Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
While it might be true that we need new engines for most of the new fuels, butanol can be used in gasoline engines with little or no modification, making Jones' idea doubly useful. --- R.C.Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) In this admosphere and culture, don't expect results. Expect more of what we are getting.. No progress in the US energy sector.Look overseas for emerging technology in new energy because the US has abrogated it's mandate. I made a suggestion to our local economic development groups. My comment was that if we had a source of new energy fuel, we woud not have the engine for the fuel. We know what many of the new fuels are.. we don't have an engine for their use. The present design of engines are actually technology used to build steam engines way back when. I suggested the design approach to a new engine would be by designing a transmission with an engine inside rather than an engine with a transmission inside.That ridiculus remark almost got me kicked outa the Dime Box Saloon technology society. Richard Jones wrote, In a year of political infighting and 'grasping at straws' for one-upsmanship on the energy-front, this partial solution to an enormous problem could be a good 'talking point,' and should be worth presenting to a candidate. Too bad the geographical areas which would benefit the most have so few voters. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
Jones, far be it from me to knock any idea to expand the use of wind power but wouldn't it be simpler to use a pyrolysing/gasification process to turn the cellulose into syngas? This has the added benefit that part of the biomass feedstock could be turned into bio-char which is being researched at Cornell Uni because it acts as an amazing soil conditioner inasmuch as it stabilises soil, reduces the need for so much fertiliser, harbours useful bacteria and fungi, reduces irrigation etc. It also acts to (virtually) permanently sequester large amounts of carbon in the soil - carbon negative energy! Woody material is better at increasing fertility than grasses. Try googling Terra preta. It was investigating the black soil of the Amazon that brought these properties to the fore - a surprisingly fertile (that should have been poor) soil caused mostly by repeated burning off of vegetation. Nick
Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
In reply to R.C.Macaulay's message of Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:57:49 -0600: Hi, [snip] I suggested the design approach to a new engine would be by designing a transmission with an engine inside rather than an engine with a transmission inside.That ridiculus remark almost got me kicked outa the Dime Box Saloon technology society. Sounds like an electric motor in each wheel. ;) Richard [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
--- Michael : While it might be true that we need new engines for most of the new fuels, butanol can be used in gasoline engines with little or no modification, making Jones' idea doubly useful. Indeed. It even gives us slightly better mileage and less toxic emissions in older gasoline engines with no modification. Check out: http://www.butanol.com/
Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
- Original Message - From: Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Sounds like an electric motor in each wheel. ;) MC: A Japanese group has built an all electric car with stunning performance, using eight in-wheel motors and lithium -ion-cost-no-object batteries. There is a limit to the power of an in-wheel motor, so they used eight to get the acceleration needed. It will out-accelerate a top of the line P orche.and go at high spped. Crusing range 300 kM per charge. GM is reported to use the in-wheel motor in an advanced electric car. Makes sense in that mechanical tremission losses are avoided. Mike Carrell Richard [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant. This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
--- Nick but wouldn't it be simpler to use a pyrolysing/gasification process to turn the cellulose into syngas? Simpler yes, and it would be a lower initial investment... perhaps it is a good way to start-out, but significant CO2 is produced; whereas with the aqua-gen type of conversion, almost none. CO2 at that stage also reduces the energy content available for sale as a liquid fuel. I don't know which way would result in the most cost effective solution, or best ROI - probably the pyrolysis since it is simpler and relatively cheap, but it would be significantly less green (ecologically desirable). If a good basic windmill design could ever be standardized (perhaps world-wide) and then mass-produced to achieve rock-bottom cost, then it would make a stronger case for many situations. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Wind-Switching.: Making butanol for a dollar a gallon
Jones Beene wrote: One further thought on a partial, practical and simple but innovative solution - to the over-use of fossil fuels in the USA: Putting wind to work on switchgrass farms. Indian Reservations, which need the jobs and investment. Too bad the geographical areas which would benefit the most have so few voters There are Indian tribes who are looking for just such a thing, and they have money to invest too. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
