[Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
Gee, my serendipitous 'webbing' this eve has been quite interesting and fruitful. here's one more. I promise I'll go to bed after this one! Seeing the Quantum in Quantum Zero-Point Fluctuations http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/8 PDF for actual article being described: http://physics.aps.org/featured-article-pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.033602 This statement made me think about the problem of how the 'missing' gammas are absorbed into the lattice as phonons: This approach yields relatively high-frequency mechanical resonances (with gigahertz-scale frequencies), which makes cooling easier and yields well-separated sidebands. The tight localization of modes also yields *very strong optomechanical couplings*. And especially this.. In addition, this setup allows a single mechanical resonance to be coupled to many distinct optical resonances. Would a gamma be considered 'optical'? I do not know whether the conditions which were present in the experiment above are present in LENR. so it may not be relevant. G'nite, -Mark
RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
Hi Mark Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen. There is too much disproportion in wavelength. However UV and EUV are both absorbed, absorbed strongly, and are optical. There is plenty of good evidence that anomalous gain does manifest in EUV. The area of so-called soft x-rays is a middle ground. These are not considered optical and are little studied. Jones Gee, my serendipitous 'webbing' this eve has been quite interesting and fruitful. here's one more. I promise I'll go to bed after this one! Seeing the Quantum in Quantum Zero-Point Fluctuations http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/8 PDF for actual article being described: http://physics.aps.org/featured-article-pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.033602 This statement made me think about the problem of how the 'missing' gammas are absorbed into the lattice as phonons: This approach yields relatively high-frequency mechanical resonances (with gigahertz-scale frequencies), which makes cooling easier and yields well-separated sidebands. The tight localization of modes also yields *very strong optomechanical couplings*. And especially this.. In addition, this setup allows a single mechanical resonance to be coupled to many distinct optical resonances. Would a gamma be considered 'optical'? I do not know whether the conditions which were present in the experiment above are present in LENR. so it may not be relevant. G'nite, -Mark
Re: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in the first place. After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly excited and state and will need to release its energy. The conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options determined by energy and momentum balance. One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within the lattice. The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will be coupled into the state (because quanta of vibartional energy obey Bose statistics). This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much in the manner of a laser. This may be the route that the energy from the excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the intermediate resonant mode. The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalised, which would dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work, such as generate electricity. Nigel On 18/01/2012 14:51, Jones Beene wrote: Hi Mark Good finds -- burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen. Jones
RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
Yes, and let me add this. Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the magic phonon hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it. What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance for him to find the proper place to do it. He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. Yes, It is that simple ! . yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. Jones From: Nigel Dyer I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in the first place. After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly excited and state and will need to release its energy. The conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options determined by energy and momentum balance. One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within the lattice. The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will be coupled into the state (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose statistics). This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much in the manner of a laser. This may be the route that the energy from the excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the intermediate resonant mode. The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work, such as generate electricity. Nigel Jones Beene wrote: Hi Mark Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen. Jones
RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
But what is the likelihood that Peter would get permission to use a beam line for that debunked/junk science called cold fusion? Probability is very low. and if the hot fusion group has any say, the probability is zero. -mi From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:48 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling Yes, and let me add this. Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the magic phonon hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it. What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance for him to find the proper place to do it. He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. Yes, It is that simple ! . yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. Jones From: Nigel Dyer I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in the first place. After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly excited and state and will need to release its energy. The conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options determined by energy and momentum balance. One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within the lattice. The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will be coupled into the state (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose statistics). This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much in the manner of a laser. This may be the route that the energy from the excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the intermediate resonant mode. The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work, such as generate electricity. Nigel Jones Beene wrote: Hi Mark Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen. Jones
RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
I don't think it would be a problem at any University that has one - to secure a standard gamma source for testing, for this reason. If there is any conceivable way to shield against gammas more efficiently - then this is very valuable knowledge for such things as space exploration. Plus it is new physics. and it does not absolutely have to be associated with you-know-what, to be important. Hagelstein does a few other things besides LENR, after all. From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint But what is the likelihood that Peter would get permission to use a beam line for that debunked/junk science called cold fusion? Probability is very low. and if the hot fusion group has any say, the probability is zero. -mi From: Jones Beene Yes, and let me add this. Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the magic phonon hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it. What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance for him to find the proper place to do it. He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. Yes, It is that simple ! . yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. Jones From: Nigel Dyer I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in the first place. After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly excited and state and will need to release its energy. The conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options determined by energy and momentum balance. One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within the lattice. The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will be coupled into the state (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose statistics). This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much in the manner of a laser. This may be the route that the energy from the excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the intermediate resonant mode. The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work, such as generate electricity. Nigel Jones Beene wrote: Hi Mark Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen. Jones
Re: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
The Constants of the Motion Tend toward the Electromagnetic in a Bose condensate stimulated at a Dimensional Frequency of 1.094 megahertz meters Frank Znidarsic 1999. As before, Mechanical waves couple with electromagnetic waves under this condition. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:48 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling Yes, and let me add this. Peter Hagelstein has beenthe primary proponent of the “magic phonon” hypothesis - the nearlycomplete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he is quick to admit thereis no physical evidence for it. What he does not say is thatthe evidence would be incredibly easy for him to demonstrate, if it were there- and moreover - within walking distance for him to find the proper place to doit. He can get surely get freetime on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma radiation. Following which,the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly)or not, is almost self-evident. Yes, It is that simple ! …yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack of evidence in this case, whereit should be so simple to come by, is itself evidence indicating that themagic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. Jones From:Nigel Dyer I think we should be considering the possibility thatthere are no gammas in the first place. After the LENR event thenucleus will be in a highly excited and state and will need to release itsenergy. The conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energeticparticle) with the options determined by energy and momentum balance. One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is somekind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within thelattice. The more quanta of energy there is associated with themode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited statewill be coupled into the state (because quanta of vibrational energy obeyBose statistics). This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state,much in the manner of a laser. This may be the route that the energy fromthe excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal latticeenergy, via the intermediate resonant mode. The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we canextract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which woulddramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work,such as generate electricity. Nigel Jones Beene wrote: Hi Mark Good finds – burning themidnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance ofevidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not asingle shred of evidence that this can happen. Jones
RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling
Where’s the proof? From: fznidar...@aol.com The Constants of the Motion Tend toward the Electromagnetic in a Bose condensate stimulated at a Dimensional Frequency of 1.094 megahertz meters Frank Znidarsic 1999. As before, Mechanical waves couple with electromagnetic waves under this condition. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene Yes, and let me add this. Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the “magic phonon” hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it. What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance for him to find the proper place to do it. He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. Yes, It is that simple ! … yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. Jones From: Nigel Dyer I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in the first place. After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly excited and state and will need to release its energy. The conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options determined by energy and momentum balance. One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within the lattice. The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will be coupled into the state (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose statistics). This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much in the manner of a laser. This may be the route that the energy from the excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the intermediate resonant mode. The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429 If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work, such as generate electricity. Nigel Jones Beene wrote: Hi Mark Good finds – burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen. Jones
