Re: [Vo]:Magnetic pressure and magnetic temperature
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to David Jonsson's message of Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:47:15 +0200: Hi, [snip] Magnetic pressure is a well known concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure It struck me then that other concepts must be applicable to magnetism too like temperature. Temperature is really a measure of the average kinetic energy of particles, so a magnetic temperature may not have a lot of meaning. Then magnetic pressure wouldn't either. Pressure is just energy density. While temperature is also a global variable, computing it wouldn't be so easy. E.g. For a gas one can use p*V/(nR) to get T (for a perfect gas). By analogy, one could substitute magnetic pressure for p, and the volume of the magnet for V, but what does one substitute for n, the number of mole of magnetic atoms in the magnet? (not to mention what value to use for R). This is why a precise definition of magnetic temperature is needed. The ideal gas law is empirical and nothing says that magnetic temperature would have a similar law. I have defined what I mean with magnetic temperature. Where? If kinetic temperature is kB*T=3/2 me*v^2 for a moving electron a similar reasoning could be applied. When the charged particle moves the magnetic energy Um (from the field energy B^2/2µ) becomes µ q^2 v^2 Um = 12 pi r µ is permeability of surrounding medium q is the charge of the particle v is some averaged speed of particle r is the radius of the particle (if assumed to be spherical) Since µ will be dependent of the charged and ionized environment the value will be difficult to calculate. v would be some averaged speed of the particle. However with this definition magnetic temperature becomes Tm = Um/kB (or maybe 3Um/kB?) This would be applicable to monoatomic gases. For more complex molecules, lattices and metal plasmas additional modes of vibration and rotation would apply. This must be well investigated somewhere but probably with another name. David -- David Jonsson Sweden phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic pressure and magnetic temperature
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to David Jonsson's message of Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:35:22 +0200: Hi, [snip] Hi Magnetic pressure is a well known concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure It struck me then that other concepts must be applicable to magnetism too like temperature. Temperature is really a measure of the average kinetic energy of particles, so a magnetic temperature may not have a lot of meaning. Then magnetic pressure wouldn't either. I have defined what I mean with magnetic temperature. Pressure and temperature exist whenever energy is distributed on smaller components. Any energy form where the components are interacting have pressure and temperature (or at least heat) and maybe something more. Strike kinetic in your definition and replace it with interchangeable. By the way the kinetic and magnetic energy of an electron are indistinguishable. David
[Vo]:Magnetic pressure and magnetic temperature
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to David Jonsson's message of Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:35:22 +0200: Hi, [snip] Hi Magnetic pressure is a well known concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure It struck me then that other concepts must be applicable to magnetism too like temperature. Temperature is really a measure of the average kinetic energy of particles, so a magnetic temperature may not have a lot of meaning. Then magnetic pressure wouldn't either. I have defined what I mean with magnetic temperature. Pressure and temperature exist whenever energy is distributed on smaller components. Any energy form where the components are interacting have pressure and temperature (or at least heat) and maybe something more. Strike kinetic in your definition and replace it with interchangeable. By the way the kinetic and magnetic energy of an electron are indistinguishable. David
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic pressure and magnetic temperature
In reply to David Jonsson's message of Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:47:15 +0200: Hi, [snip] Magnetic pressure is a well known concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure It struck me then that other concepts must be applicable to magnetism too like temperature. Temperature is really a measure of the average kinetic energy of particles, so a magnetic temperature may not have a lot of meaning. Then magnetic pressure wouldn't either. Pressure is just energy density. While temperature is also a global variable, computing it wouldn't be so easy. E.g. For a gas one can use p*V/(nR) to get T (for a perfect gas). By analogy, one could substitute magnetic pressure for p, and the volume of the magnet for V, but what does one substitute for n, the number of mole of magnetic atoms in the magnet? (not to mention what value to use for R). This is why a precise definition of magnetic temperature is needed. I have defined what I mean with magnetic temperature. Where? Pressure and temperature exist whenever energy is distributed on smaller components. Any energy form where the components are interacting have pressure and temperature (or at least heat) and maybe something more. Strike kinetic in your definition and replace it with interchangeable. By the way the kinetic and magnetic energy of an electron are indistinguishable. ...so n hereabove would be the number of mole of electrons contributing to the magnetic field? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
[Vo]:Magnetic pressure and magnetic temperature
Hi Magnetic pressure is a well known concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure It struck me then that other concepts must be applicable to magnetism too like temperature. And there should also be electric pressure and temperature. The magnetic pressure Pm=B^2/2µ0 shourld vary on particle scale just as kinetic energy does in a gas. David
Re: [Vo]:Magnetic pressure and magnetic temperature
In reply to David Jonsson's message of Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:35:22 +0200: Hi, [snip] Hi Magnetic pressure is a well known concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_pressure It struck me then that other concepts must be applicable to magnetism too like temperature. Temperature is really a measure of the average kinetic energy of particles, so a magnetic temperature may not have a lot of meaning. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
