[Vo]:The sounds of LENR

[Axil Axil]

The sounds produce by the LENR reaction may be coming from Bosenova events
when EMF Black Holes explode as observed by Dr. Kim. I predict that the
sounds that are coming from the E Cat are a multitude of popping noises.
When Rossi hears this sound through his stethoscope, he knows that the LENR
reaction is progressing nicely.

[image: Thumbnail]

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[mixent]

In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2015 21:57:52 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
You have a bug in your program. Charge needs to conserved.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

Before Robin corrects my numbers, I have fixed them myself, and, re-running
the same scenarios, the reactions are, without exception, endothermic!
Even taking into account subsequent decays.  (There's something mysterious
in that.)

I guess that's one way to disqualify a potential theory.  My sincere
apologies for all of the email.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:NEW LIVE Steorn Webinars Announced - Product Demonstrations

[Craig Brown]

Bit of News for you...Steorn will conduct a series of LIVE interactive Webinars beginning on October 28th.The webinars are an introduction to their free energy technology Orbo Powercube.They will demo the tech, explain how the components work and field questions.Link to register for the FREE Live webinar is in the article.http://freeenergy.news/steorn/exclusive-live-steorn-webinars-on-orbo-powercube/Cheers,CraigFreeEnergy.News 

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[mixent]

In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:09:51 -0500:
Hi Eric,

Try starting out with radioactive nuclei, and ending up with stable nuclei. That
should swing the tide in your favour. Often removing a neutron from an unstable
nucleus will make it stable, and adding a proton to another unstable nucleus can
make it stable, so pion exchange could turn two unstable nuclei into two stable
nuclei, and produce energy at the same time. This may result in a method of
stabilizing radioactive nuclei.

>Before Robin corrects my numbers, I have fixed them myself, and, re-running
>the same scenarios, the reactions are, without exception, endothermic!
>Even taking into account subsequent decays.  (There's something mysterious
>in that.)
>
>I guess that's one way to disqualify a potential theory.  My sincere
>apologies for all of the email.
>
>Eric
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:the Darden interview does good to LENR

[Peter Gluck]

however LENR could accept that it is something really new
see

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/09/sep-28-bit-about-lenr-and-neophobia.html

Peter


Peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

[Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

Hi,

I just read about an interesting characteristic of the nucleon-nucleon
interaction (e.g., the scattering of a proton with a neutron or a proton
with a proton or a neutron with a neutron).  I wonder whether this
characteristic is behind what we've been referring to here as "neutron
tunneling" or "neutron stripping" in earlier posts to this list.

This characteristic is called the "one pion exchange potential," and it can
be seen in low-energy neutron-proton scattering experiments (< ~ 20 MeV).
In these experiments a neutron becomes a proton and a proton becomes a
neutron through the exchange of a charged pi meson, or pion.  In the
scattering experiments the pion is not a real pion but a virtual one,
limited by the constraints of the uncertainty principle.  For this reason
it has a very short range, on the order of femtometers, which is the range
at which nuclear reactions take place.

To see how virtual pion exchange works in an experimental context, consider
a neutron that is incident upon a proton.  The outgoing neutron will
scatter in any number of angles, with differing probabilities.  A likely
scenario is that the neutron will scatter at a small angle -- some angle
close to 0 degrees, for example.  In these cases the neutron is deflected a
little bit from its initial trajectory.  In other cases it will scatter
into a larger angle, perhaps up to 90 degrees or more.  These outcomes are
seen less and less at larger angles.

Where things get weird is that beyond a certain angle the probability
starts to increase again and reaches a maximum comparable to the small
scattering angles.  To the observer this looks as though what is happening
is that the neutron is incident upon the proton, and the neutron transfers
all of its momentum to the proton, and the proton then leaves the
scattering along a trajectory similar to the one in which the neutron
entered it.  These interactions occur with a probability that is comparable
to the small-angle scatterings.

For a number of reasons that go beyond my knowledge of the system,
physicists prefer a different explanation for what is happening in this
second case.  Instead of an account in which the momentum is transferred
from the incident neutron to the outgoing proton, this second case is
explained by the neutron becoming a proton, and the proton becoming a
neutron, and the neutron-now-proton continuing on its way at a small
deflection angle.  In this account there is a virtual pion that is
exchanged between the neutron and the proton, which causes the proton to
become a neutron and vice versa.  In one direction the exchange involves a
positively charged pion, and in another direction it involves a negatively
charged pion.  Because these pions have ~ 134 MeV mass, their range is
quite short, and beyond this range, the effect becomes negligible.

What I wonder is what the distribution of the range of this interaction
looks like going out one or two standard deviations, sort of like the
high-energy tail in the Boltzmann distribution.  Perhaps over the duration
of a low-energy np scattering, the virtual pion can only make it out to
several femtometers before the uncertainty principle makes it improbable.
But if there's a long-range tail to this kind of interaction, which occurs
with less probability, longer range interactions might be able to occur at
significant probabilities when considered over longer periods of time.

If so, we would not have a ~ 1GeV rest-mass neutron traveling from a 7Li to
a nickel nucleus, but instead a ~ 134 MeV virtual pion being exchanged
between a neutron in the 7Li and a proton in the nickel nucleus, causing
them to change into one another.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[mixent]

In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:56:26 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>If so, we would not have a ~ 1GeV rest-mass neutron traveling from a 7Li to
>a nickel nucleus, but instead a ~ 134 MeV virtual pion being exchanged
>between a neutron in the 7Li and a proton in the nickel nucleus, causing
>them to change into one another.

...However I does raise an interesting possibility. Might 2 radioactive nuclei
utilize pion exchange to both become stable?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 5:31 PM,  wrote:

...However I does raise an interesting possibility. Might 2 radioactive
> nuclei
> utilize pion exchange to both become stable?
>

My initial thought was that the change would result in a very short-lived
radioisotope which would decay into two stable species, e.g., by ejecting
the newly excess proton.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 5:04 PM,  wrote:

This would change the Li7 into Be7 and e.g. the Ni58 into Co58. The
> reaction as
> a whole is endothermic, and both Be7 & Co58 are radioactive.
>

The endothermic part is problematic.  That suggests that 7Li is not
involved.  I wonder which relevant reactions are exothermic.  (I'm hoping
to getting around to modeling these transitions in the next few days.)

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[mixent]

In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:56:26 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>If so, we would not have a ~ 1GeV rest-mass neutron traveling from a 7Li to
>a nickel nucleus, but instead a ~ 134 MeV virtual pion being exchanged
>between a neutron in the 7Li and a proton in the nickel nucleus, causing
>them to change into one another.

This would change the Li7 into Be7 and e.g. the Ni58 into Co58. The reaction as
a whole is endothermic, and both Be7 & Co58 are radioactive.

Or alternatively the Li7 would become He7 and the Ni58 would become Cu58. Again
unstable nuclei, and I'm pretty sure it would be endothermic, without even doing
the calculation.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 5:31 PM,  wrote:

...However I does raise an interesting possibility. Might 2 radioactive
> nuclei
> utilize pion exchange to both become stable?
>

Yet another possibility -- the pion exchange happens simultaneously with
the decay of the light isotope to stable daughters, so that the entire
thing is exothermic and yields a stable outcome.  I suppose it would all
need to happen in a single step to work out energetically.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Bob Higgins]

If I put on my Don Hotson hat and *-try-* to consider his description of
the proton, neutron, and the strong force, could it provide some insight?
Hotson considers that protons and neutrons are composed of epos, in an
orthogonal condensate in 10 dimensions. There are no quarks - just the
electron-positron pairs in degenerate orbit (an epo). The hard diameters of
the proton and neutron are essentially set by the orbital radius of the epo
(something like 1.8 fm if I recall); as the nucleons approach closer than
this, the "strong force" becomes a hard repulsive force as the epos run
into each other.  A proton has a positive charge because it has a nucleon
valence electron hole in its 10 dimensional condensate of epos and a
neutron is neutral because it has an equal number of full epos.  When the
neutron and proton approach each other, the strong attractive force is the
exchange force as an epo begins to orbit back and forth between the proton
and neutron (in analog with electron exchange in chemical bonds between
nuclei).  In this exchange, the nuclear valence electron hole can switch
between the two nucleons, causing the charge to switch back and forth - an
apparent switch of each nucleon between proton and neutron.

In conventional nuclear theory, there is a bad conflict between the
measured nucleon density and apparent orbital magic-ness.  From
measurements, nucleons appear to be too tightly packed to actually orbit a
common center of mass.  So how can there be "orbital-like magic-ness" in
the nuclear binding force?  It is electron orbital magic-ness that gives us
the periodic table - the magic-ness causing resonances in chemical
molecular binding.  But with the nucleons too tightly packed to orbit in
the conventional sense around the nucleus center of mass, it is still
possible that the nucleons have "virtual" orbiting, even if the nucleon
centers are fixed into a lattice.  In a lattice, the epo exchange coupling
can produce resonances around and through the lattice to bind the nucleons
(into a lattice).  It can appear that a proton is orbiting the lattice
because it is changing into a neutron and its adjacent nucleon changes to a
proton; a process that continues around the lattice in a resonant ring (for
example).  Imagine in a nuclear lattice how many orthogonal exchange
resonances like this could occur - it will depend on the number of
nucleons.  These exchange force lattice resonances may provide the observed
magic-ness in the nuclear binding force.  This is my extension of Hotson's
description of the nucleons and their binding.

Is it possible to take this non-conventional "understanding" of the nucleus
and apply it to the interaction you are describing?

Bob Higgins

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just read about an interesting characteristic of the nucleon-nucleon
> interaction (e.g., the scattering of a proton with a neutron or a proton
> with a proton or a neutron with a neutron).  I wonder whether this
> characteristic is behind what we've been referring to here as "neutron
> tunneling" or "neutron stripping" in earlier posts to this list.
>
> This characteristic is called the "one pion exchange potential," and it
> can be seen in low-energy neutron-proton scattering experiments (< ~ 20
> MeV).  In these experiments a neutron becomes a proton and a proton becomes
> a neutron through the exchange of a charged pi meson, or pion.  In the
> scattering experiments the pion is not a real pion but a virtual one,
> limited by the constraints of the uncertainty principle.  For this reason
> it has a very short range, on the order of femtometers, which is the range
> at which nuclear reactions take place.
>
> To see how virtual pion exchange works in an experimental context,
> consider a neutron that is incident upon a proton.  The outgoing neutron
> will scatter in any number of angles, with differing probabilities.  A
> likely scenario is that the neutron will scatter at a small angle -- some
> angle close to 0 degrees, for example.  In these cases the neutron is
> deflected a little bit from its initial trajectory.  In other cases it will
> scatter into a larger angle, perhaps up to 90 degrees or more.  These
> outcomes are seen less and less at larger angles.
>
> Where things get weird is that beyond a certain angle the probability
> starts to increase again and reaches a maximum comparable to the small
> scattering angles.  To the observer this looks as though what is happening
> is that the neutron is incident upon the proton, and the neutron transfers
> all of its momentum to the proton, and the proton then leaves the
> scattering along a trajectory similar to the one in which the neutron
> entered it.  These interactions occur with a probability that is comparable
> to the small-angle scatterings.
>
> For a number of reasons that go beyond my knowledge of the system,
> physicists prefer a different explanation for what is happening in this

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

Is it possible to take this non-conventional "understanding" of the nucleus
> and apply it to the interaction you are describing?
>

Possibly.  It seems related.  It seems like an implication would be that we
would have to set aside pion exchange in favor of this alternate
description.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Axil Axil]

Pions are produced by the vacuum. If the vacuum can be excited, the strong
force can be modified through the influence of the vacuum on pion
production. Everything emerges through the vacuum. The vacuum is
fundamental.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 7:27 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Bob Higgins 
> wrote:
>
> Is it possible to take this non-conventional "understanding" of the
>> nucleus and apply it to the interaction you are describing?
>>
>
> Possibly.  It seems related.  It seems like an implication would be that
> we would have to set aside pion exchange in favor of this alternate
> description.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fortune mag. interviews Tom Darden

[Teslaalset]

And gues who’s trying to troll the article’s comments: Krivit and Yugo.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

> From Jed:
>
>
>
> >>
> http://fortune.com/2015/09/27/ceo-cherokee-investment-partners-low-energy-nuclear-reaction/
>
>
>
> Excerpt:
>
>
>
> Q: What changed your mind?
>
>
>
> A: Scientists get locked into paradigms until the paradigm shifts. Then
> everyone happily shifts to the new truth and no one apologizes for being so
> stupid before. Low temperature fusion could be consistent with existing
> theories, we just don’t know how. It’s like when physicists say that
> according to the laws of aerodynamics bumblebees can’t fly but they do.
>
>
>
> Good response.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> OrionWorks.com
>
> zazzle.com/orionworks
>

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

I've worked out a simple model, and here are some reactions:

$ python scripts/reactions.py "Li+Cu, Li+Fe, Li+Ni, d+Cu, d+Fe, d+Ni, d+Li"
--model pion-exchange
d + 61Ni → 2·p + 62Ni + 1082 keVn-transfer, stable
d + 57Fe → 2·p + 58Fe + 531 keV n-transfer, stable
7Li + 61Ni → 3He + 4He + 62Ni + 76 keV  n-transfer, stable,
α
7Li + 61Ni → 7Be + 62Ni + 1663 keV  n-transfer, →ε
7Li + 57Fe → 7Be + 58Fe +  keV  n-transfer, →ε
7Li + 54Fe → 7Be + 55Fe + 365 keV   n-transfer, →ε
7Li + 58Ni → 7Be + 59Ni + 66 keVn-transfer, →β+, →ε


I'm guessing that all of these reactions are only energetic if the pion
exchange occurs simultaneously with the decay to lighter daughters, as is
being modeled here.  The last reaction there would result in annihilation
gammas if it occurred at any significant rate.  Note the two 62Ni-producing
reactions, which are relevant to the Lugano test.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:one pion exchange potential (OPEP) and "neutron tunneling" in LENR

[Eric Walker]

I wrote:

I'm guessing that all of these reactions are only energetic if the pion
> exchange occurs simultaneously with the decay to lighter daughters, as is
> being modeled here.
>

This turns out not to have been true.  A followup check indicated that
there were several reactions in the earlier list in which there was no
subsequent decay to lighter daughters, and yet the pion exchange ended up
producing an exothermic reaction.  Note also the resulting Q values, which
range from 76 keV to 1.6 MeV, which is very nice in terms of limiting
radiation from fast daughters.

Eric