Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
In reply to Alan Fletcher's message of Fri, 19 Apr 2013 14:14:43 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:53:22 AM How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave In between the two there's a moving fluid (water,steam...) carrying heat away. You most likely end up with dynamic equilibrium, but the ni/h zone can be lower than the thermalization area. If f/H atoms/molecules are being produced, then they may find their way into the Boron, resulting in p-B11 reactions. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
In reply to Teslaalset's message of Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:35:48 +0200: Hi, [snip] Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. ...or proton absorption by Boron. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
LOL – Copper is incredibly mobile with a vapour pressure several orders of magnitude higher then Nickel at the same temperature. Even at 950C the copper vapour is spreading is spreading copper everywhere… almost as annoying as all the inconsistencies in Rossi’s patent. From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: 19 April 2013 00:23 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.commailto:robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 3:35 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.commailto:a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Hmm... this may be the first time that the particular detail about copper metal vapor has come up, but it raises the issue (if Rossi could be believed) ... about copper vapor and an internal laser. It could be inadvertent lasing but providing a window in his reactor could indicate that it is also being stimulated. Copper vapor lasers are efficient, but require 1500 C - so halides are often used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_vapor_laser ... makes one wonder if copper hydride would work. This paper turns up: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/939.pdf ... but we all tend to think of Rossi as not being that sophisticated. It would be mind boggling if lasing were being employed. Rothwell has been saying for some time that the underneath the clown costume, Rossi is a brilliant inventor and that the is method in his madness. Is the Hot-Cat an indication of more intentional misdirection, or is Rossi for real ? From: Mark Snoswell LOL - Copper is incredibly mobile with a vapour pressure several orders of magnitude higher then Nickel at the same temperature. Even at 950C the copper vapour is spreading is spreading copper everywhere... almost as annoying as all the inconsistencies in Rossi's patent. From: David Roberson How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Rothwell has been saying for some time that the underneath the clown costume, Rossi is a brilliant inventor and that the is method in his madness. To clarify, that is what people who have worked with him tell me. He does have a solid track record in catalysis-related work, with the biofuels Diesel engines. Also some disasters, but that is inevitable. There is no success without failure. I do not know if there is method to his madness or whether he works on pure intuition. Ed Storms has the impression that Rossi works intuitively and cannot file a good patent because he does not know on a deep, generalized level, how the reactors work. Mike Melich says Rossi thinks by working with his hands, the way a gifted artist does. Artists do not express their idea in words but in the objects they create. There is nothing wrong or un-intellectual about this mode of expression, unless you think Auguste Rodin was a simpleton. On the subject of disastrous failure, Krivit reports that Russ George is in deep trouble: http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/04/08/u-s-businessman-takes-first-nation-people-for-2-5-million/ http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/04/10/canadian-environmental-authorities-seize-evidence-from-georges-offices/ I hope this is not true but it would not shock me if it is. Krivit also reported on the publication of this paper, which he did not name: J. Appl. Phys. *112*, 083510 (2012); http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.4759166http://link.aip.org/link/doi/10.1063/1.4759166 (*6 pages*) - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Or is the copper vapour forming a catalytic layer on the Nickel to have Hydrogen absorbed faster On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: So, this is why Rossi claimed to have nickel converted into copper and recently says this is not the case anymore. Je probably does not use copper tubes anymore for holding the nickel. On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Hmm... this may be the first time that the particular detail about copper metal vapor has come up, but it raises the issue (if Rossi could be believed) ... about copper vapor and an internal laser. It could be inadvertent lasing but providing a window in his reactor could indicate that it is also being stimulated. Copper vapor lasers are efficient, but require 1500 C - so halides are often used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_vapor_laser ... makes one wonder if copper hydride would work. This paper turns up: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/939.pdf ... but we all tend to think of Rossi as not being that sophisticated. It would be mind boggling if lasing were being employed. Rothwell has been saying for some time that the underneath the clown costume, Rossi is a brilliant inventor and that the is method in his madness. Is the Hot-Cat an indication of more intentional misdirection, or is Rossi for real ? From: Mark Snoswell LOL - Copper is incredibly mobile with a vapour pressure several orders of magnitude higher then Nickel at the same temperature. Even at 950C the copper vapour is spreading is spreading copper everywhere... almost as annoying as all the inconsistencies in Rossi's patent. From: David Roberson How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave
RE: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
The previous post on copper-hydride lasing was unclear. The suggestion is that there is a remote possibility that Rossi could be achieving internal photon coherency from copper hydride vapor. He would want the coherency and not the beam. The photon coherency inside the reactor would then be related to triggering the energetic reaction of hydrogen and nickel. Since Ni-62 is now claimed by Rossi in Claim One to be the active nickel isotope, and Cu-63 is the copper isotope which lases, then it could that we are seeing fractional hydrogen converting nickel based on quantum entanglement from copper coherency. The way the patent is now worded, only Ni-62 is active - so Rossi has essentially backed himself into a corner on that detail. This could mean that he is very confident of the mechanism. Obviously, he is not trying to create a laser that projects a beam of light out of the reactor. The window would allow for an external beam to be focused into the vapor to start, or to maintain, photon coherency. Such a reactor could be started with a heat source plus the laser, and then the heat is shut down but laser input maintains internal coherency. There is some indication that the heat source for the HotCat startup is natural gas. This all assumes that Rossi is for real. To be honest, based on his past antics, I see the odds of that being well below 50/50. _ Hmm... this may be the first time that the particular detail about copper metal vapor has come up, but it raises the issue (if Rossi could be believed) ... about copper vapor and an internal laser. It could be inadvertent lasing but providing a window in his reactor could indicate that it is also being stimulated. Copper vapor lasers are efficient, but require 1500 C - so halides are often used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_vapor_laser ... makes one wonder if copper hydride would work. This paper turns up: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/939.pdf ... but we all tend to think of Rossi as not being that sophisticated. It would be mind boggling if lasing were being employed. Rothwell has been saying for some time that the underneath the clown costume, Rossi is a brilliant inventor and that the is method in his madness. Is the Hot-Cat an indication of more intentional misdirection, or is Rossi for real ? From: Mark Snoswell LOL - Copper is incredibly mobile with a vapour pressure several orders of magnitude higher then Nickel at the same temperature. Even at 950C the copper vapour is spreading is spreading copper everywhere... almost as annoying as all the inconsistencies in Rossi's patent. From: David Roberson How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:53:22 AM How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave In between the two there's a moving fluid (water,steam...) carrying heat away. You most likely end up with dynamic equilibrium, but the ni/h zone can be lower than the thermalization area.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 3:35 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_plant_explosion On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 3:35 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Excuse the off-topic post. It was a mistake. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:38 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_plant_explosion On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.comwrote: How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 3:35 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
You had me scratching my head there! -Original Message- From: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 12:42 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates Excuse the off-topic post. It was a mistake. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:38 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_plant_explosion On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:53 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: How would the nickel/hydrogen mixture be at a lower temperature than the region that completely surrounds it? Heat would travel toward the cooler center until it was in equilibrium. Dave -Original Message- From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 3:35 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates Only one possibility then: neutron absorbtion by boron? I noticed boron is prominently mentioned as well. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi might have tried a ready made nickel-copper heat exchanger as his reactor, because they have lots of surface area for the absorption of hydrogen. Harry On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote: If Rossi needs a copper tube to generate heat someone should try using an alloy of copper and nickel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel Come to think of it Celani is already doing this because his wire is made of constantan which contains copper and nickel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantan Harry On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/04/updates-to-rossis-european-patent-application/ links to https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?number=EP08873805lng=entab=doclist Main comments on e-catworld (quick read) : In his newest version of claims, the fact that the reactor tube needs to be copper has now made it up to claim 1, and in his letter this is pointed out as being an essential factor. and a letter saying it's rejected because CF isn't mainstream science : https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=EUIP1SP64903FI4number=EP08873805lng=ennpl=false
RE: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Recall that many codeposit approaches (see Boss for example) use Pd on Copper or Ni on Cu. Cu and Au are often helpful in fine powders or in the production of black for these kinds of experiments. D2 Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 01:54:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates From: hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Rossi might have tried a ready made nickel-copper heat exchanger as his reactor, because they have lots of surface area for the absorption of hydrogen. Harry On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: If Rossi needs a copper tube to generate heat someone should try using an alloy of copper and nickel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel Come to think of it Celani is already doing this because his wire is made of constantan which contains copper and nickel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantan Harry On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/04/updates-to-rossis-european-patent-application/ links to https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?number=EP08873805lng=entab=doclist Main comments on e-catworld (quick read) : In his newest version of claims, the fact that the reactor tube needs to be copper has now made it up to claim 1, and in his letter this is pointed out as being an essential factor. and a letter saying it's rejected because CF isn't mainstream science : https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=EUIP1SP64903FI4number=EP08873805lng=ennpl=false
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
I know where it takes place ... in the tenth of thousand of warm regards! 2013/4/17 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com At 01:23 AM 4/17/2013, Teslaalset wrote: This is in contradiction with the performance of Rossi's 'hot cat' where he's getting 1000 degrees C. Copper melts at 1083 degrees C. The thermalization takes place elsewhere ... in particular, away from the nickel/hydrogen, where the patent says 500C.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
If Rossi needs a copper tube to generate heat someone should try using an alloy of copper and nickel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel Come to think of it Celani is already doing this because his wire is made of constantan which contains copper and nickel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantan Harry On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/04/updates-to-rossis-european-patent-application/ links to https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?number=EP08873805lng=entab=doclist Main comments on e-catworld (quick read) : In his newest version of claims, the fact that the reactor tube needs to be copper has now made it up to claim 1, and in his letter this is pointed out as being an essential factor. and a letter saying it's rejected because CF isn't mainstream science : https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=EUIP1SP64903FI4number=EP08873805lng=ennpl=false
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Patent updates
Rossi might have tried a ready made nickel-copper heat exchanger as his reactor, because they have lots of surface area for the absorption of hydrogen. Harry On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: If Rossi needs a copper tube to generate heat someone should try using an alloy of copper and nickel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel Come to think of it Celani is already doing this because his wire is made of constantan which contains copper and nickel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantan Harry On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/04/updates-to-rossis-european-patent-application/ links to https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?number=EP08873805lng=entab=doclist Main comments on e-catworld (quick read) : In his newest version of claims, the fact that the reactor tube needs to be copper has now made it up to claim 1, and in his letter this is pointed out as being an essential factor. and a letter saying it's rejected because CF isn't mainstream science : https://register.epo.org/espacenet/application?documentId=EUIP1SP64903FI4number=EP08873805lng=ennpl=false
