Re: [Vo]:Is bulk Pd cold fusion an H-D reaction?

2022-02-04 Thread CB Sites
I really enjoy thinking about this problem.   There are materials
which will absorb blue and violet light and send out 2 infrared photons per
incident photon.  I know Scott Chubb from way back was proposing a
mechanism with a similar result where a gamma was absorbed in the periodic
potential of the lattice and re-released as multiple phonons distributed
across the crystal.   I really like how the Chubb brothers worked on it
from the solid state POV.  I think Hagielsteins idea was similar, that
gamma was distributed as phonons (I could never get through his math
to really understand it).   Anyway, with the idea in mind that a single
blue, or violet photon can be split into 2 infrareds from crystal
scattering (it's proposed to be used as a novel coating for solar panels to
improve efficiency),  In the period potential of the Pd, and the math and
spacing are right, maybe it could happen that gamma is shifted.  You might
still see some gamma escape at the surface where conversion may not take
place. Then again, it might not happen at the surface if it's a true
distributed solid state effect requiring an extended periodic potential of
>24 atoms (if I recall correctly). .

Of course; then there is the idea of hydrogen band states over the period
potential (which has been demonstrated on the surface of Ni).  These
extended quantum states provide a potential probability for interaction
that Chubb had worked on. Specifically D/D (the D Bose-Band states). I
don't know if D or a mix of D/H was ever tried but I think the Chubb
brothers had something on that.
.

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:37 AM H LV  wrote:

> In that paper Schwinger refers to one of his earlier papers.
> I believe this paper he presented at the first CF conference is based on
> it:
>
> https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJnuclearene.pdf
>
> In it he puts forward a rough mathematical argument (which I don't pretend
> to understand) as to
> why he thinks H-D fusion is more likely in a lattice.
>
> These two paragraphs grabbed me in particular:
>
> < World War, although the British had begun with radio waves that were called
> high frequency, HF, the need for better resolution led them to VHF, very
> high frequency, which inexorably brought about VHFI, very high frequency
> indeed. I mention this ancient history because, in our study of cold
> fusion, CF, it is useful, and implies no serious loss of relevance, to
> consider VCFI, very cold fusion indeed. That is, we examine the lattice
> state at absolute zero. Then there are no phonon excitations — it is the
> phonon vacuum state — at least initially.>>
>
>  < 25% alters the production rate by a factor of ten million, a degree of
> sensitivity that verges on chaos. In as much as the single parameter Ro/Λ
> combines, albeit crudely, the effects of all the forces at work within the
> lattice, the difficulties encountered in reproducing the cold fusion
> phenomena become more understandable.>>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 11:51 AM Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> The other day Francesco Celani and his friend asked me if I know of any
>> papers that discuss the role of H in the bulk Pd cold fusion. Can H enhance
>> the reaction? Is there an H-D reaction? I said I don't recall any papers
>> like that. It turns out they already found one, which I added to the
>> library:
>>
>> Schwinger, J., *Cold fusion: a hypothesis*. Z. Naturforsch. A, 1990.
>> *45A*: p. 756.
>>
>> https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJcoldfusion.pdf
>>
>> QUOTE:
>>
>> The hypothesis that I now advance has the following ingredients:
>>
>>
>> (1) The claim of Pons and Fleischmann to have realized cold fusion is
>> valid.
>>
>> (2) But, this cold fusion process is not powered by a DD reaction.
>> Rather, it is an HD reaction which feeds on the small contamination of D2O
>> by H2O.
>>
>>
>> Ed Storms has often said there may be an H-D reaction, but I do not think
>> he says this is optimum, or that it enhances the reaction.
>>
>> Here is what I wrote back to Francesco:
>>
>> Ed Storms and others have speculated that a mixture of hydrogen and
>> deuterium might produce different products. You can read Ed's papers for
>> details. I do not recall anyone testing this hypothesis. I do not recall
>> reading a paper that suggested a combination would produce better results.
>> Many people have said that allowing hydrogen contamination of deuterium
>> prevents the reaction with the bulk-Pd - D system. Bockris and others said
>> it was important to prevent exposing heavy water to air, because heavy
>> water is hydrophilic. Bockris used to keep heavy water in a medical IV bag
>> (with no air), and he added it to the cell with an IV tube, which is small.
>> You put the valve at the end of the tube, and open it to add make-up heavy
>> water to the cell.
>>
>> Bockris also said that CO2 contamination of heavy water poisons the
>> reaction.
>>
>>


Re: [Vo]:Is bulk Pd cold fusion an H-D reaction?

2022-02-04 Thread Robin
In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 4 Feb 2022 02:55:20 + (UTC):
Hi,
[snip]
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium_fusion
>Gamma radiation, or lack thereof is the key. Since H-D has no gamma signature

The H-D reaction does have a gamma signature in hot fusion.

If I read it correctly, in a lattice, Schwinger postulated that it does not 
because the particles are slow moving.
However I think this may depend on the actual mechanism behind "tunneling". If 
tunneling involves temporarily borrowing
sufficient energy from the ZPE to overcome the barrier, then the particles may 
not be slow moving at all, at the moment
of fusion, depending on just how much kinetic energy they temporarily acquired.
There would be a threshold amount required to overcome the barrier, but 
anything in excess thereof would remain as
kinetic energy.

> - one point of the paper seems to be that a cold fusion reaction without 
> gammas is by default H-D.
>
>
>  
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk 



Re: [Vo]:Is bulk Pd cold fusion an H-D reaction?

2022-02-04 Thread H LV
In that paper Schwinger refers to one of his earlier papers.
I believe this paper he presented at the first CF conference is based on it:

https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJnuclearene.pdf

In it he puts forward a rough mathematical argument (which I don't pretend
to understand) as to
why he thinks H-D fusion is more likely in a lattice.

These two paragraphs grabbed me in particular:

<>

 <>

Harry




On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 11:51 AM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> The other day Francesco Celani and his friend asked me if I know of any
> papers that discuss the role of H in the bulk Pd cold fusion. Can H enhance
> the reaction? Is there an H-D reaction? I said I don't recall any papers
> like that. It turns out they already found one, which I added to the
> library:
>
> Schwinger, J., *Cold fusion: a hypothesis*. Z. Naturforsch. A, 1990. *45A*:
> p. 756.
>
> https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJcoldfusion.pdf
>
> QUOTE:
>
> The hypothesis that I now advance has the following ingredients:
>
>
> (1) The claim of Pons and Fleischmann to have realized cold fusion is
> valid.
>
> (2) But, this cold fusion process is not powered by a DD reaction. Rather,
> it is an HD reaction which feeds on the small contamination of D2O by H2O.
>
>
>
> Ed Storms has often said there may be an H-D reaction, but I do not think
> he says this is optimum, or that it enhances the reaction.
>
> Here is what I wrote back to Francesco:
>
> Ed Storms and others have speculated that a mixture of hydrogen and
> deuterium might produce different products. You can read Ed's papers for
> details. I do not recall anyone testing this hypothesis. I do not recall
> reading a paper that suggested a combination would produce better results.
> Many people have said that allowing hydrogen contamination of deuterium
> prevents the reaction with the bulk-Pd - D system. Bockris and others said
> it was important to prevent exposing heavy water to air, because heavy
> water is hydrophilic. Bockris used to keep heavy water in a medical IV bag
> (with no air), and he added it to the cell with an IV tube, which is small.
> You put the valve at the end of the tube, and open it to add make-up heavy
> water to the cell.
>
> Bockris also said that CO2 contamination of heavy water poisons the
> reaction.
>
>