Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
Don't think I have Microsim pspice lying around anywhere anymore (and non-GUI is very slow and clumsy if not using it frequently), it was an excellent little tool (or was in late 90's when I used it last) that I spent 100's of hours with, and is useful even for the amateur, probably still out there somewhere on the interwebs if hunted for. Principle problem with using it is that it doesn't have models for the clamp ammeters transfer functions. I also don't have the hours required to hunt this down and run it at the moment. On 31 May 2013 22:14, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Robert, Dave Roberson has challenged anyone to do a spice model RE: at least one of the concerns over DC input power. Do you know how to use Spice, and would you be willing to try to duplicate his model in order to determine if its valid, and if not, why? -Mark ** ** *From:* Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 1:26 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE ** ** Another EE here (plus mechanical undergrad). On balance I think Rossi has something, but I have been disappointed by too many of his slap-dash demos over the last two years to put my reputation on the line in backing him. And there are some potentially big holes in the electrical power delivery (that have been discussed to death here). I can't give him the benefit of the doubt give his dubious history, and It would need a more rigorously instrumented test by people who are more aggressively skeptical than in his tests to date for me to give unequivocal support. ** ** On 31 May 2013 18:51, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. ** ** On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
Let me make a suggestion Robert. The linear technology company publishes a spice program that can be downloaded and used by the general public. This is a fantastic offering and I have found it extremely accurate. Anyone who has an interest in electronic modeling would be well advised to get this gem. It took me about 15 minutes to model the performance of a simple diode rectified system. I made a model which showed without any doubt that the power being delivered by a sine wave generator can be measured at the source by looking only at the fundamental current sine wave component. Any DC currents that flow through this source do not make any difference to the measurement of source power. Also, any harmonic currents that flow due to load distortion do not change the power reading at the source as I have stated several times. If you question this assertion, then I think it is common courteously to take the small amount of time requested to prove your position. I will make myself available to help you install and operate a model if you wish. The program SwCAD III also performs FFT's of the current waveform making the measurement we are discussing trivial. Let me know if you need further assistance. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Jun 1, 2013 12:14 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE Don't think I have Microsim pspice lying around anywhere anymore (and non-GUI is very slow and clumsy if not using it frequently), it was an excellent little tool (or was in late 90's when I used it last) that I spent 100's of hours with, and is useful even for the amateur, probably still out there somewhere on the interwebs if hunted for. Principle problem with using it is that it doesn't have models for the clamp ammeters transfer functions. I also don't have the hours required to hunt this down and run it at the moment. On 31 May 2013 22:14, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Robert, Dave Roberson has challenged anyone to do a spice model RE: at least one of the concerns over DC input power. Do you know how to use Spice, and would you be willing to try to duplicate his model in order to determine if its valid, and if not, why? -Mark From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 1:26 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE Another EE here (plus mechanical undergrad). On balance I think Rossi has something, but I have been disappointed by too many of his slap-dash demos over the last two years to put my reputation on the line in backing him. And there are some potentially big holes in the electrical power delivery (that have been discussed to death here). I can't give him the benefit of the doubt give his dubious history, and It would need a more rigorously instrumented test by people who are more aggressively skeptical than in his tests to date for me to give unequivocal support. On 31 May 2013 18:51, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:14:06 AM Don't think I have Microsim pspice lying around anywhere anymore (and non-GUI is very slow and clumsy if not using it frequently), it was an excellent little tool (or was in late 90's when I used it last) that I spent 100's of hours with, and is useful even for the amateur, probably still out there somewhere on the interwebs if hunted for. ltspice (which I use) has a nice little schematic editor (hierarchical, with symbols and one sheet at each level) and waveform display [you can do arithmetic on nodes, eg power = (V(node1)-V(node2))*I(comp.pin) ]. Works fine (for me) up to a couple of thousand nodes. I'm not sure what models you want -- behavioral voltage and current models Bxxx node1 node2 V = expression of node voltages, pin currents etc etc Bxxx node1 node2 I = expression of node voltages, pin currents etc etc
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:28:13 AM Let me make a suggestion Robert. The linear technology company publishes a spice program that can be downloaded and used by the general public. That's the LTspice I just recommended.
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
Does anyone know if the power analyzer sees DC *VOLTAGES*? -- Berke Durak
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
Another EE here (plus mechanical undergrad). On balance I think Rossi has something, but I have been disappointed by too many of his slap-dash demos over the last two years to put my reputation on the line in backing him. And there are some potentially big holes in the electrical power delivery (that have been discussed to death here). I can't give him the benefit of the doubt give his dubious history, and It would need a more rigorously instrumented test by people who are more aggressively skeptical than in his tests to date for me to give unequivocal support. On 31 May 2013 18:51, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
RE: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
Robert, Dave Roberson has challenged anyone to do a spice model RE: at least one of the concerns over DC input power. Do you know how to use Spice, and would you be willing to try to duplicate his model in order to determine if its valid, and if not, why? -Mark From: Robert Lynn [mailto:robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 1:26 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE Another EE here (plus mechanical undergrad). On balance I think Rossi has something, but I have been disappointed by too many of his slap-dash demos over the last two years to put my reputation on the line in backing him. And there are some potentially big holes in the electrical power delivery (that have been discussed to death here). I can't give him the benefit of the doubt give his dubious history, and It would need a more rigorously instrumented test by people who are more aggressively skeptical than in his tests to date for me to give unequivocal support. On 31 May 2013 18:51, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
What kind of credibility problems will the National instrument techs have after the Ni show demo? What can Ni do to make that test fraud-proof? On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.comwrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE
ignore and make business. that is what serious guys do. 2013/5/31 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com What kind of credibility problems will the National instrument techs have after the Ni show demo? What can Ni do to make that test fraud-proof? On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.comwrote: I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.
