RE: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
Find a local cavern, seal it off and do compressed air storage.
Re: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 6 Mar 2014 18:43:43 -0800: Hi, [snip] Lithium really is brain-dead for Wind farm application ... maybe that pathology goes with the territory. Advanced flywheel storage probably makes the most sense. Below is one company that has done well with them. Smart Energy's flywheel is 4th-generation featuring longer life than batteries, lower-maintenance, higher charge-discharge cycles, higher efficiency and zero emissions. http://beaconpower.com/files/bp_intro.pdf These systems obviously provide excellent rapid response, and as such should doubtless be included, however a single unit can only deliver full power for a few minutes. In order to compensate for cloudy days etc. a larger buffer is required, which probably means some form of chemical storage, or molten salt. Of course flywheels could also be used for longer term storage, but I suspect it would become prohibitively expensive to do so. Fuel cells might actually be the cheapest for long term chemical storage, because the expensive part of the device is the fuel cell itself, while the energy storage capacity depends only on the amount of externally stored fuel, and fuel storage is relatively cheap. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
[Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
See: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/02/beech-ridge-energy-plans-battery-system-at-west-virginia-wind-farm Summary stats for the battery: 32 MW 18 modules made of standard shipping containers (like Rossi's MW gadget), each with 1.8 MW output. Lithium-ion batteries Cost $20 million. Whew! Each 1.8-MW module includes: one standard shipping container housing four battery strings; four 450 kW inverters to convert power between direct current and alternating current; a chiller to cool the battery containers; and a transformer for the inverter. It sounds like a kudge, but I guess it is the best we can do with today's technology. Pumped water storage seems more elegant with higher capacity. I suppose it is not as efficient. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
Lithium-ion batteries Cost $20 million. Whew! Musk's Gigafactory http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2014/02/26/elon-musks-risky-5-billion-plan-to-control-teslas-fate/ will double the world's output of lithium batteries. While mostly for the Tesla automobile, Musk hopes to at least half the cost of storage. Surely some of this will wind up grid leveling. Tesla Motors closed at $253. The IPO was less than $20 in 2010.
Re: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 6 Mar 2014 16:22:17 -0500: Hi, [snip] See: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/02/beech-ridge-energy-plans-battery-system-at-west-virginia-wind-farm This has to be one of the stupidest possible uses for Lithium batteries, given the scarcity of Lithium. Non-mobile storage facilities don't need high energy density storage. Mobile applications do. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
In reply to mix...@bigpond.com's message of Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:48:49 +1100: Hi, BTW Sodium-Sulfur might have been a better choice for a fixed location, given that both Sodium and Sulphur are common and cheap. Also the weight penalty imposed by the thermal insulation required isn't a problem for a fixed location. (Besides, that weight penalty would be negligible if aerogel is used as the insulator). In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 6 Mar 2014 16:22:17 -0500: Hi, [snip] See: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/02/beech-ridge-energy-plans-battery-system-at-west-virginia-wind-farm This has to be one of the stupidest possible uses for Lithium batteries, given the scarcity of Lithium. Non-mobile storage facilities don't need high energy density storage. Mobile applications do. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
Lithium really is brain-dead for Wind farm application ... maybe that pathology goes with the territory. Advanced flywheel storage probably makes the most sense. Below is one company that has done well with them. Smart Energy's flywheel is 4th-generation featuring longer life than batteries, lower-maintenance, higher charge-discharge cycles, higher efficiency and zero emissions. http://beaconpower.com/files/bp_intro.pdf -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com BTW Sodium-Sulfur might have been a better choice for a fixed location, given that both Sodium and Sulphur are common and cheap. Also the weight penalty imposed by the thermal insulation required isn't a problem for a fixed location. (Besides, that weight penalty would be negligible if aerogel is used as the insulator). In reply to Jed Rothwell's message http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/02/beech-ridge-ene rgy-plans-battery-system-at-west-virginia-wind-farm This has to be one of the stupidest possible uses for Lithium batteries, given the scarcity of Lithium. Non-mobile storage facilities don't need high energy density storage. Mobile applications do. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Battery system for wind farm
Maybe question is not engineering, but subsidies, advertising, ideology, fashion... I see that with companies getting on internet with no vision of what to do there. I should not moan too much, because soon (maybe already) the big guys will go to LENr without much vision of what to do, else be present. 2014-03-07 3:43 GMT+01:00 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net: Lithium really is brain-dead for Wind farm application ... maybe that pathology goes with the territory. Advanced flywheel storage probably makes the most sense. Below is one company that has done well with them. Smart Energy's flywheel is 4th-generation featuring longer life than batteries, lower-maintenance, higher charge-discharge cycles, higher efficiency and zero emissions. http://beaconpower.com/files/bp_intro.pdf -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com BTW Sodium-Sulfur might have been a better choice for a fixed location, given that both Sodium and Sulphur are common and cheap. Also the weight penalty imposed by the thermal insulation required isn't a problem for a fixed location. (Besides, that weight penalty would be negligible if aerogel is used as the insulator). In reply to Jed Rothwell's message http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2014/02/beech-ridge-ene rgy-plans-battery-system-at-west-virginia-wind-farm This has to be one of the stupidest possible uses for Lithium batteries, given the scarcity of Lithium. Non-mobile storage facilities don't need high energy density storage. Mobile applications do. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
