Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years - Easter Island
Yes, I agree. I believe that work originated here: http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/rethinking-the-fall-of-easter-island/1 Feature article, so apparently not paywalled - I'm not a subscriber, but I can see it. Jeff On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 2:27 PM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote: On 10/9/2012 11:53 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: I had thought that they destroyed their own environment through overharvesting and overhunting, ie the population was to large to live sustainably. This is not a particualrly religious reason. I had also gathered that the statues etc were an attempt to appease their gods in the hope that the gods would get them out of the mess that they had got themselves into. No Gods appeared to wave their magic wands. I've had a quick look at some of the summaries of Collapse and that seems to be what J Diamond says as well Nigel On 09/10/2012 14:36, Jed Rothwell wrote: fznidar...@aol.com wrote: The Easter Island society ran out of wood and could not fish. The society died out. They did not die out. They were still there a century or two later when Europeans showed up. Granted, they were in dire straits. They destroyed their own environment, apparently for religious reasons. See J. Diamond, Collapse. - Jed Just read, in Nat. Geographic, article on Easter Island. The best going theory now is apparently that the rats that the first settlers brought with them (as food stock, probably) were wildly successful. (No natural enemies). They ate all the tree seeds and the forest died out. Has the sound of truth. Ol' Bab
Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years - Easter Island
After doing a bit more reading I am a little more convinced by the argument that a significant cause of the deforestation was to provide the wood to move the statues. Whether this was religious or not is unclear, although that is plausible. It may be in part this need for groups of people to outdo each other. Each Easter Island statue has to be bigger and better than the last. A bit like our Olympic Games, or the building of cathedrals. The instinctive drive for growth. Nigel On 10/10/2012 07:20, Jeff Berkowitz wrote: Yes, I agree. I believe that work originated here: http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/rethinking-the-fall-of-easter-island/1 Feature article, so apparently not paywalled - I'm not a subscriber, but I can see it. Jeff On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 2:27 PM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote: On 10/9/2012 11:53 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: I had thought that they destroyed their own environment through overharvesting and overhunting, ie the population was to large to live sustainably. This is not a particualrly religious reason. I had also gathered that the statues etc were an attempt to appease their gods in the hope that the gods would get them out of the mess that they had got themselves into. No Gods appeared to wave their magic wands. I've had a quick look at some of the summaries of Collapse and that seems to be what J Diamond says as well Nigel On 09/10/2012 14:36, Jed Rothwell wrote: fznidar...@aol.com wrote: The Easter Island society ran out of wood and could not fish. The society died out. They did not die out. They were still there a century or two later when Europeans showed up. Granted, they were in dire straits. They destroyed their own environment, apparently for religious reasons. See J. Diamond, Collapse. - Jed Just read, in Nat. Geographic, article on Easter Island. The best going theory now is apparently that the rats that the first settlers brought with them (as food stock, probably) were wildly successful. (No natural enemies). They ate all the tree seeds and the forest died out. Has the sound of truth. Ol' Bab
Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years - Easter Island
The problem of ecological dominance is inherent in the eusocial nature of civilized man. Eusociality results in ecological dominance. For a discussion of this read E. O. Wilson's laterst book The Social Conquest of Earth. There is only one solution to this: Civilization must leave the biosphere. To the extent that man remains in the biosphere, man must resolve disputes in natural duel, as do other sexual species. This is the only way to ensure man does not form a civilization in the biosphere again. The only way to ensure natural duel is the ultimate dispute processing mode is to execute any man that refuses to meet a challenger in a natural setting for a duel using only nature itself as the weaponry. On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk wrote: After doing a bit more reading I am a little more convinced by the argument that a significant cause of the deforestation was to provide the wood to move the statues. Whether this was religious or not is unclear, although that is plausible. It may be in part this need for groups of people to outdo each other. Each Easter Island statue has to be bigger and better than the last. A bit like our Olympic Games, or the building of cathedrals. The instinctive drive for growth. Nigel On 10/10/2012 07:20, Jeff Berkowitz wrote: Yes, I agree. I believe that work originated here: http://www.americanscientist.**org/issues/feature/rethinking-** the-fall-of-easter-island/1http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/rethinking-the-fall-of-easter-island/1 Feature article, so apparently not paywalled - I'm not a subscriber, but I can see it. Jeff On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 2:27 PM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: On 10/9/2012 11:53 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: I had thought that they destroyed their own environment through overharvesting and overhunting, ie the population was to large to live sustainably. This is not a particualrly religious reason. I had also gathered that the statues etc were an attempt to appease their gods in the hope that the gods would get them out of the mess that they had got themselves into. No Gods appeared to wave their magic wands. I've had a quick look at some of the summaries of Collapse and that seems to be what J Diamond says as well Nigel On 09/10/2012 14:36, Jed Rothwell wrote: fznidar...@aol.com wrote: The Easter Island society ran out of wood and could not fish. The society died out. They did not die out. They were still there a century or two later when Europeans showed up. Granted, they were in dire straits. They destroyed their own environment, apparently for religious reasons. See J. Diamond, Collapse. - Jed Just read, in Nat. Geographic, article on Easter Island. The best going theory now is apparently that the rats that the first settlers brought with them (as food stock, probably) were wildly successful. (No natural enemies). They ate all the tree seeds and the forest died out. Has the sound of truth. Ol' Bab
Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years - Easter Island
On 10/9/2012 11:53 AM, Nigel Dyer wrote: I had thought that they destroyed their own environment through overharvesting and overhunting, ie the population was to large to live sustainably. This is not a particualrly religious reason. I had also gathered that the statues etc were an attempt to appease their gods in the hope that the gods would get them out of the mess that they had got themselves into. No Gods appeared to wave their magic wands. I've had a quick look at some of the summaries of Collapse and that seems to be what J Diamond says as well Nigel On 09/10/2012 14:36, Jed Rothwell wrote: fznidar...@aol.com wrote: The Easter Island society ran out of wood and could not fish. The society died out. They did not die out. They were still there a century or two later when Europeans showed up. Granted, they were in dire straits. They destroyed their own environment, apparently for religious reasons. See J. Diamond, Collapse. - Jed Just read, in Nat. Geographic, article on Easter Island. The best going theory now is apparently that the rats that the first settlers brought with them (as food stock, probably) were wildly successful. (No natural enemies). They ate all the tree seeds and the forest died out. Has the sound of truth. Ol' Bab
