Re: [Vo]:Krivit's transcript of Rossi's "Ah Ha" moment, a cheap shot. (Part 1 of 2)
Peter Gluck wrote: > I am really far from being a Rossi-fan but this is a kitschy trick, > irrelevant and inefficient, and the natural reaction is contrary to that > expected by the reporter. > "The reporter" meaning Krivit? I expect exactly this kind of thing from him, but calling him a reporter is a stretch. Like saying Fox News is fair and balanced, to coin a phrase. This has nothing to do with cold fusion or Krivit's statements about it. This is about language and speaking with a foreign accent. It irks me! It hits close to home. It mortifies me to listen an audio recording of myself speaking Japanese. I don't sound that way in my inner voice. It pains me to listen to Donald Keene speak Japanese, because he manages to speak it with a strong Brooklyn accent. He is one of the most distinguished scholars and translators in history but Oy veh, that accent! Keene has been in the news a lot lately because has decided to spend his last years in Japan, and to become a Japanese citizen. This is in solidarity with the Japanese people in response to the tsunami disaster. It seems quixotic to me. The Japanese public is wild about the idea. The government, not so much. They do not welcome immigrants. They want him to fill in a blizzard of paperwork, and to prove that his parents were married and that he really does have a PhD. See: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/ft/2011/10/donald_keene_the_scholar_of_japanese_literature_has_little_time_.html - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Krivit's transcript of Rossi's "Ah Ha" moment, a cheap shot. (Part 1 of 2)
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: > > >> For Krivit to have produced a technically accurate word-for-word >> translation of Rossi's broken English, a typical Rossi-reply which was >> filled with Italian inflections, and pauses, and "umms", and "as" and >> "eh"s, was in my opinion deliberately manipulative. >> > It is worse than that. It is a transparent ploy. It is beneath contempt. > > I have been involved in teaching and learning second languages, and > translation, since I was 16 years old. I have taught dozens of people > English as a second language, and I have edited over a hundred papers in > English by people who speak English as a second language. I spend 20 > minutes a day reading 19th and 20th century literature in Japanese to keep > my edge up, and it is sometimes still a struggle (depending on the book -- > I do not recommend "Wagahai wa neko de aru" the best-seller of 1906). > > In my opinion, Rossi's spoken English is good. Not excellent. It is > perfectly understandable, and better than many other Italian researchers I > know. The point is, he is an engineer, not a writer, translator or > television personality. His English skills are good enough for his > purposes. He has clearly devoted a lot of effort and time to mastering > English. The U.S. is a mono-lingual society, unlike Europe. Very few > native-born Americans speak a second language as well as Rossi does. I > doubt that Krivit does. I doubt he has any idea how difficult it is, or how > well Rossi is doing it. > > In essence Krivit is making fun of a foreign accent. He is saying that a > foreign accent is evidence of deception or low intelligence. Many people > believed that in the 19th century. It is shocking that anyone still thinks > this way in the 21st century. People use to say that about minority group > dialects in the U.S., such as Appalachian ones -- commonly known as > "hillbilly" accents. Needless to say, people also denigrated black > dialects, Irish and others. Up the 1930s some native American children were > forced into schools where English was the only language allowed, and they > were beaten if they spoke their native language. Even today, some Americans > take speech therapy to rid themselves of regional accents. From my point of > view this is like tearing down ancient cathedrals to erect fast-food > joints. It is a crime against linguistic diversity. > > I wish our society was beyond that, but there are still throwbacks such as > Krivit, who appeal to our worst instincts and base prejudice. > > - Jed > > I am really far from being a Rossi-fan but this is a kitschy trick, irrelevant and inefficient, and the natural reaction is contrary to that expected by the reporter. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Krivit's transcript of Rossi's "Ah Ha" moment, a cheap shot. (Part 1 of 2)
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: > For Krivit to have produced a technically accurate word-for-word > translation of Rossi's broken English, a typical Rossi-reply which was > filled with Italian inflections, and pauses, and "umms", and "as" and > "eh"s, was in my opinion deliberately manipulative. > It is worse than that. It is a transparent ploy. It is beneath contempt. I have been involved in teaching and learning second languages, and translation, since I was 16 years old. I have taught dozens of people English as a second language, and I have edited over a hundred papers in English by people who speak English as a second language. I spend 20 minutes a day reading 19th and 20th century literature in Japanese to keep my edge up, and it is sometimes still a struggle (depending on the book -- I do not recommend "Wagahai wa neko de aru" the best-seller of 1906). In my opinion, Rossi's spoken English is good. Not excellent. It is perfectly understandable, and better than many other Italian researchers I know. The point is, he is an engineer, not a writer, translator or television personality. His English skills are good enough for his purposes. He has clearly devoted a lot of effort and time to mastering English. The U.S. is a mono-lingual society, unlike Europe. Very few native-born Americans speak a second language as well as Rossi does. I doubt that Krivit does. I doubt he has any idea how difficult it is, or how well Rossi is doing it. In essence Krivit is making fun of a foreign accent. He is saying that a foreign accent is evidence of deception or low intelligence. Many people believed that in the 19th century. It is shocking that anyone still thinks this way in the 21st century. People use to say that about minority group dialects in the U.S., such as Appalachian ones -- commonly known as "hillbilly" accents. Needless to say, people also denigrated black dialects, Irish and others. Up the 1930s some native American children were forced into schools where English was the only language allowed, and they were beaten if they spoke their native language. Even today, some Americans take speech therapy to rid themselves of regional accents. From my point of view this is like tearing down ancient cathedrals to erect fast-food joints. It is a crime against linguistic diversity. I wish our society was beyond that, but there are still throwbacks such as Krivit, who appeal to our worst instincts and base prejudice. - Jed
[Vo]:Krivit's transcript of Rossi's "Ah Ha" moment, a cheap shot. (Part 1 of 2)
In reference to Mr. Krivit's Oct 30 blog: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/ Before I embark on what I perceive to have been a deliberate exploitation of Rossi's broken English I want to briefly focus on Krivit's self-perceived powers of prediction. Krivit states: > As I predicted on Thursday night, promoter Andrea > Rossi's final demonstration of a series of boxes of > pipes and wires did not light any bulb or turn any > motor. Again, he failed at science, and he failed > to deliver a technological device. I believe it was common knowledge that Rossi was building the equivalent of a 1 megawatt thermal reactor to do nothing more than heat water. My impression was that prior to the demo there may have some speculation as to whether Rossi would attempt to generate steam or just make a lot of hot water. Be that as it may, I don't recall Rossi ever planning to produce electricity from generated steam, presumably in order to power light bulbs or motors. Granted, while it might have been impressive to see a bunch of bright lights or a whirring motor that never appeared to have been Rossi's intent. Even if Rossi had powered a bunch of light bulbs or a motor I doubt their inclusion would have contributed anything useful in the scientific sense. Skeptics (and that obviously now includes Krivit) would have, as they have in the past, continued to doubt Rossi's claims. They would have continued to cry foul and scam precisely because Rossi's demonstrations, as they always have in the past, continued to avoid following adequate scientific protocols. However, because it was common knowledge as to what Rossi was planning to demonstrate I find it very odd that Krivit seems to be self-congratulating himself for predicting that there were no light bulbs or running motors. It was a frivolous and meaningless prediction for Krivit to have broadcast to his readers. ... And now, on to what I really wanted to discuss. Krivit goes on in the same Oct 30 blog to say: > Visually, Rossi exhibits absolute confidence. Yet > listen carefully when I interview him on camera > and ask him a crucial question: He is vague, he > stutters and he is logically inconsistent, even > within a 12-minute period. > > I asked him whether he had a specific moment of > discovery in his low-energy nuclear reaction research. > > "Yes, because I burned a finger," Rossi said. At this point I would recommend to any who might be interested in what Rossi actually said, view the actual You-Tube conversation of Rossi's "Ah ha" moment. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II3NxxyxQ0I ...and be sure to focus on Rossi's actual comments, the "Ah Ha!" moment starting around 10:19. Krivit's transcript of Rossi's "Ah Ha!" is meticulously transcribed, down to each and every single utterance and inflection: > "Can you tell me more about that moment?" [Krivit] asked. > > Rossi replied, "Yes, uhh, because, umm, I was, uh, uh, > working with a, with a small reactor which was made of, > uh, umm, of copper, was made of copper, uh, and with a > small lead shielding, and I was giving energy with a > resistance, uh, giving, eh, some sort of temperature. > At a certain point, the, the temperature raised very > suddenly, and, uh, and I had in my, the, the, uh, left > finger of, uh, of, uh, the, the, the, the finger of, > umm, uh, the index of my left hand, umm, sit on a, a > part of this small reactor which was as big as this, > and I burned the top of the finger." For Krivit to have produced a technically accurate word-for-word translation of Rossi's broken English, a typical Rossi-reply which was filled with Italian inflections, and pauses, and "umms", and "as" and "eh"s, was in my opinion deliberately manipulative. Krivit intentionally, and with forethought, exploited Rossi's inability to adequately express himself in a foreign language. He did so as a pretext to generate innuendo that Rossi displays confused thinking patterns. It is a cheap shot. It is despicable journalism. What I find incredibly egregious about what Krivit did is based on the fact that Krivit obviously knows that Rossi does not possess a good command of the English language. Krivit also realizes that many readers will simply read the transcript of Rossi's statement and quickly conclude, "Jeez! This Italian is a real wacko!" I suspect Krivit is banking on the hope that many readers would simply jump to such a conclusion without even bothering to watch the video of Rossi struggling to form proper English syntax. Therefore, for Krivit to have exploited Rossi in such a manner was opportunistic and IMO intentionally manipulative. I suspect it was done to bolster Krivit's assessment that Rossi must be confused about many things. I can only assume Krivit truly believes that he was doing his readers a service, due to his perceived prowess of analyzing the perceive analytical prowess of others, or the lack of. On that point I beg to differ, str
