Re: [Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
I wrote: Most of Florida is within a day's drive of Patterson's former lab location at West Palm Beach. My memory is not good. That should say Sarasota. To top off that mistake, I sent this message to myself yesterday, instead of vortex. I just found it. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
More on the old AguaFuel concepts, Santilli's paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/9805031v1 and Nauden's old stuff: http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/aquagen.htm As coincidence would have it, some AquaFuel cousin companies are or were located in Florida. Isn't that the state from which the E-Cat parts were shipped to Rossi? In any case I think Rossi has Florida connections. The Aquafuel name was purchased from Richardson: http://aquafuelinc.com/ http://www.rexresearch.com/aquafuel/aquafuel.htm but applied to a different process. It might be interesting to examine the possibility of pyrolysis being a feasible explanation for the E-Cat experiment excess energy. The density of graphite is about 0.6 g/cm^3. Coal density is about 1 gm/cm^3, about the same as water. If coal were being pyrolyzed inside the E-Cat its volume could be replaced with water to achieve no mass change. Coal has an energy density of about 35,000 kJ per kg, or 35 MJ/kg, or 9.72 kWh/kg. The pyrolysis of carbon coincidentally might help explain some of the stains inside the E-Cat. The 6 October 2011 Rossi test provided a net of 17.7 kWh, or 63.7 MJ of energy, according to Lewan's data: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/Rossi6Oct2011noBias.pdf This amounts to the pyrolysis of 63.7/35 kg = 1.82 kg of carbon, followed by catalytic recombination to produce CO2, over a period of about 6 hours requires about 300 g/hr, or 1/12 gram per second of carbon. Using 12.01 as the atomic weight of C, and 43.99 for CO2, that is (1/12 g)*43.99/12.01 = 0.305 gm of CO2 per second. At 2 g/ liter that is 0.305 g/(2 g/liter) = 0.153 liters of gas per second. CO2 is not very soluble in boiling water, so this will come out in the steam/water in gas form, unless sequestered in some way. Lye could be used to sequester CO2 in a nearly closed system releasing little or no gas. The reaction is: 2 NaOH + CO2 - Na2CO3 + H2O NaOH has a molecular weight of 40, so it takes 80 grams of NaOH to sequester 44 grams of CO2. That amounts to 80/44 * 1.82 kg = 3.3 kg of NaOH that has to be contained within the 30x30x30 cm, or 27 liter, inner box. With a density of 2.13 g/cm^3 the NaOH requires 3300 g/ (2.13 g/cm^3) = 1.55 liters. The carbon requires 1.82 liters for a total of 3.37 liters for fuel, leaving over 23 liters, about 87% of the box, for other items. Unless I made a calculation error, which is not unlikely, pyrolysis of carbon appears to qualify as a mechanism for faking E-Cat tests of the duration actually run, even without hydrino formation, closed ou processes, calorimetry errors, etc. Such pyrolysis can even be run in a closed system, provided some current is provided to sustain an arc, which should be very feasible at the high temperatures expected inside the 30x30x30 cm box if it contains heating elements and ceramic thermal storage. It is notable that the original AquaFuel experiments produced an apparent COP of around 7. If pyrolysis is an ou process, as claimed by various people the last decade, then a closed recycling process could of course explain Rossi's results in a sustainable way. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
Horace, Just for your information, I was present at the foundation of the very first Aquafuel Company in Largo (Tampa). Santilli (a mathematician of genius) and Leon Toups a businessman (who after his death was declared a saint- his son was working at the Vatican) have bought the patent of Richardson- a welder. I have received a lesson about the American corporate spirit. Santilli has discovered that Aquafuel contains magnecules. Long story not beautiful, it ended when Santilli has sued Infinite Energy for not publishing a n-th paper in the frame of his endless theoretical dispute with an other Italian guy, Corso (?). Being an adviser I had to pay 12,000 US$. The trial didn't took place, fortunately. However nothing to learn from this story that I just sketched here this has happend in an other part of Florida not Miami where Rossi works. I have stopped at Sarasota, visiting Patterson. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.netwrote: More on the old AguaFuel concepts, Santilli's paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/**9805031v1http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/9805031v1 and Nauden's old stuff: http://jlnlabs.online.fr/**bingofuel/html/aquagen.htmhttp://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/aquagen.htm As coincidence would have it, some AquaFuel cousin companies are or were located in Florida. Isn't that the state from which the E-Cat parts were shipped to Rossi? In any case I think Rossi has Florida connections. The Aquafuel name was purchased from Richardson: http://aquafuelinc.com/ http://www.rexresearch.com/**aquafuel/aquafuel.htmhttp://www.rexresearch.com/aquafuel/aquafuel.htm but applied to a different process. It might be interesting to examine the possibility of pyrolysis being a feasible explanation for the E-Cat experiment excess energy. The density of graphite is about 0.6 g/cm^3. Coal density is about 1 gm/cm^3, about the same as water. If coal were being pyrolyzed inside the E-Cat its volume could be replaced with water to achieve no mass change. Coal has an energy density of about 35,000 kJ per kg, or 35 MJ/kg, or 9.72 kWh/kg. The pyrolysis of carbon coincidentally might help explain some of the stains inside the E-Cat. The 6 October 2011 Rossi test provided a net of 17.7 kWh, or 63.7 MJ of energy, according to Lewan's data: http://www.mtaonline.net/~**hheffner/Rossi6Oct2011noBias.**pdfhttp://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/Rossi6Oct2011noBias.pdf This amounts to the pyrolysis of 63.7/35 kg = 1.82 kg of carbon, followed by catalytic recombination to produce CO2, over a period of about 6 hours requires about 300 g/hr, or 1/12 gram per second of carbon. Using 12.01 as the atomic weight of C, and 43.99 for CO2, that is (1/12 g)*43.99/12.01 = 0.305 gm of CO2 per second. At 2 g/liter that is 0.305 g/(2 g/liter) = 0.153 liters of gas per second. CO2 is not very soluble in boiling water, so this will come out in the steam/water in gas form, unless sequestered in some way. Lye could be used to sequester CO2 in a nearly closed system releasing little or no gas. The reaction is: 2 NaOH + CO2 - Na2CO3 + H2O NaOH has a molecular weight of 40, so it takes 80 grams of NaOH to sequester 44 grams of CO2. That amounts to 80/44 * 1.82 kg = 3.3 kg of NaOH that has to be contained within the 30x30x30 cm, or 27 liter, inner box. With a density of 2.13 g/cm^3 the NaOH requires 3300 g/(2.13 g/cm^3) = 1.55 liters. The carbon requires 1.82 liters for a total of 3.37 liters for fuel, leaving over 23 liters, about 87% of the box, for other items. Unless I made a calculation error, which is not unlikely, pyrolysis of carbon appears to qualify as a mechanism for faking E-Cat tests of the duration actually run, even without hydrino formation, closed ou processes, calorimetry errors, etc. Such pyrolysis can even be run in a closed system, provided some current is provided to sustain an arc, which should be very feasible at the high temperatures expected inside the 30x30x30 cm box if it contains heating elements and ceramic thermal storage. It is notable that the original AquaFuel experiments produced an apparent COP of around 7. If pyrolysis is an ou process, as claimed by various people the last decade, then a closed recycling process could of course explain Rossi's results in a sustainable way. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~**hheffner/http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
On Nov 21, 2011, at 5:02 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: Horace, Just for your information, I was present at the foundation of the very first Aquafuel Company in Largo (Tampa). Santilli (a mathematician of genius) and Leon Toups a businessman (who after his death was declared a saint- his son was working at the Vatican) have bought the patent of Richardson- a welder. I have received a lesson about the American corporate spirit. Santilli has discovered that Aquafuel contains magnecules. Long story not beautiful, it ended when Santilli has sued Infinite Energy for not publishing a n-th paper in the frame of his endless theoretical dispute with an other Italian guy, Corso (?). Being an adviser I had to pay 12,000 US$. The trial didn't took place, fortunately. However nothing to learn from this story that I just sketched here this has happend in an other part of Florida not Miami where Rossi works. I have stopped at Sarasota, visiting Patterson. That is a very interesting anecdote Peter! An interesting chapter in a checkered past for the field. Thank you for posting it. I would ask to hear more, but, given the litigious history, I can see that would be inappropriate. Perhaps you would enjoy publishing it in detail posthumously? 8^) Hopefully it will be in your memoirs. I recall at the time it seemed to me that pyrolysis, even if it turned out to not be ou, held great promise for converting pulverized garbage into energy. This is an interesting coincidence, given Rossi's prior involvement in garbage incineration for energy and eventually in converting garbage into oil via the Petroldragon process. Perhaps it would be well justified if the present scheme were designed to wreak revenge on the corrupt bureaucrats and others who gave him so much legal grief regarding his green technology. I don't see how it could be focused on them, however. The old story is documented, with links, here: http://blog.hasslberger.com/2011/02/italian_engineer_announces_com.html What a great movie Rossi's story would make. His story might be worth millions. That might be the best revenge of all. Rossi has sold his house and business, so perhaps he is prepared to move to some nice water front location for retirement ... or perhaps to continue work. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
I will send you the story privately if you wish. I have met very interesting people. Have you read My cold fusion history I and II on my blog.? I intend to continue this. peter On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.netwrote: On Nov 21, 2011, at 5:02 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: Horace, Just for your information, I was present at the foundation of the very first Aquafuel Company in Largo (Tampa). Santilli (a mathematician of genius) and Leon Toups a businessman (who after his death was declared a saint- his son was working at the Vatican) have bought the patent of Richardson- a welder. I have received a lesson about the American corporate spirit. Santilli has discovered that Aquafuel contains magnecules. Long story not beautiful, it ended when Santilli has sued Infinite Energy for not publishing a n-th paper in the frame of his endless theoretical dispute with an other Italian guy, Corso (?). Being an adviser I had to pay 12,000 US$. The trial didn't took place, fortunately. However nothing to learn from this story that I just sketched here this has happend in an other part of Florida not Miami where Rossi works. I have stopped at Sarasota, visiting Patterson. That is a very interesting anecdote Peter! An interesting chapter in a checkered past for the field. Thank you for posting it. I would ask to hear more, but, given the litigious history, I can see that would be inappropriate. Perhaps you would enjoy publishing it in detail posthumously? 8^) Hopefully it will be in your memoirs. I recall at the time it seemed to me that pyrolysis, even if it turned out to not be ou, held great promise for converting pulverized garbage into energy. This is an interesting coincidence, given Rossi's prior involvement in garbage incineration for energy and eventually in converting garbage into oil via the Petroldragon process. Perhaps it would be well justified if the present scheme were designed to wreak revenge on the corrupt bureaucrats and others who gave him so much legal grief regarding his green technology. I don't see how it could be focused on them, however. The old story is documented, with links, here: http://blog.hasslberger.com/2011/02/italian_engineer_announces_com.html What a great movie Rossi's story would make. His story might be worth millions. That might be the best revenge of all. Rossi has sold his house and business, so perhaps he is prepared to move to some nice water front location for retirement ... or perhaps to continue work. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Peter Gluck wrote: I will send you the story privately if you wish. I have met very interesting people. Have you read My cold fusion history I and II on my blog.? I intend to continue this. peter I would very much appreciate that. I haven't read those entries I and II. I don't see them at: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com Do you have URLs for those? I am going to Anchorage for the day, so will not respond for a while. BTW, I have been to Florida many times. It has a great highway system. Most of Florida is within a day's drive of Patterson's former lab location at West Palm Beach, just north of Miami. It is a great place to be in the winter, but a bit too hot for me in the summer now, though I loved swimming in the ocean in the summer there when I was a kid. On one visit to Daytona Beach in the 1950's I had the privilege of having the eye of a hurricane pass directly over my location. I went outside. It was calm and you could see blue sky directly above. It was a most memorable experience. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:A Pyrolysis E-Cat fake
Dear Horace, I would be honored if you will read the papers labelled NEW ENERGY on the blog. The first history writing is at: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-cold-fusion-history-i.html I still have to write about my travel with Yuri Potapov in the US, my visit and friendship with Gene Mallove, with Akira Kawasaki, my travel to Bangkok for INTERENERGORESURS, my collaboration with Hal Fox etc.. And now my great friendship with Franco Piantelli whom I admire as scientist. And my sympathy for Defkalion. Peter On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.netwrote: On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Peter Gluck wrote: I will send you the story privately if you wish. I have met very interesting people. Have you read My cold fusion history I and II on my blog.? I intend to continue this. peter I would very much appreciate that. I haven't read those entries I and II. I don't see them at: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com Do you have URLs for those? I am going to Anchorage for the day, so will not respond for a while. BTW, I have been to Florida many times. It has a great highway system. Most of Florida is within a day's drive of Patterson's former lab location at West Palm Beach, just north of Miami. It is a great place to be in the winter, but a bit too hot for me in the summer now, though I loved swimming in the ocean in the summer there when I was a kid. On one visit to Daytona Beach in the 1950's I had the privilege of having the eye of a hurricane pass directly over my location. I went outside. It was calm and you could see blue sky directly above. It was a most memorable experience. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
