Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
> From: "David Roberson" > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:08:40 PM > > I hope they are not used for that purpose. > > A spice model is an electronic model that handles non linear > analysis. In order to simulate Rossi's ECAT, you use electrical > components. > > Dave Not only non-linear, but transient (ie changing) analysis. There's a direct correlation between Spice electronic elements and thermal elements: Electrical Thermal Voltage Temperature Charge Heat Current Heat Flow Resistance Thermal Resistance Capacitance Specific Heat * volume I used it to see if the placement of thermocouples in Rossi's "Heat exchanger" test would invalidate his results. http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_oct11_spice.php (I think that was the last version ... I didn't link it to my main page) A mesh of resistors models the structure in 2D (you can do it in 3D but that wasn't necessary) The resistors models the conductivity through the mesh A capacitor at each junction of 4 resistors models the specific heat You can then see how a temperature impulse propagates through the mesh. I got a qualitative answer, but I couldn't callibrate it to get a quantitative result. I expect much the same for the hot-cat.
Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
I hope they are not used for that purpose. A spice model is an electronic model that handles non linear analysis. In order to simulate Rossi's ECAT, you use electrical components. Dave -Original Message- From: Rich Murray To: vortex-l ; Rich Murray Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 10:34 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper Alan Fletcher and David Roberson, What is a spice model? Do I understand, are these models for faking the Rossi results? Thanks, Rich On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:03 PM, David Roberson wrote: Alan, It will be interesting to see if your model agrees with mine. I have had one working now for close to a year that demonstrates a COP of 6 when the device is at the threshold of instability. A COP of 3 is much easier to control although both must operate within a region which is normally unstable without input power modulation. I drive my model with a pulse width modulated source just as Rossi's actual device. I find that his statements about the operation of his ECAT make sense according to the behavior of my model. I am using a spice model. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 6:47 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper > From: "Rich Murray" > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:38:34 PM > thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the > exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in > each 6 minute cycle -- what do your think? I'm working on the Spice zero'th-order model. I've got a nonlinear resistor model twitching (with a table lookup) --- I just have to plug in the right equation. (And calibrate it).
Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
Alan Fletcher and David Roberson, What is a spice model? Do I understand, are these models for faking the Rossi results? Thanks, Rich On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:03 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Alan, > > It will be interesting to see if your model agrees with mine. I have had > one working now for close to a year that demonstrates a COP of 6 when the > device is at the threshold of instability. A COP of 3 is much easier to > control although both must operate within a region which is normally > unstable without input power modulation. > > I drive my model with a pulse width modulated source just as Rossi's > actual device. I find that his statements about the operation of his ECAT > make sense according to the behavior of my model. > > I am using a spice model. > > Dave > -Original Message- > From: Alan Fletcher > To: vortex-l > Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 6:47 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper > > > From: "Rich Murray" > > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:38:34 PM > > > thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the > > exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in > > each 6 minute cycle -- what do your think? > > I'm working on the Spice zero'th-order model. I've got a nonlinear resistor > model twitching (with a table lookup) --- I just have to plug in the right > equation. (And calibrate it). > > > >
Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
Alan, It will be interesting to see if your model agrees with mine. I have had one working now for close to a year that demonstrates a COP of 6 when the device is at the threshold of instability. A COP of 3 is much easier to control although both must operate within a region which is normally unstable without input power modulation. I drive my model with a pulse width modulated source just as Rossi's actual device. I find that his statements about the operation of his ECAT make sense according to the behavior of my model. I am using a spice model. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 6:47 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper > From: "Rich Murray" > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:38:34 PM > thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the > exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in > each 6 minute cycle -- what do your think? I'm working on the Spice zero'th-order model. I've got a nonlinear resistor model twitching (with a table lookup) --- I just have to plug in the right equation. (And calibrate it).
Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
> From: "Rich Murray" > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:38:34 PM > thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the > exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in > each 6 minute cycle -- what do your think? I'm working on the Spice zero'th-order model. I've got a nonlinear resistor model twitching (with a table lookup) --- I just have to plug in the right equation. (And calibrate it).
Re: [Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in each 6 minute cycle -- what do your think? within the fellowship of service, Rich can Ethan's hidden double power wires explain regular exponential temperature rises and falls every 6 minutes for 5 days in Rossi HT2: Ethan: Rich Murray 2013.05.23 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2013/05/can-ethans-hidden-double-power-wires.html http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2013/05/rossi-e-cat-ht-shows-excess-heat-from-h.html http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2013/05/21/the-e-cat-is-back-and-people-are-still-falling-for-it/ comment #103 2013.05.23 Thursday noon PST Ethan, I appreciate your spirited critique, especially the simple hidden double wire scam -- which if power was actually supplied at high voltages, could be very small in diameter. I wonder if this can explain the remarkably constant temperature rises and falls with exponential curves shown for runs of up to 5 days? within the fellowship of service, Rich Murray rmforall at gmail.com http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.3913.pdf page 25 bottom: Remarks on the test An interesting aspect of the E-Cat HT2 is certainly its capacity to operate in self-sustaining mode. The values of temperature and production of energy which were obtained are the result of averages not merely gained through data capture performed at different times; they are also relevant to the resistor coils’ ON/OFF cycle itself. By plotting the average temperature vs time for a few minutes of test (Plot 3) one can clearly see how it varies between a maximum and a minimum value with a fixed periodicity. Plot 3. Average surface temperature trend of the E-Cat HT2 over several minutes of operation. Note the heating and cooling trends of the device, which appear to be different from the exponential characteristics of generic resistor. Looking at Plot 3, the first feature one notices is the appearance taken by the curve in both the heating and cooling phases of the device. If we compare these in detail with the standard curves of a generic resistor (Plot 4 and Plot 5), we see that the former differ from the latter in that they are not of the exponential type. Plot 4. Comparing the typical heating curve of a generic resistor (left, [Ref. 9]) to the one relevant to one of the E-Cat HT2’s ON states. Finally, the complete ON/OFF cycle of the E-Cat HT2, as seen in Plot 3, may be compared with the typical heating-cooling cycle of a resistor, as displayed in Plot 6. Plot 6. Heating and cooling cycle of a generic resistor [Ref. 9]. The trend is described by exponential type equations. What appears obvious here is that the priming mechanism pertaining to some sort of reaction inside the device speeds up the rise in temperature, and keeps the temperatures higher during the cooling phase. Another very interesting behavior is brought out by synchronically comparing another two curves: power produced over time by the E-Cat HT2, and power consumed during the same time. An example of this may be seen in Plot 7, which refers to about three hours of test. The resistor coils ON/OFF cycle is plotted in red, while the power-emission trend of the device appears in blue. Plot 8. Detail taken from Plot 7, reproducing the first two periods of the cycle. The three time intervals in which each period may be divided are labeled by Roman numerals. Further food for thought may be found by analyzing the trend of the ratio between energy produced and energy consumed by the E-Cat HT2, as referred to the same time interval dealt with in Plot 7. The blue curve in Plot 9 is the result of the analysis, and is reproduced here together with the red curve of power consumption normalized to 1. Basically, for every second taken into account, the corresponding value of the blue curve is calculated as the ratio between the sum of the power per second emitted in all the previous seconds, and the sum of the power per second consumed in all the previous seconds. Plot 9. The blue curve is the result of the ratio between energy produced and consumed by the E-Cat HT2, with reference to the same time instants dealt with in Plot 7. The red curve represents the ON/OFF trend of the resistor coils normalized to 1. All the above trends are remarkable, and warrant further in-depth enquiry. On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 6:11 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: Does not like it, at least it seems so at fast reading: > > > http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/ > > Peter > > > -- > Dr. Peter Gluck > Cluj, Romania > http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com >
[Vo]:Gary Wright on the Hot Cat paper
Does not like it, at least it seems so at fast reading: http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/ Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
