Fw: [Vo]:INFORMAVORE's SUNDAY
- Original Message - From: John Harris johnharri...@dodo.com.au To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:INFORMAVORE's SUNDAY - Original Message - From: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de In natural science and technology lies are not relative. Nature is always true and cannot be in error and never lies. Humans can be in error and can lie. But there is absolute truth. And yet paradoxically nature itself is full of lies Moths that look like bees so they are not attacked Insects that look like twigs Birds that look like a part of the tree they are roosting in caterpillars with eyes on the tail end fish with wide open mouths that appear to be safe haven for smaller prey and many many more. John
Re: [Vo]:INFORMAVORE's SUNDAY
- Original Message - From: John Harris johnharri...@dodo.com.au To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [Vo]:INFORMAVORE's SUNDAY - Original Message - - Original Message - From: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de In natural science and technology lies are not relative. Nature is always true and cannot be in error and never lies. Humans can be in error and can lie. But there is absolute truth. And yet paradoxically nature itself is full of lies Moths that look like bees so they are not attacked Insects that look like twigs Birds that look like a part of the tree they are roosting in caterpillars with eyes on the tail end fish with wide open mouths that appear to be safe haven for smaller prey and many many more. What you mean is biological nature and human perception of it. I think this is a projection. There is no untruth in physical nature, it is our mind that lies. And yet in this instance the human mind does not lie We perceive the stick insect and watch while it lunches off the aphids that do not perceive. We recognize the Mopoke on the branch and watch while it makes dinner of the skink that did not recognise it. We see the reverse caterpillar and watch while the butcher bird gets its eyes full of acetic acid because it attacked the wrong end. The biological world is full of deception John
Fw: [Vo]:Rossi 1MW : Why is the energy hidden behind pressboard?
- Original Message - From: John Harris To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi 1MW : Why is the energy hidden behind pressboard? Jed Wrote Also, square reactors are a really, really bad idea. Safety and the Rossi reactor Have only just subscribed but been a lurker for quite a while so I thought to add a comment on a previous discussion about the square design of the reactor water chamber. (wrote this a while ago but didn't post it) I think this is probably a good design at this stage of understanding of the reactor. A cylinder with domed or concave ends is the prefered shape for water heaters and boilers but there is a good understanding of the maximum pressure they will be subject too and the maximum kW power input they will be expected to receive. We all know the result when someone removes the pressure relief or in the case of a wood fired boiler, fires it too enthusiastically, In this case there is a good likelyhood of a quite spectacular failure and there have been cases of houses practically demolished from exploding systems. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bU-I2ZiML0 ) In the Rossi case we have a system where the maximum power from the raction cannot be properly determined and maybe the possibility of thermal run-away so it is fairly well impossible to properly size a relief valve for a cylindrical boiler. A square boiler on the other hand is a good compromise, the bolted on top will distort and begin leaking not far past its design pressure, a long straight seam will fail without much overpressure and do so in an unspectacular fashion - a bit messy and dont stand in the way of the steam but there will be warning signs and the results will probably not be too damaging. a rupture disk in a cylinder would offer some of the same protection but once again they tend to discharge quite violently and still cant be ported to a safe location and retain their simplicity and integrity. John - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:27 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi 1MW : Why is the energy hidden behind pressboard? Man on Bridges manonbrid...@aim.com wrote: In hindsight I'm glad Rossi pursued his approach of building a big system to be shown to the World, which can produce up to 1 MW i.s.o. of showing only a couple of small e-cats with only a couple of kW. I still disagree, vehemently. I think this is a terrible approach, from the business point of view. I think he wasted 10 months on this reactor. This reactor is entirely too big and it serves no useful purpose. It is a crude prototype which the customer will not be able to use for any real world application. Rossi should have done a proper test of a kilowatt scale device back in January. Many venture capitalists and business people have approached me since then, and said they would give him large sums of money and all the support he needs if he will only do a properly instrumented engineering test. In fact I think Rossi did us all a tremendous favor as it just proves that this technology is absolutely mature and through it's basic simplicity and modularity. . . It does not prove a damn thing, because he did not allow independent verification of the claims, and we do not even know who the customer is. It suggests the technology is real. It is further evidence of that, which fits in with previous evidence. It is not proof in the engineering or scientific sense. It does not look mature to me. Obviously you can use modules in this method but I think that is a wacky way to build a megawatt scale reactor. It has way too many individual modules and pipes, and way too many things that can go wrong and will go wrong. Many small cells integrated into a larger device would be better. Also, square reactors are a really, really bad idea. - Jed
[Vo]:Fw: [Vo]:500kW generator was also running during the 5 hours!
If I where running the test I would only want one point of power input and that from the genset - this means that the generator must remain running to power the condensor fans, pumps and control electrics. If the gen set where stopped but there was a sizable extension cord run out from the building there would still be questions. Its a no win situation but I think the most practical and easiest to monitor solution is the gen set supplying all the power for a stand alone test. John - Original Message - From: Larry Ectsnte To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:01 PM Subject: [Vo]:500kW generator was also running during the 5 hours! Is there any reason why there was a 500kW generator running AND hooked up to the E-Cat through the WHOLE test, despite the E-Cat being switched into self-sustain mode? I gave it a tiny percent chance of being possible before, but now there's nothing but a clear scam left of it. Power for start-up (resistive coils that provided heat to the reaction chambers) was provided by the large and loud genset (was making all the noise) you see that is nearly as large as the small shipping container in which the 1 MW E-Cat plant was arranged. Once the reaction chambers got up to temperature, they were maintained by the heat produced by the reaction. I'm not sure why they kept the generator running after that, but I would guess it was for back-up or safety. I'm sure the engineers testing the system made sure what the power levels were at all times. Probably the biggest opening for skeptics will be the continually running genset that is probably rated for 500 kW (my guess), and appears to have been connected by cables to the E-Cat. Source: http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW_E-Cat_Test_Successful/ Anyone have an explanation? Thanks. Also, my first post here. -Larry
Fw: [Vo]:First video from the October 28th, 1 MW E-Cat test event
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:First video from the October 28th, 1 MW E-Cat test event Obviously told to point the camera down most of the time Hard to fudge the input figures when the ecat is powered by a gen set - I like that and very easy to work out the output with those heat exchangers.
Russian Vortex
Posted on OUPower.com By dhillfort Stories on: http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage3478.html http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/09/two_onboard_wat.html http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage3485.html http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16143986method=fullsiteid=93463h eadline=h-2-oil--name_page.html H 2 OIL! Blair plans WATER-fuelled cars By Nigel Nelson TONY Blair wants to turn Britain into the biggest producer of WATER- powered cars - slashing the cost of motoring to an incredible penny a mile. Ministers will announce on Tuesday they are setting up a new UK company to produce the revolutionary vehicles. The firm, OM Energy Ltd, will be partly funded by the Government. The new cars will work by using a small amount of petrol to turn large amounts of water into hydrogen. The exciting breakthrough comes as petrol hit a pound a litre. A top Whitehall insider explained: There have been hydrogen cars before but until now it was too dangerous due to a risk of explosion. The beauty of this new system is that you convert water into hydrogen in the car, which is much safer. It's pure genius. Water is made from two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom and called H20. This new process will efficiently separate the H from the O. The implications for energy saving are huge. I can't tell you how excited we are. The technique has been developed by Russian scientists lured to the UK. Whitehall officials refuse to say how much taxpayers' money has been pumped into the new company but it is understood to be millions. OM Energy has already filed for a worldwide patent of their new system. Eventually it could also be used to power ships by sea water.
Re: Russian Vortex
But it must be true It was in The People !! even if the journalist was illiterate. John - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: Re: Russian Vortex Tony Blair said what?!? Oy veh. - Jed
Re: Russian Vortex
If this story can be sort of interpreted it seems that this is not reformer technology. It seems the hydrogen is being seperated from H20 and burned along with hydrocarbons. Regards JohnH - Original Message - From: Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:37 PM Subject: Re: Russian Vortex Tony Blair said what? Oy veh! My experts must have missed that patent http://tinyurl.com/dmcpe
Re: 90mpg
What does he drink?? But seriously I haven't heard of an LPG conversion doing anything else than less MPG. Is this using standard parts or some new system? 800 quid just sounds like a usual run of the mill job, definitely not enough for anything major. Can you get the name of the conversion place for us? Regards JohnH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 6:23 PM Subject: OT: 90mpg Vo, A friend of mine who is a very good mechanical engineer reckons that the local gas conversion place in Biggin Hill is getting Land Rovers to do 90mpg on LPG with no modification to the engine (yeh!?). It costs about £800. Amazing. R. ... Website http://luna.bton.ac.uk/~roc1 ...
Re: Beta-atmosphere and the Cavity Magnetron
Hi Frank Back in the 70's I used to fly Gliders (sailplanes) out of Gawler in South Australia under the flightpath of the Edinborough Airforce Base. It used to get quite exciting when one was at the 1900ft ceiling and the caribou's came through with supposedly a 2000 ft floor but felt more like a beat up. I think its a fairly long stretch though to compare what can happen when a vortice destroys the lift over one wing of an aircraft and flips it to suggesting the same can happen to a 60 lb round cannonball. Even the vortice off the tips of the small tow plane (usually a Piper Cub in those days) could give you a hard time when going from low tow below the tug to High tow above the tug if one was careless. I am not suggesting the effect is not real - but I would suggest caution in using this analogy. One suprising thing was how long the vortices lasted after they where generated - I have flown into them at least 10Km behind the generating aircraft. Regards JohnH - Original Message - From: Grimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Beta-atmosphere and the Cavity Magnetron At 06:58 am 22/08/2005 +0100, Frank wrote: snip The first sentence of Shoulders The Ugly section reads, = I think Hell has not a clue as to the fury of a bunch of electrons suddenly unleashed. = Could an Alpha-atmosphere smoke ring (closed vortex) be seen as furious; more furious that is than simply blowing out a candle? Very definitely if the vortex is big enough. There have been instances where vortices shed by large airliners, such as the 747 have tipped over smaller airliners following in their wake. To be continued Frank Grimer Having mentioned Hutchison previously in this thread I thought I had better revisit his stuff though not with any great enthusiasm since when I first investigated it I was appalled by his hopelessly disorganised approach. Fortunately, the first reference I came across was a concise summary of the work - NOT written by Hutchison. 8-) == The Hutchison Effect -- An Explanation by Mark A. Solis People often ask, What exactly is the Hutchison Effect? This brief essay is an attempt to answer that question to the satisfaction of the majority. First of all, the Hutchison Effect is a collection of phenomena which were discovered accidentally by John Hutchison during attempts to study the longitudinal waves of Tesla back in 1979. In other words, the Hutchison Effect is not simply a singular effect. It is many. The Hutchison Effect occurs as the result of radio wave interferences in a zone of spatial volume encompassed by high voltage sources, usually a Van de Graff generator, and two or more Tesla coils. The effects produced include levitation of heavy objects, fusion of dissimilar materials such as metal and wood (exactly as portrayed in the movie, The Philadelphia Experiment), the anomalous heating of metals without burning adjacent material, spontaneous fracturing of metals (which separate by sliding in a sideways fashion), and both temporary and permanent changes in the crystalline structure and physical properties of metals. The levitation of heavy objects by the Hutchison Effect is not---repeat not---the result of simple electrostatic or electromagnetic levitation. Claims that these forces alone can explain the phenomenon are patently ridiculous, and easily disproved by merely trying to use such methods to duplicate what the Hutchison Effect has achieved, which has been well documented both on film and videotape, and has been witnessed many times by numerous credentialed scientists and engineers. Challengers should note that their apparatus must be limited to the use of 75 Watts of power from a 120 Volt AC outlet, as that is all that is used by Hutchison's apparatus to levitate a 60-pound cannon ball. The fusion of dissimilar materials, which is exceedingly remarkable, indicates clearly that the Hutchison Effect has a powerful influence on Van der Waals forces. In a striking and baffling contradiction, dissimilar substances can simply come together, yet the individual substances do not dissociate. A block of wood can simply sink into a metal bar, yet neither the metal bar nor the block of wood come apart. Also, there is no evidence of displacement, such as would occur if, for example, one were to sink a stone into a bowl of water. The anomalous heating of metal without any evidence of burning or scorching of the adjacent materials (usually wood) is a clear indication that possibly the nature of heat may not be completely understood. This has far-reaching implications for thermodynamics, which hinges entirely on the presumption of such
Re: Beta-atmosphere and the Cavity Magnetron
Didn't used to have that problem in a sailplane ;-) - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:55 AM Subject: Re: Beta-atmosphere and the Cavity Magnetron There was one in Chicago. But it wasn't a vortex - the engine fell off on one side.
Re: Re: MAHG is a 3 Port Device
What is this centre anode part? From my limited understanding the W grid is a heated cathode and the Sputtered Copper housing is the Anode. Although there was originally some attemp to run a cathode - anode pulsed or wave form signal this seems to have been abandoned in favour of a pulsed heating current to the cathode. Was The MAHG ever built as a triode ? My understanding of a triode is that it had a separate plate in the ion stream to modify the output to the anode. this doesn't appear to have ever been the case. One measurement that doesn't seem to have been made and would be interesting is the differential from cathode to anode and if there is an excess of electrons being carried across in the hydrogen stream. I think tungsten was chosen in the original tube because it is an excellent electron emitter and this effect doesn't appear to have been measured in the MAHG. Regards JohnH - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Re: MAHG is a 3 Port Device From: Jones Beene Although the original device (and the Svetlana tube) was a triode, if you look at the dates of those photos, they are back in Dec '03. It looks like the present approach is diode and that the RF triode was abandoned some time ago and the present config is diode w/ no RF input Agreed. But it is really important to know if the W grid is electrically connected to the center anode. We all await the imminent update You know something we don't? The Silence of the Labs is getting suspicious.
Re: IEEE Article on Plug-In Hybrids
- Original Message - From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:15 PM Subject: Re: IEEE Article on Plug-In Hybrids Unfortunately, this would likely not be the case without some incentives. Most people would pull into their garage and plug in their charger thus adding to the peak load in the summer. They would need an incentive to plug in before going to bed. Power utility controlled switching is used many places to control water heaters etc. easy to put another controlled point in the garage so the utility can switch the car on when the load is needed. Regards JohnH
Re: IEEE Article on Plug-In Hybrids
- Original Message - From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: Re: IEEE Article on Plug-In Hybrids Since when did Australia become a socialist country. ;-) No - Still a overcontrolled duplexed monocracy :-) JohnH
Re: Hydrogen enegetics
Thanks Jones I will Investigate. That looks Ideal JohnH - Original Message - From: Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:03 AM Subject: Re: Hydrogen enegetics - Original Message - From: John Harris The problem I need to reduce the oxygen content below stoichiometric to leave some hydrogen for the atomic reaction . Can anyone suggest any simple way ? Gore-Tex Gore-Tex will pass all of the hydrogen immediately but only some of the oxygen (actually it will pass the O2 eventually but at a much slower rate, so you need to set it up as a filtering system). It might take two or more layers to get to the ratio you want - so you will have to work by trial and error. The Gore company also makes dedicated proton membranes, for which you will pay approximately 500 times more for almost the same thing with a few milligrams of Pd added.. Jones
Re: mars rovers
I'd add direct thermal/electric to your range of output options, even the old dissimilar junction devices would be an option for low power work as the weight and reliability may be more important than output. and there are of course solid state devices - whether these fall into the category of heat engine is debatable. Regards JohnH - Original Message - From: Wesley Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:48 PM Subject: mars rovers I'm attending an Australian Mars Society conference AMEC 2005 on Mars rovers and exploration. http://www.marssociety.org.au/ I'm going to mention LENR to those at the conference. There is still an opening for papers so it may be semiformal presentation. Is there anything I specifically should or should not say? The main line I will take is that: * Cold fusion work is not dead. * Its nuclear reactions in a solid Hydride where quantum tunneling and/or electron screening effects combine to reduce the charge barrier of the nuclei to low enough levels to allow Deuteron/ Palladium and Deuteron/ Deuteron reactions. A few grams of fuel would power a vehicle for a year or so. * Reviewers are now acknowledging that it's a real effect, still not fully reliable or understood, but some who were sceptical are now less inclined to call it fraud or a mistake. * The Second DOE report, December 2004, gave limited [ambiguus] support for the data but argue that they still could not understand it. A majority of the reviewers were much more receptive and positive than the person that wrote the conclusion. They did say more work should be done but recommended against government funding. * Doors are opening a little. Some of its opponents are slowly coming around, conferences have been held at MIT, American Physical Society, etc. * We have up to 40 watts thermal per cc of palladium in some configurations. * We need people who can work on reducing the energy inputs to the devices; computer controlled chemical and thermo-chemical systems. * We need better heat flow control so we don’t allow the cell to chill down below the starting temperature. It never was room temperature fusion. * We need people who can design and build efficient heat/steam engines to convert the heat of the cells in to electricity. * There are several dozen companies working on it worldwide. * The technology could pop out of oblivion as a usable energy technology at any time. It might be available to power Mars operations. * Any help would be appreciated. Note the meeting I'll be attending is three weeks away and the dead line for anything formal could change at any time. Quick comments would be appreciated.
Re: Toward the Next Crusade
Jed and Ed I am in complete agreement No need to write more Regards JohnH - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:38 AM Subject: Re: Toward the Next Crusade RC Macaulay wrote: An analogy can be drawn by the story of the Muslin truck driver. Should the truck break down just over the hill on a dark road, the Muslim would leave the truck in the middle of the road. Anyone killed by crashing into the truck would be the will of Allah. However, a Christian truck driver would think.. I do not think much of religion, but this kind of story is grotesque, bigoted crap. No truck drivers anywhere in the world do such stupid things. They would not survive! People everywhere know how to do their jobs. (On rare occasions a crazy or drunk truck driver might do this sort of thing -- but it can happen in any society.) Frankly, I think this kind of comment is unacceptable in a forum devoted to objective, realistic, informed scientific discussions. I do not mind off-topic comments, but bigotry -- and gross ignorance of other peoples' cultures -- violates the scientific ethic. I should add that ancient Moslem society contributed enormously to the preservation and expansion of science, especially during the European dark ages. Moslem researchers made enormous contributions to mathematics, chemistry, astronomy and many other fields. The al in al Qaeda came into English many times in history under happier circumstances, in words such as algebra, alcohol, alkali and alchemy (which later morphed into chemistry). See also zero and our numbering system. It is one of histories greatest tragedies that over the last 600 years, many Moslems have turned their backs on science. But based on their previous history and contributions, there is absolutely no reason to think that rationality and science are somehow incompatible with their culture. On the contrary, looking at the big picture over the last 2000 years, and the continuing rabid opposition to things like evolution by some Christian sects, you might conclude that Christianity has a bigger problem. - Jed
Re: MAHG Calorimetry Glitch?
- Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:18 PM Subject: Re: MAHG Calorimetry Glitch? Although one can conclude that MAHG is using a thoriated W filament, SNIP I think page 37 #4 of the workbook should lay this to rest It clearly states a pure tungsten filament with calculations of lifetime etc. If this be disregarded then the rest of the workbook can be scrapped as well JohnH
Re: Hydrogen ICE Hybrids
Terry Blanton wrote: Has anyone heard of any large ICEs being fueled by hydrogen? Have a look at http://www.cumminswestport.com/ although they only list Hythane (hydrogen enriched natural gas) in their alternative fuels for hydrogen, rumour has it that they are hydrogen ready and this is certainly their aim, unlike some other promises on the net they are available off the shelf . Biggest engine is 280HP 8.3Ltr. Regards JohnH
