Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
On 8/4/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A previously used (years) aluminum pot with a Teflon coating is quite conductive... ERGO age usage must promote porosity, which is not obvious visually ... I might have scratched it when I put the plates in; but, when I filled it with salt water for a test, I detected no conductivity. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:33:44 -0400: Hi, Could there be microscopic holes in the plastic allowing the water to make contact with the underlying Al? Is there an AC ripple on your power supply (or are you using a battery)? Is there a ground connection to the Al tray? On 8/3/06, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps it's just dissolved gas in the water forming a bubble at the site of a dislocation in the surface of the Teflon. Perhaps it got scratched somewhat when you put the assembly in the tray? In which case they would form in rows. They seem to be randomly distributed in a limited area. A simple test might be to make a deliberate scratch somewhere, and see if it collects bubbles. Is the tray itself plastic all the way through, or just a plastic coating on metal? Coated aluminum. Obviously some kind of capacitive field effect which only applies to the positive anode and a neutral metal with a interceding dielectric. Terry Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:33:44 -0400: Hi, [snip] Perhaps some ions from the anode are going into solution where they displace dissolved gasses which then accumulate on the nearby plastic surface? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
Could there be microscopic holes in the plastic allowing the water to make contact with the underlying Al? Porosity of the teflon is unknown. Conductivity is virtually zero. Is there an AC ripple on your power supply (or are you using a battery)? Yeah, about 22 mV ripple on a 9.15 V RMS supply. Is there a ground connection to the Al tray? Floating on a formica surface. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
On 8/3/06, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps it's just dissolved gas in the water forming a bubble at the site of a dislocation in the surface of the Teflon. Perhaps it got scratched somewhat when you put the assembly in the tray? In which case they would form in rows. They seem to be randomly distributed in a limited area. A simple test might be to make a deliberate scratch somewhere, and see if it collects bubbles. Is the tray itself plastic all the way through, or just a plastic coating on metal? Coated aluminum. Obviously some kind of capacitive field effect which only applies to the positive anode and a neutral metal with a interceding dielectric. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:07:41 -0400: Hi Terry, [snip] There are 16 plates and no electrolysis was anticipated. Also, Jones had recommended an even lower voltage. The goal was to charge the water, not make gas. Then perhaps you should simply disconnect the anode completely. Besides, gas is forming on the surface of the teflon between the anode and the opposing insulated side of the pan. This is something other than electrolysis . . . something I don't understand. Perhaps it's just dissolved gas in the water forming a bubble at the site of a dislocation in the surface of the Teflon. Perhaps it got scratched somewhat when you put the assembly in the tray? A simple test might be to make a deliberate scratch somewhere, and see if it collects bubbles. Is the tray itself plastic all the way through, or just a plastic coating on metal? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
Hi Patrick. From what I can glean from Schauberger's "Burning Barrel" for converting "water to petrol", the dispersed Silver andCopper filings (about 0.5 volts apart in the Electromotive series) and "jet" parts along with Magnesium Ions, Nitrates/IonsSodium/Potassium Phosphates, Carbonic Acid from injected CO2 along with a potpourri of "other minerals", strong agitation, low temperatures due to the jet Venturi effectswith ample storage time and utterance of various incantations it looks like a passive version of what Terry Blanton is doing with his high technology - energy efficient "Joe Cell Running" pictured in this link. :-)http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC_Setup_small.JPG Fred
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Tue, 1 Aug 2006 03:08:08 -0600: Hi, [snip] http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC_Setup_small.JPG [snip] BTW judging by this photo, if the voltage is only 12 V, then it looks like there are too many plates (12 pair?). For electrolysis to have a chance, you need at least 1.21 V drop across each cell, which implies no more than 10 cells, which equates to 11 plates. For it work well, you need 12/1.48 = 8 cells = 9 plates. All assuming that only the end plates are connected. This may explain why there isn't any gas development at the cathode. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
[Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
With reference to Fred's latest musings. Many moons ago I posted the following to the Y! Viktor Schauberger group. I got zero replies :-( If anyone is interested in the process described by VS, I could attempt to summarise. Rgds, Patrick ---quote--- When I first read Coats' The Energy Evolution, I skimmed through the last section of chapter 8 - Petrol (Gasoline) From Water as it seemed a little far fetched (to say the least). Since then, I've learnt that CO2 can be electrocatalytically reduced to yield methyl alcohol. Now, methanol is obviously a useful fuel... The process VS described is sufficiently similar to that stated in some patents that I have recently read (US 5,559,638 US 5,928,806) to make me think again, although these modern patents rely on electrical current to catalyse the reaction. My question to the group is whether anyone has attempted a direct replication of VS's procedure (as described by Coats) to create a combustible substance from water? ---ends---
RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
US 5,559,638 is for a wide angle lens Patrick. :-) This one works better. Fred http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm 5,599,638 [Original Message] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: 7/30/2006 3:24:21 PM Subject: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion With reference to Fred's latest musings. Many moons ago I posted the following to the Y! Viktor Schauberger group. I got zero replies :-( If anyone is interested in the process described by VS, I could attempt to summarise. Rgds, Patrick ---quote--- When I first read Coats' The Energy Evolution, I skimmed through the last section of chapter 8 - Petrol (Gasoline) From Water as it seemed a little far fetched (to say the least). Since then, I've learnt that CO2 can be electrocatalytically reduced to yield methyl alcohol. Now, methanol is obviously a useful fuel... The process VS described is sufficiently similar to that stated in some patents that I have recently read (US 5,559,638 US 5,928,806) to make me think again, although these modern patents rely on electrical current to catalyse the reaction. My question to the group is whether anyone has attempted a direct replication of VS's procedure (as described by Coats) to create a combustible substance from water? ---ends---
RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
Patrick. US 5,928,806 suggests to me that a pipe inside a pipe insulated with an insulating reducing bushing (inside a coupling at the top) filled with water and pressurized with CO2 should produce a variety of combustible organics ranging from Formic Acid HCOOH, Acetaldehyde CH2OH, Acetic Acid CH3-COOH, Methanol CH3OH, and Methane CH4, along with H, H2, and OH. US 5,599,638 is a bit more sophisticated. You can put a spigot at the bottom to drain off the water-soluble organics. But watch out for Formic (ant bite bee sting ) Acid. Fred My question to the group is whether anyone has attempted a direct replication of VS's procedure (as described by Coats) to create a combustible substance from water? ---ends--- Patrick
