RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
EM drive is claimed to be relativistic so by making a closed system in our frame, [his trapezoidal microwave cavity], you are using Lorentzian effects to unbalance the normal equal and opposite reactions in our frame.. of course in the case of LENR the hydrogen never see it that way because it becomes time dilated and balances out the forces on an axis we perceive as temporal from our perspective. This is a neo Lorentzian perspective based on Naudt’s paper describing the hydrino as relativistic hydrogen.. Casimir suppression making space time lower than the isotropy, warping instead of the welling to create negative gravitational equivalent acceleration… if you spatially can’t go slower when already stationary then negative acceleration must effect the temporal coordinate instead –IMHO this is much easier at the nano scale than many suspect and is performed without energy by geometrical segregation of virtual particles into macro scale regions where smaller vp are concentrated in the suppression zones and larger vp congregate just outside. I think this segregation into macro scale regions large enough for physical matter to react with makes the quantum foam and HUP exploitable forces. Fran From: Hauke Hein [mailto:hhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 9:48 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Hi Steven I was thinking that maybe hydrogen at low pressure and moderate temperature has a molecular rms velocity of close to escape velocity. If one would calculate the weight of the hydrogen inside a hermetically closed container that has the right pressure and temperature for rms escape velocity and then weigh it with an supersensitive balance there might be a difference .I guess a certain percentage of the molecules would due to there speed and trajectory behave like the ones between parallel vertical plates like in our communication before and generate a small upward push. I know that should not work in a closed system but heck the EMDRIVE seems to work and that is a closed system! Regards Hauke Hein --- Mensaje Original --- Desde: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.netmailto:orionwo...@charter.net Enviado: 27 de julio de 2015 18:33 Para: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Asunto: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Hauke, I think your design concept is pretty much the same concept as mine. I would also speculate that using hydrogen atoms, or perhaps a hydrogen plasma stream, would help simplify what engineering might be involved. If there is a cover... then yes, it would be my suspicion that an upward thrust would be generated. Wish there was a way to find out if such an experiment could be conducted. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks From: Hauke Hein [mailto:hhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 4:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Hi Steven I read your idea with the cannonball between two reflekting mirrors. I had an idea similar but with lets say hydrogen atoms reflectet between two vertical parallel walls at escape velocity.I think those particals would follow a parabolic path climbing between the vertical walls.I wonder what would happen if one would install a horizontal cover on top of the parallel walls limiting the upwards movement of those oscillating particals?would they generate an upward pressure? Next question: what would happen if this takes place in a closed box? Hauke Hein --- Mensaje Original --- Desde: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.netmailto:orionwo...@charter.net Enviado: 27 de julio de 2015 16:09 Para: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Asunto: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Bob, Jones, Thanks for humoring me. I am not surprised that discussing energy/matter conversion techniques in 21st century terms is, how should I put it, a debatable matter. Here's where I'm going with my previous request: If practical M/E conversion technology could eventually be developed I think there might exist a particular type of thrust engine (mimicking anti-gravity) that could be developed capable of manipulating principals involving escape velocity angular momentum. Think of Newton's famous illustration showing a cannon shooting a series of cannon balls around the earth with increasing values of velocity. Given enough velocity, you eventually can get a cannon ball into an orbit around Earth. With a little more velocity, it's off to the Moon and beyond! Now, think of a unique kind of high-tech cannon ball (matter) that's travelling faster than 17.5k mph, a ball of mass that we could technologically convert into energy after only a short distance so that something like a mirror could reflect all the photons back, let's say back at approximately 180 degrees. Then, after a very short time, convert the ball
[Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Does there exist any kind of natural phenomenon we currently know of that might be capable of (under specific conditions) transforming from matter into energy and then back into matter in a cyclically controlled fashion - presumably with the aid of an advanced form of 21st Century technology? Please, no 23rd century Star Trek transporter speculation need apply here... too many extrapolations. For example, I give the following crude scenario: Convert a magnetically contained plasma toroid of spinning sub-atomic particles protons (fermions) into photons (bosons) - and then convert the photons back into protons. Do this cyclically and very quickly with the aid of some kind of super-duper 21 century technology. I can't immediately think of such a methodology using 21st century technology. But then... there might be few on this list who'd care to shine some light on the matter... no pun intended. Comments? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
To me, Hotson’s view is also correct, and another way of saying the same thing… possibly more intuitive, since it recognizes that epo field can “materialize” when excited, but is always a background condition. From: Bob Higgins According to Hotson, pair production is not matter creation, it is only ionizing an epo (electron - positron pair in a DDL-like orbit). To me, this is far more plausible than matter creation. Jones Beene wrote: Steven, It’s called “pair production” and is well-known but requires high energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production …photons converted to matter and vice-versa. …kinda like, you know … dilithium crystals… :-) From: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson Does there exist any kind of natural phenomenon we currently know of that might be capable of (under specific conditions) transforming from matter into energy and then back into matter in a cyclically controlled fashion - presumably with the aid of an advanced form of 21st Century technology? Please, no 23rd century Star Trek transporter speculation need apply here... too many extrapolations. For example, I give the following crude scenario: Convert a magnetically contained plasma toroid of spinning sub-atomic particles protons (fermions) into photons (bosons) – and then convert the photons back into protons. Do this cyclically and very quickly with the aid of some kind of super-duper 21 century technology. I can’t immediately think of such a methodology using 21st century technology. But then... there might be few on this list who'd care to shine some light on the matter... no pun intended. Comments? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Steven, It's called pair production and is well-known but requires high energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production .photons converted to matter and vice-versa. .kinda like, you know . dilithium crystals. J From: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson Does there exist any kind of natural phenomenon we currently know of that might be capable of (under specific conditions) transforming from matter into energy and then back into matter in a cyclically controlled fashion - presumably with the aid of an advanced form of 21st Century technology? Please, no 23rd century Star Trek transporter speculation need apply here... too many extrapolations. For example, I give the following crude scenario: Convert a magnetically contained plasma toroid of spinning sub-atomic particles protons (fermions) into photons (bosons) - and then convert the photons back into protons. Do this cyclically and very quickly with the aid of some kind of super-duper 21 century technology. I can't immediately think of such a methodology using 21st century technology. But then... there might be few on this list who'd care to shine some light on the matter... no pun intended. Comments? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
According to Hotson, pair production is not matter creation, it is only ionizing an epo (electron - positron pair in a DDL-like orbit). To me, this is far more plausible than matter creation. On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Steven, It’s called “pair production” and is well-known but requires high energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production …photons converted to matter and vice-versa. …kinda like, you know … dilithium crystals… J *From:* Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson Does there exist any kind of natural phenomenon we currently know of that might be capable of (under specific conditions) transforming from matter into energy and then back into matter in a cyclically controlled fashion - presumably with the aid of an advanced form of 21st Century technology? Please, no 23rd century Star Trek transporter speculation need apply here... too many extrapolations. For example, I give the following crude scenario: Convert a magnetically contained plasma toroid of spinning sub-atomic particles protons (fermions) into photons (bosons) – and then convert the photons back into protons. Do this cyclically and very quickly with the aid of some kind of super-duper 21 century technology. I can’t immediately think of such a methodology using 21st century technology. But then... there might be few on this list who'd care to shine some light on the matter... no pun intended. Comments? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Bob, Jones, Thanks for humoring me. I am not surprised that discussing energy/matter conversion techniques in 21st century terms is, how should I put it, a debatable matter. Here's where I'm going with my previous request: If practical M/E conversion technology could eventually be developed I think there might exist a particular type of thrust engine (mimicking anti-gravity) that could be developed capable of manipulating principals involving escape velocity angular momentum. Think of Newton's famous illustration showing a cannon shooting a series of cannon balls around the earth with increasing values of velocity. Given enough velocity, you eventually can get a cannon ball into an orbit around Earth. With a little more velocity, it's off to the Moon and beyond! Now, think of a unique kind of high-tech cannon ball (matter) that's travelling faster than 17.5k mph, a ball of mass that we could technologically convert into energy after only a short distance so that something like a mirror could reflect all the photons back, let's say back at approximately 180 degrees. Then, after a very short time, convert the ball of photons back into a ball of mass so that once again it continues to travel at 17.5k mph. Think of a fun house, a house of mirrors where you see yourself reflected ad-infinitum. It seems to me that since Earth's curvature, and associated gravity field, is still a physical factor in the cannon ball's back-and-forth velocity (which is still travelling at escape velocity)... I think that little critter is going to want to go up, up, UP, even though it's not travelling around Earth. I don't claim doing this is possible, or even practical; certainly not with the kind of technology we current have. I only claim that if a newfangled contraption could be built that could whack a bunch of malleable mass back-and-forth between a set of mirrors when it's briefly converted into its energy phase... according to my understanding of Newtonian physics, it just might work. I have a fallback plan. There's this guy trying to sell me shares in a dilithium mine. Out in the Gobi Desert somewhere. Wave of the future! A sure deal. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Hauke, I think your design concept is pretty much the same concept as mine. I would also speculate that using hydrogen atoms, or perhaps a hydrogen plasma stream, would help simplify what engineering might be involved. If there is a cover... then yes, it would be my suspicion that an upward thrust would be generated. Wish there was a way to find out if such an experiment could be conducted. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks From: Hauke Hein [mailto:hhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 4:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Hi Steven I read your idea with the cannonball between two reflekting mirrors. I had an idea similar but with lets say hydrogen atoms reflectet between two vertical parallel walls at escape velocity.I think those particals would follow a parabolic path climbing between the vertical walls.I wonder what would happen if one would install a horizontal cover on top of the parallel walls limiting the upwards movement of those oscillating particals?would they generate an upward pressure? Next question: what would happen if this takes place in a closed box? Hauke Hein --- Mensaje Original --- Desde: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net mailto:orionwo...@charter.net Enviado: 27 de julio de 2015 16:09 Para: vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Asunto: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Bob, Jones, Thanks for humoring me. I am not surprised that discussing energy/matter conversion techniques in 21st century terms is, how should I put it, a debatable matter. Here's where I'm going with my previous request: If practical M/E conversion technology could eventually be developed I think there might exist a particular type of thrust engine (mimicking anti-gravity) that could be developed capable of manipulating principals involving escape velocity angular momentum. Think of Newton's famous illustration showing a cannon shooting a series of cannon balls around the earth with increasing values of velocity. Given enough velocity, you eventually can get a cannon ball into an orbit around Earth. With a little more velocity, it's off to the Moon and beyond! Now, think of a unique kind of high-tech cannon ball (matter) that's travelling faster than 17.5k mph, a ball of mass that we could technologically convert into energy after only a short distance so that something like a mirror could reflect all the photons back, let's say back at approximately 180 degrees. Then, after a very short time, convert the ball of photons back into a ball of mass so that once again it continues to travel at 17.5k mph. Think of a fun house, a house of mirrors where you see yourself reflected ad-infinitum. It seems to me that since Earth's curvature, and associated gravity field, is still a physical factor in the cannon ball's back-and-forth velocity (which is still travelling at escape velocity)... I think that little critter is going to want to go up, up, UP, even though it's not travelling around Earth. I don't claim doing this is possible, or even practical; certainly not with the kind of technology we current have. I only claim that if a newfangled contraption could be built that could whack a bunch of malleable mass back-and-forth between a set of mirrors when it's briefly converted into its energy phase... according to my understanding of Newtonian physics, it just might work. I have a fallback plan. There's this guy trying to sell me shares in a dilithium mine. Out in the Gobi Desert somewhere. Wave of the future! A sure deal. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Hi Steven I read your idea with the cannonball between two reflekting mirrors. I had an idea similar but with lets say hydrogen atoms reflectet between two vertical parallel walls at escape velocity.I think those particals would follow a parabolic path climbing between the vertical walls.I wonder what would happen if one would install a horizontal cover on top of the parallel walls limiting the upwards movement of those oscillating particals?would they generate an upward pressure? Next question: what would happen if this takes place in a closed box? Hauke Hein --- Mensaje Original --- Desde: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net Enviado: 27 de julio de 2015 16:09 Para: vortex-l@eskimo.com Asunto: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Bob, Jones, Thanks for humoring me. I am not surprised that discussing energy/matter conversion techniques in 21st century terms is, how should I put it, a debatable matter. Here's where I'm going with my previous request: If practical M/E conversion technology could eventually be developed I think there might exist a particular type of thrust engine (mimicking anti-gravity) that could be developed capable of manipulating principals involving escape velocity angular momentum. Think of Newton's famous illustration showing a cannon shooting a series of cannon balls around the earth with increasing values of velocity. Given enough velocity, you eventually can get a cannon ball into an orbit around Earth. With a little more velocity, it's off to the Moon and beyond! Now, think of a unique kind of high-tech cannon ball (matter) that's travelling faster than 17.5k mph, a ball of mass that we could technologically convert into energy after only a short distance so that something like a mirror could reflect all the photons back, let's say back at approximately 180 degrees. Then, after a very short time, convert the ball of photons back into a ball of mass so that once again it continues to travel at 17.5k mph. Think of a fun house, a house of mirrors where you see yourself reflected ad-infinitum. It seems to me that since Earth's curvature, and associated gravity field, is still a physical factor in the cannon ball's back-and-forth velocity (which is still travelling at escape velocity)... I think that little critter is going to want to go up, up, UP, even though it's not travelling around Earth. I don't claim doing this is possible, or even practical; certainly not with the kind of technology we current have. I only claim that if a newfangled contraption could be built that could whack a bunch of malleable mass back-and-forth between a set of mirrors when it's briefly converted into its energy phase... according to my understanding of Newtonian physics, it just might work. I have a fallback plan. There's this guy trying to sell me shares in a dilithium mine. Out in the Gobi Desert somewhere. Wave of the future! A sure deal. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Jones wrote: It's called pair production and is well-known but requires high energy. Correction to the statement, . requires high energy. ONLY IF DEALING WITH THE INTERACTING ELEMENTS IN A NON-RESONANT MANNER. If you were using a process involving resonant principles, then much lower energy could be used. And there are a few other caveats too. -mark iverson From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 10:12 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Steven, It's called pair production and is well-known but requires high energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production .photons converted to matter and vice-versa. .kinda like, you know . dilithium crystals. J From: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson Does there exist any kind of natural phenomenon we currently know of that might be capable of (under specific conditions) transforming from matter into energy and then back into matter in a cyclically controlled fashion - presumably with the aid of an advanced form of 21st Century technology? Please, no 23rd century Star Trek transporter speculation need apply here... too many extrapolations. For example, I give the following crude scenario: Convert a magnetically contained plasma toroid of spinning sub-atomic particles protons (fermions) into photons (bosons) - and then convert the photons back into protons. Do this cyclically and very quickly with the aid of some kind of super-duper 21 century technology. I can't immediately think of such a methodology using 21st century technology. But then... there might be few on this list who'd care to shine some light on the matter... no pun intended. Comments? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back
Hi Steven I was thinking that maybe hydrogen at low pressure and moderate temperature has a molecular rms velocity of close to escape velocity. If one would calculate the weight of the hydrogen inside a hermetically closed container that has the right pressure and temperature for rms escape velocity and then weigh it with an supersensitive balance there might be a difference .I guess a certain percentage of the molecules would due to there speed and trajectory behave like the ones between parallel vertical plates like in our communication before and generate a small upward push. I know that should not work in a closed system but heck the EMDRIVE seems to work and that is a closed system! Regards Hauke Hein --- Mensaje Original --- Desde: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net Enviado: 27 de julio de 2015 18:33 Para: vortex-l@eskimo.com Asunto: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Hauke, I think your design concept is pretty much the same concept as mine. I would also speculate that using hydrogen atoms, or perhaps a hydrogen plasma stream, would help simplify what engineering might be involved. If there is a cover... then yes, it would be my suspicion that an upward thrust would be generated. Wish there was a way to find out if such an experiment could be conducted. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks From: Hauke Hein [mailto:hhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 4:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Hi Steven I read your idea with the cannonball between two reflekting mirrors. I had an idea similar but with lets say hydrogen atoms reflectet between two vertical parallel walls at escape velocity.I think those particals would follow a parabolic path climbing between the vertical walls.I wonder what would happen if one would install a horizontal cover on top of the parallel walls limiting the upwards movement of those oscillating particals?would they generate an upward pressure? Next question: what would happen if this takes place in a closed box? Hauke Hein --- Mensaje Original --- Desde: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net mailto:orionwo...@charter.net Enviado: 27 de julio de 2015 16:09 Para: vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Asunto: RE: [Vo]:Matter to energy, and back Bob, Jones, Thanks for humoring me. I am not surprised that discussing energy/matter conversion techniques in 21st century terms is, how should I put it, a debatable matter. Here's where I'm going with my previous request: If practical M/E conversion technology could eventually be developed I think there might exist a particular type of thrust engine (mimicking anti-gravity) that could be developed capable of manipulating principals involving escape velocity angular momentum. Think of Newton's famous illustration showing a cannon shooting a series of cannon balls around the earth with increasing values of velocity. Given enough velocity, you eventually can get a cannon ball into an orbit around Earth. With a little more velocity, it's off to the Moon and beyond! Now, think of a unique kind of high-tech cannon ball (matter) that's travelling faster than 17.5k mph, a ball of mass that we could technologically convert into energy after only a short distance so that something like a mirror could reflect all the photons back, let's say back at approximately 180 degrees. Then, after a very short time, convert the ball of photons back into a ball of mass so that once again it continues to travel at 17.5k mph. Think of a fun house, a house of mirrors where you see yourself reflected ad-infinitum. It seems to me that since Earth's curvature, and associated gravity field, is still a physical factor in the cannon ball's back-and-forth velocity (which is still travelling at escape velocity)... I think that little critter is going to want to go up, up, UP, even though it's not travelling around Earth. I don't claim doing this is possible, or even practical; certainly not with the kind of technology we current have. I only claim that if a newfangled contraption could be built that could whack a bunch of malleable mass back-and-forth between a set of mirrors when it's briefly converted into its energy phase... according to my understanding of Newtonian physics, it just might work. I have a fallback plan. There's this guy trying to sell me shares in a dilithium mine. Out in the Gobi Desert somewhere. Wave of the future! A sure deal. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks
