[Vo]:advises to those who get and those who give funds for LENR research

[Peter Gluck]

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/06/june-18-206-advises-to-those-who-get.html

more info today, anyway

peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Jones Beene]

From: Eric Walker 

Bob Higgins wrote:

But, photonic leakage still doesn't explain the measured Shawyer EM drive 
thrust.

If this is true, then I like the anisotropic neutrino explanation that has been 
floated here sometime back.  Presumably the neutrinos would come from electron 
capture (or possibly beta decay).

Eric,

A simpler explanation could be this: entangled photons couple better (to the 
vacuum) than does the same flux of un-entangled photons.

The analogy would be this: ice-treads couple better to ice than ice-skates. The 
ratio probably exceeds the 100,000:1 shortfall of the Shawyer.

RE: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Russ George]

Clearly all of the ‘inside the box’ ideas cannot possibly explain the EM Drive 
thrust, that’s the interesting bit, oh no ‘bits’ are inside the dang box as 
well… now what?

 

From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 7:28 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, if you want to see how the photons can leak 
out, just have a look at the Fabry-Perot etalon.  At resonance it is a high Q 
filter, even though the boundaries are highly reflecting.

But, photonic leakage still doesn't explain the measured Shawyer EM drive 
thrust.  The Shawyer tests are showing 0.3-0.9 mN/W of thrust, but photonic 
thrust is only 3E-6 mN/W, a ratio of >100,000!  Interestingly, Shawyer is also 
quoting present device Q's of about 50,000 which makes his thrust on the same 
order as Q x photonic thrust.

 

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Berry mailto:berry.joh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Well, particles (electrons, protons, atoms, bucky balls, ignored cats) fired at 
a screen still produce an interference...

 

So maybe protons could tunnel through a barrier if there is a wave from another 
proton that interferes?

 

Could this be how tunneling works?

 

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Jones Beene mailto:jone...@pacbell.net> > wrote:

Oops… obviously, that should read “photon” instead of “proton”:

If photons [not protons] can become paired and out-of-phase due to some kind of 
cavity resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is that they can 
escape metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at risk from microwave 
ovens. 

If you are old enough to remember Ralph Nader and the Corvair, another low 
point from that era was the microwave oven scare. Supposedly, this was 
debunked, but now … who knows. There certainly could be oven configurations 
which unknowingly promote photon-pairing more than others. Recently, there are 
reports of ovens with plastic windows, instead of glass windows, melting. This 
could be due to the spacing in the see-thru metal grids… who knows?

 

 

Re: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Eric Walker]

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

But, photonic leakage still doesn't explain the measured Shawyer EM drive
> thrust.
>

If this is true, then I like the anisotropic neutrino explanation that has
been floated here sometime back.  Presumably the neutrinos would come from
electron capture (or possibly beta decay).

Eric

RE: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Jones Beene]

From: Bob Higgins 

As I mentioned in my previous post, if you want to see how the photons can leak 
out, just have a look at the Fabry-Perot etalon.  At resonance it is a high Q 
filter, even though the boundaries are highly reflecting…. But, photonic 
leakage still doesn't explain the measured Shawyer EM drive thrust….
Good observation, Bob - and it has a familiar ring to it. 
There is a small effect, which the inventor wants to promote as a large effect. 
That is the best description of what Rossi-gate is all about….
In the case of the EM drive, the one detail which is missing to explain how it 
“could work” is some kind of “photon multiplication”. The Mills’ effect would 
offer an explanation for that. I have little doubt that someone has suggested 
this fringe-marriage before, but it is not worth the effort to google.

Re: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[John Berry]

No Jones, I was proposing that IF photons for make their way through a
barrier due to a cancelled waveform, then maybe protons as per your typo,
or other particles could also do so if their quantum wave functions
cancelled, and just MAYBE this is related to quantum tunneling.

And even then I'm not sure I was being serious, but then again I'm not
certain that I'm not being either.

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> *From:* John Berry
>
> Well, particles (electrons, protons, atoms, bucky balls, ignored cats)
> fired at a screen still produce an interference... So maybe protons could
> tunnel through a barrier if there is a wave from another proton that
> interferes?
>
> John,
>
> Are you suggesting that the cone be filled with hydrogen in order to
> promote tunneling which then promotes photon pairing? That would be
> unlikely, since protons would then be lost to the continued operation of
> the device making it difficult to control. BTW - Here is the paper:
>
> http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/adva/6/6/10.1063/1.4953807
>
> Note that if the pairing hypothesis is correct, then the cone angle could
> be important as well as the gas fill or vacuum, and other dimensions, as
> well as the geometric ratios which would favor phase conjugation. One
> would think a parabola would be favored over a cone. These parameters can
> be calculated based on the frequency of 2.45 MHz, the wavelength of about
> 12 cm. This explains why some designs work and others do not.
>
> The quantum energy of a microwave photon (using standard commercial
> magnetron) is only in the micro-eV range (10^-5 eV) which is well below
> ionizing. The interaction of photons at such low energy is limited to
> molecular rotation and torsion if there is a gaseous medium in the device, 
> instead
> of vacuum.
>
> A dilute gas fill, such that the mean free path of the atoms (or
> molecules) was kept at wavelength resonance with the photons, could help
> (or hurt) depending on the design.
>
>
> *http://www.physics-astronomy.com/2016/06/new-paper-claims-that-em-drive-doesnt.html#.V2LfsvkrKVM*
> 
>
> If protons can become paired and out-of-phase due to some kind of cavity
> resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is that they can
> escape metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at risk from
> microwave
>
>

RE: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Jones Beene]

From: John Berry 

Well, particles (electrons, protons, atoms, bucky balls, ignored cats) fired at 
a screen still produce an interference... So maybe protons could tunnel through 
a barrier if there is a wave from another proton that interferes?

John,
Are you suggesting that the cone be filled with hydrogen in order to promote 
tunneling which then promotes photon pairing? That would be unlikely, since 
protons would then be lost to the continued operation of the device making it 
difficult to control. BTW - Here is the paper:
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/adva/6/6/10.1063/1.4953807
Note that if the pairing hypothesis is correct, then the cone angle could be 
important as well as the gas fill or vacuum, and other dimensions, as well as 
the geometric ratios which would favor phase conjugation. One would think a 
parabola would be favored over a cone. These parameters can be calculated based 
on the frequency of 2.45 MHz, the wavelength of about 12 cm. This explains why 
some designs work and others do not.
The quantum energy of a microwave photon (using standard commercial magnetron) 
is only in the micro-eV range (10^-5 eV) which is well below ionizing. The 
interaction of photons at such low energy is limited to molecular rotation and 
torsion if there is a gaseous medium in the device, instead of vacuum.
A dilute gas fill, such that the mean free path of the atoms (or molecules) was 
kept at wavelength resonance with the photons, could help (or hurt) depending 
on the design. 
http://www.physics-astronomy.com/2016/06/new-paper-claims-that-em-drive-doesnt.html#.V2LfsvkrKVM
 

 
If protons can become paired and out-of-phase due to some kind of cavity 
resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is that they can escape 
metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at risk from microwave 

Re: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Bob Higgins]

As I mentioned in my previous post, if you want to see how the photons can
leak out, just have a look at the Fabry-Perot etalon.  At resonance it is a
high Q filter, even though the boundaries are highly reflecting.

But, photonic leakage still doesn't explain the measured Shawyer EM drive
thrust.  The Shawyer tests are showing 0.3-0.9 mN/W of thrust, but photonic
thrust is only 3E-6 mN/W, a ratio of >100,000!  Interestingly, Shawyer is
also quoting present device Q's of about 50,000 which makes his thrust on
the same order as Q x photonic thrust.

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 8:12 AM, John Berry  wrote:

> Well, particles (electrons, protons, atoms, bucky balls, ignored cats)
> fired at a screen still produce an interference...
>
> So maybe protons could tunnel through a barrier if there is a wave from
> another proton that interferes?
>
> Could this be how tunneling works?
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> Oops… obviously, that should read “photon” instead of “proton”:
>>
>> If photons [not protons] can become paired and out-of-phase due to some
>> kind of cavity resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is
>> that they can escape metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at
>> risk from microwave ovens.
>>
>> If you are old enough to remember Ralph Nader and the Corvair, another
>> low point from that era was the microwave oven scare. Supposedly, this
>> was debunked, but now … who knows. There certainly could be oven
>> configurations which unknowingly promote photon-pairing more than
>> others. Recently, there are reports of ovens with plastic windows, instead
>> of glass windows, melting. This could be due to the spacing in the see-thru
>> metal grids… who knows?
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[John Berry]

Well, particles (electrons, protons, atoms, bucky balls, ignored cats)
fired at a screen still produce an interference...

So maybe protons could tunnel through a barrier if there is a wave from
another proton that interferes?

Could this be how tunneling works?

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Oops… obviously, that should read “photon” instead of “proton”:
>
> If photons [not protons] can become paired and out-of-phase due to some
> kind of cavity resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is
> that they can escape metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at
> risk from microwave ovens.
>
> If you are old enough to remember Ralph Nader and the Corvair, another
> low point from that era was the microwave oven scare. Supposedly, this
> was debunked, but now … who knows. There certainly could be oven
> configurations which unknowingly promote photon-pairing more than others.
> Recently, there are reports of ovens with plastic windows, instead of glass
> windows, melting. This could be due to the spacing in the see-thru metal
> grids… who knows?
>

RE: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Jones Beene]

Oops… obviously, that should read “photon” instead of “proton”:

If photons [not protons] can become paired and out-of-phase due to some kind of 
cavity resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is that they can 
escape metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at risk from microwave 
ovens. 

If you are old enough to remember Ralph Nader and the Corvair, another low 
point from that era was the microwave oven scare. Supposedly, this was 
debunked, but now … who knows. There certainly could be oven configurations 
which unknowingly promote photon-pairing more than others. Recently, there are 
reports of ovens with plastic windows, instead of glass windows, melting. This 
could be due to the spacing in the see-thru metal grids… who knows?

RE: [Vo]:EM Drive powered by entangled photons

[Jones Beene]

From: Russ George 

OK Dr. Photon just how do we like this news on the EM Drive and the paired out 
of phase photons? 
http://www.physics-astronomy.com/2016/06/new-paper-claims-that-em-drive-doesnt.html#.V2LfsvkrKVM
 

 


This is most interesting – and also relevant to many of us in a more 
down-to-earth way.

If protons can become paired and out-of-phase due to some kind of cavity 
resonance effect, such that one result of the pairing is that they can escape 
metal confinement, then almost every citizen is at risk from microwave ovens. 

If you are old enough to remember Ralph Nader and the Corvair, another low 
point from that era was the microwave oven scare. Supposedly, this was 
debunked, but now … who knows. There certainly could be oven configurations 
which unknowingly promote photon-pairing more than others. Recently, there are 
reports of ovens with plastic windows, instead of glass windows, melting. This 
could be due to the spacing in the see-thru metal grids… who knows?