shown
now, is a plethora of thermo couples to closely measure
the reactor's temperature in various places within the
reactor. This means, to me, that they are trying to
optimise the reactor and possible internal design
changes.  These themocouples are positioned where the
fluid would flow through the reactor.
  Regards,
  Woomera
  "

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[Jojo Jaro]

Dissociation of H2 to H+ is just one thing sparks do efficiently.  The other is 
the efficient formation of Rydberg matter that is probably key to the LENR 
process, as Axil has speculated.

I am speculating that "thermal balance" is key to formation of Rydberg matter 
in abundance.  Spark rate and heat removal must balance to create optimum 
conditions (temps) for the creation of Rydberg matter as H+ cvondense back.  

Manippulation of spark rate and reactor topology is probably key to achieving 
this thermal balance.  I have designed my reactor with these assumptions in 
mind.



Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert Leguillon 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 7:53 PM
  Subject: RE: [Vo]:Defkalion


  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

  So, arcing in a hydrogen environment produces monoatomic hydrogen from 
diatomic hydrogen, eh?


--
  From: jth...@hotmail.com
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
  Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:29:59 +0800


  Seems to me that Woomera (Who appears to be an actual eyewitness) is 
confirming for us the presence, importance and use of the 2 spark plugs.  Page 
16 does show 2 orange wires that appear to be spark plug cables.  
(Off-the-shelf Spark Plug cables do have brightly colored red or orange 
insulations.  And the picture do show a cable that is about the right diameter 
size for a spark plug cable.)

  I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the sooner "replicators" 
get over this doubt, the sooner we can focus on the corect replication design.  
It does appear the evidence for sparks being integral to the process is 
mounting. 

  Those who doubt the use of sparks do bring up a good point, sparks will cook 
and melt the nickel nanostructures.  Hence, the point that I keep on repeating, 
Sparks PLUS turbulence is the answer.

  As I mentioned before, Rossi redesigned his reactor from a small cylindrical 
design (original ECat and the EKitten design) to a flat "fat cat" design.  The 
reason for this, IMO, is to design a reactor that would be more efficient with 
sparks delivery.  This allowed him to controll his reaction better as DGT seems 
to have found out - that is, control the reaction rate with the apllication and 
modulation of sparks.

  Jojo



- Original Message - 
From: Fang Sen 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 5:55 PM
Subject: [Vo]:Defkalion


Enlightenment:

" 
The reactor I saw is shown on Defkalion's website
G'Day,  I wanted to point out some of the items that I saw are now being 
shown on Defkalion's website:

The room is the same room as I visited.

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-05_StatusPicturesFinal.pdf

On page one, the 3rd picture from the left,  in the middle is a graph of 
temperature.  Note the cross hatching.  This is fusion taking place using two 
items depicted on page 13 & 14.  This cross hatching depicts  a VERY high 
temperature.

Just look at page 5 at the 'box' It's got hardly anything connected to it.  
Hydrogen, two wires and a themocouple.

The test reactor I saw running is on page 23 & 24.  It only had a hydrogen 
line at 1bar connected along with two wires.  These wires were connected to an 
item shown on page  13 & 14 in the VERY center of the picture. I'll leave it to 
you to find the item.  They are not connected.  They are VERY important.  Heck 
there's one just sitting on the table on page 18. in the rignt hand picture.  
Page 24 is just as I saw it.  Note the items on each side of the reactor vessel.

Page 16 actually shows the wire that should be connected and isn't.  There 
should be two of them.  That same item on pages 13, 14 is also sticking out of 
the box.

This test reactor was SO simple.  What is being shown now, is a plethora of 
thermo couples to closely measure the reactor's temperature in various places 
within the reactor. This means, to me, that they are trying to optimise the 
reactor and possible internal design changes.  These themocouples are 
positioned where the fluid would flow through the reactor.

Regards,

Woomera

"

[Vo]:Hmmmm

[teamposit...@gmx.us]

H,

http://phys.org/partners/michigan-technological-university/
Hu’s team added carbon dioxide  to 
less than a gram of Li_3 N at 330 degrees Celsius, and the surrounding 
temperature jumped almost immediately to about 1,000 degrees Celsius




"Some like it hot!" Thought provoking, that is, not amusing.

My background includes production and sale of LiH and Li D in the 
1950's. Products also included LiBH4, LiBD4 (For H bomb war heads) and 
LiAlH4 for production and aluminumborohydride and diborane. The diborane 
was alkylated with pentene to yield an adduct used in Navy jets as a 
super fuel. Do the math. MgH2 is by far the most efficient solid storage 
weight wise for H. Do the math. Or go back and check out NY State 
Chemistry Regents Exams of the 1940's. This should be taught in grade 
school now like they do in China. All hydrides undergo deterioration 
over time and have limited shelf life stored in evacuated (or inert 
atmosphere) containers immersed in liquid nitrogen.

RE: [Vo]:Defkalion

[Robert Leguillon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

So, arcing in a hydrogen environment produces monoatomic hydrogen from diatomic 
hydrogen, eh?

From: jth...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:29:59 +0800








Seems to me that Woomera (Who appears to be an 
actual eyewitness) is confirming for us the presence, importance and use of the 
2 spark plugs.  Page 16 does show 2 orange wires that appear to be spark 
plug cables.  (Off-the-shelf Spark Plug cables do have brightly colored red 
or orange insulations.  And the picture do show a cable that is about the 
right diameter size for a spark plug cable.)
 
I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but 
the sooner "replicators" get over this doubt, the sooner we can focus on the 
corect replication design.  It does appear the evidence for sparks being 
integral to the process is mounting. 
 
Those who doubt the use of sparks do bring up a 
good point, sparks will cook and melt the nickel nanostructures.  Hence, 
the point that I keep on repeating, Sparks PLUS turbulence is the 
answer.
 
As I mentioned before, Rossi redesigned his reactor 
from a small cylindrical design (original ECat and the EKitten design) to a 
flat 
"fat cat" design.  The reason for this, IMO, is to design a reactor that 
would be more efficient with sparks delivery.  This allowed him to controll 
his reaction better as DGT seems to have found out - that is, control the 
reaction rate with the apllication and modulation of sparks.
 
Jojo
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Fang Sen 
  
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 5:55 PM
  Subject: [Vo]:Defkalion
  
Enlightenment:

" 
  The reactor I saw is shown on Defkalion's website
  G'Day,  
  I wanted to point out some of the items that I saw are now being shown on 
  Defkalion's website:
  The 
  room is the same room as I visited.
  http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-05_StatusPicturesFinal.pdf
  On 
  page one, the 3rd picture from the left,  in the middle is 
  a graph of temperature.  Note the cross hatching.  This is 
  fusion taking place using two items depicted on page 13 & 14.  
  This cross hatching depicts  a VERY high temperature.
  Just 
  look at page 5 at the 'box' It's got hardly anything connected to it.  
  Hydrogen, two wires and a themocouple.
  The 
  test reactor I saw running is on page 23 & 24.  It only had a 
  hydrogen line at 1bar connected along with two wires.  These wires were 
  connected to an item shown on page  13 & 14 in the VERY center 
  of the picture. I'll leave it to you to find the item.  They 
  are not connected.  They are VERY important.  
  Heck there's one just sitting on the table on page 18. in the rignt 
  hand picture.  Page 24 is just as I saw it.  Note the items on 
  each side of the reactor vessel.
  Page 
  16 actually shows the wire that should be connected and isn't.  There 
  should be two of them.  That same item on pages 13, 14 is also sticking 
  out of the box.
  This 
  test reactor was SO simple.  What is being shown now, is a plethora 
  of thermo couples to closely measure the reactor's temperature in various 
  places within the reactor. This means, to me, that they are trying 
  to optimise the reactor and possible internal design changes.  These 
  themocouples are positioned where the fluid would flow through the 
  reactor.
  Regards,
  Woomera"



  

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion

[Jojo Jaro]

Seems to me that Woomera (Who appears to be an actual eyewitness) is confirming 
for us the presence, importance and use of the 2 spark plugs.  Page 16 does 
show 2 orange wires that appear to be spark plug cables.  (Off-the-shelf Spark 
Plug cables do have brightly colored red or orange insulations.  And the 
picture do show a cable that is about the right diameter size for a spark plug 
cable.)

I know I am harping on this spark plug thing, but the sooner "replicators" get 
over this doubt, the sooner we can focus on the corect replication design.  It 
does appear the evidence for sparks being integral to the process is mounting. 

Those who doubt the use of sparks do bring up a good point, sparks will cook 
and melt the nickel nanostructures.  Hence, the point that I keep on repeating, 
Sparks PLUS turbulence is the answer.

As I mentioned before, Rossi redesigned his reactor from a small cylindrical 
design (original ECat and the EKitten design) to a flat "fat cat" design.  The 
reason for this, IMO, is to design a reactor that would be more efficient with 
sparks delivery.  This allowed him to controll his reaction better as DGT seems 
to have found out - that is, control the reaction rate with the apllication and 
modulation of sparks.

Jojo



  - Original Message - 
  From: Fang Sen 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 5:55 PM
  Subject: [Vo]:Defkalion


  Enlightenment:

  " 
  The reactor I saw is shown on Defkalion's website
  G'Day,  I wanted to point out some of the items that I saw are now being 
shown on Defkalion's website:

  The room is the same room as I visited.

  http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-05_StatusPicturesFinal.pdf

  On page one, the 3rd picture from the left,  in the middle is a graph of 
temperature.  Note the cross hatching.  This is fusion taking place using two 
items depicted on page 13 & 14.  This cross hatching depicts  a VERY high 
temperature.

  Just look at page 5 at the 'box' It's got hardly anything connected to it.  
Hydrogen, two wires and a themocouple.

  The test reactor I saw running is on page 23 & 24.  It only had a hydrogen 
line at 1bar connected along with two wires.  These wires were connected to an 
item shown on page  13 & 14 in the VERY center of the picture. I'll leave it to 
you to find the item.  They are not connected.  They are VERY important.  Heck 
there's one just sitting on the table on page 18. in the rignt hand picture.  
Page 24 is just as I saw it.  Note the items on each side of the reactor vessel.

  Page 16 actually shows the wire that should be connected and isn't.  There 
should be two of them.  That same item on pages 13, 14 is also sticking out of 
the box.

  This test reactor was SO simple.  What is being shown now, is a plethora of 
thermo couples to closely measure the reactor's temperature in various places 
within the reactor. This means, to me, that they are trying to optimise the 
reactor and possible internal design changes.  These themocouples are 
positioned where the fluid would flow through the reactor.

  Regards,

  Woomera

  "

  

[Vo]:Defkalion

[Fang Sen]

Enlightenment:

 "
 The reactor I saw is shown on Defkalion's website
 G'Day, I wanted to point out some of the items that I saw are now being shown 
on Defkalion's website:
 The room is the same room as I visited.
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/2012-05_StatusPicturesFinal.pdf 
 On page one, the 3rd picture from the left, in the middle is a graph of 
temperature. Note the cross hatching. This is fusion taking place using two 
items depicted on page 13 & 14. This cross hatching depicts a VERY high 
temperature.
 Just look at page 5 at the 'box' It's got hardly anything connected to it. 
Hydrogen, two wires and a themocouple.
 The test reactor I saw running is on page 23 & 24. It only had a hydrogen line 
at 1bar connected along with two wires. These wires were connected to an item 
shown on page 13 & 14 in the VERY center of the picture. I'll leave it to you 
to find the item. They are not connected. They are VERY important. Heck there's 
one just sitting on the table on page 18. in the rignt hand picture. Page 24 is 
just as I saw it. Note the items on each side of the reactor vessel.
 Page 16 actually shows the wire that should be connected and isn't. There 
should be two of them. That same item on pages 13, 14 is also sticking out of 
the box.
 This test reactor was SO simple. What is being shown now, is a plethora of 
thermo couples to closely measure the reactor's temperature in various places 
within the reactor. This means, to me, that they are trying to optimise the 
reactor and possible internal design changes. These themocouples are positioned 
where the fluid would flow through the reactor.
 Regards,
 Woomera
"