Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
*During the setup of the laboratory in Milan various improvements were introduced by the DE technicians and scientists concerning the calorimetry measurement. In particular a method independent of the flow rate measurement has been developed based on the heating of a large amount of water contained in a large tank and circulated through a pump in a closed circuit.* *This must be “constant volume heat capacity Calorimetry” where the volume of water in the take remains constant but the pressure of the water increases as the temperature of the water rises.* *Since the highly insolated tank holds a large volume of water, the holding tank requires a stirrer so that the water in the tank does not stratify. * *As the water rises in temperature, the water transfers less heat in a constant flow of water.* As the reactor coils begins to cool and the cold water begins to warm, the difference in their temperatures decrease and the rate of heat transfer decreases. As thermal equilibrium is approached, their temperatures are approaching the same value. With the temperature difference approaching zero, the rate of heat transfer approaches zero. In conclusion, the rate of conductive heat transfer between two locations is affected by the temperature difference between the two locations. In addition, throughout a heat exchange, the mass-flow rate should remain constant, but changes in temperature and pressure can change the volumetric flow rate. So a water flow should be stated as a mass flow, a volumetric flow at standard conditions, or as a volumetric flow including temperature and pressure. To insure thermal stability of the reactor, the circulating pump should provide a variable flow and be calibrated to insure that the mass flow remains constant. If the graphical presentation of the demo is meant to show a running COP vs. the time of reactor operation, the Computer program that renders the graphical interface would be required to be rewritten to take into account the new complex interplay of variables that accompany the change in the type of Calorimetry*. * To avoid errors in theoretical analysis in these variables, a calibration of the new Calorimetry system is best accomplished by using an electrical resistive simulation of the system by developing a dummy reactor that can producing a variable electric heat source that varies between 2 and 5 kilowatts of power in a periodic cycle to simulate the operation of the reactor in real-time. Such a simulation would run into the tens of thousands of dollars and require an extended timeframe to complete. Once this simulation was calibrated, the data is then input into the graphical rendering program to accurately show a real-time COP. Temperature of the water is meaningless because of the complex interplay of thermal variables with time. *This measure is independent of the measurement of the flow through the coil and it would remove any doubt about the heat measurement. DGT has not allowed DE to use such measurement in none of the tests of their technology.* IMHO, this is reasonable on the part of the DGT personnel because the change in calorimetric approach is disruptive to the entire range of the demos initial design and setup. The new calorimetric approach is also expensive to design, recode, and calibrate. *As a further improvement we added a second flowmeter upstream of the water system in order to verify the behavior of the main flowmeter during the measurement of the excess power but also in this case the added flowmeter was readily removed by the DGT technicians forbidding us to make any verification.* This is reasonable on the part of the *DGT technicians *since Water flow has been removed as a valid variable in the new *“constant volume heat capacity Calorimetry” approach *for this demo. In conclusion, it sounds to me even as a laymen in calorimetry that the DGT Europe group did not know what they were doing…they were inept. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: You are naïve to believe this man who claims fraud as opposed to incompetence in setting up a demo for the first time. He did not set up the demo! The people from Defkalion did. When he tried to change it, they came in and removed all of his equipment, changing it back: During the setup of the laboratory in Milan various improvements were introduced by the DE technicians and scientists concerning the calorimetry measurement. In particular a method independent of the flow rate measurement has been developed based on the heating of a large amount of water contained in a large tank and circulated through a pump in a closed circuit. This measure is independent of the measurement of the flow through the coil and it would remove any doubt about the heat measurement. DGT has not allowed DE to use such measurement in none of the tests of their technology. As a further
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
You take seriously the Gamberale and dismiss the demo. Backflow- at minimal flow values can cause some errors . OK how great t these errors can be at normal flow values? OK, look to the important things: 1- the spark plugs begin to work thr reaction is reiggered, in short time out put jumps from 2kW to 7 or 5kw, fast and natural- how can you fake this with to valves and one flowmeter- see how consistently the values of heat are evoluting? 2- test of July 23, Mats blows the current deep degassing ia incomplere and the values of heat ar 40% lower than the previous day. Can we fake it? 3- if you do not understand the role and importance f deep degassinh, and after a H test, without proper standardized degassing yiou will obtain a false positive and you will say jubilating- with Argon the system also works! Peter On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Yes, you are correct Jed. Although, it is still a silly attitude as the ability to reach the goal is diminished - 25 years and counting. The other side of it is that it is my experience that patents are worth very little if you do not have deep pockets to defend it with. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Then envy and greed makes for salty and sometimes downright insulting comments. I think it is a pity. As a group we could accomplish a lot. Share and you will receive. That is what patents are for. With a patent you share and yet your greed is satisfied. You can have your cake and eat it too. That is why the inability to get patents is causing secrecy. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Jed, I think it hangs together with money or perhaps better greed. Many people in this group can see the big light in the end of the tunnel and I think it looks like $ Billion $. Then envy and greed makes for salty and sometimes downright insulting comments. I think it is a pity. As a group we could accomplish a lot. Share and you will receive. ( No, not a bible verse.) Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Why can't free energy companies be like other companies? I feel that the amount of cloak and dagger and intrigue is overrepresented in this niche. Yup. I think there are two main reasons: 1. No patent protection. 2. Strange, secretive people. The field attracts strange people while it repels conventional people. That is my impression, but that may be partly my bias. We expect strange people in this field, so we take note of them. There might be just as many strange people in other professions, but we do not look for them. We may not notice them among CPAs, policemen, farmers or government bureaucrats. You did notice them among old school programmers, who tended to be flamboyant. In some groups, strange people hide their eccentricities while in other groups they advertise them. Old school professors used to emphasize odd behavior and strange clothing choices. It was charming. See this scene from the movie IQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7stiKJsGjY He doesn't look like a scientist . . . Now this is a tie, to hold up your pants. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Then envy and greed makes for salty and sometimes downright insulting comments. I think it is a pity. As a group we could accomplish a lot. Share and you will receive. That is what patents are for. With a patent you share and yet your greed is satisfied. You can have your cake and eat it too. That is why the inability to get patents is causing secrecy. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Yes, you are correct Jed. Although, it is still a silly attitude as the ability to reach the goal is diminished - 25 years and counting. The other side of it is that it is my experience that patents are worth very little if you do not have deep pockets to defend it with. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Then envy and greed makes for salty and sometimes downright insulting comments. I think it is a pity. As a group we could accomplish a lot. Share and you will receive. That is what patents are for. With a patent you share and yet your greed is satisfied. You can have your cake and eat it too. That is why the inability to get patents is causing secrecy. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Why can't free energy companies be like other companies? I feel that the amount of cloak and dagger and intrigue is overrepresented in this niche. Yup. I think there are two main reasons: 1. No patent protection. 2. Strange, secretive people. The field attracts strange people while it repels conventional people. That is my impression, but that may be partly my bias. We expect strange people in this field, so we take note of them. There might be just as many strange people in other professions, but we do not look for them. We may not notice them among CPAs, policemen, farmers or government bureaucrats. You did notice them among old school programmers, who tended to be flamboyant. In some groups, strange people hide their eccentricities while in other groups they advertise them. Old school professors used to emphasize odd behavior and strange clothing choices. It was charming. See this scene from the movie IQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7stiKJsGjY He doesn't look like a scientist . . . Now this is a tie, to hold up your pants. - Jed
[Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Dear Friends, Somebody on e-CatWorld says the publication of the second HotCat report is imminent. To avoid retro-prediction, that is an oxymoron, I am publishing now: this; http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/09/rossis-great-report-on-dikw-scale.html Let's wait together for the Report. Where will it be on the scale from bitter disappointment to total enthusiasm? Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Friends, Somebody on e-CatWorld says the publication of the second HotCat report is imminent. The e-CatWorld article is here: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/09/10/international-academic-report-on-cold-fusion-imminent-caution-unconfirmed-anonymous-post/ Why didn't you include this link in your blog article? The blog article says: The LENR community has also uncritically accepted without analysis the Luca Gamberale Report that tries to discredit a very good demo by DGT, logically consistent. The Gamberale Report refers only to tests made by he author in unusual conditions. This statement makes no sense. The Gamberale report describes the demo by DGT. They are one and the same! In my opinion Gamberale successfully discredited this test. Perhaps Gluck disagrees, but in any case we are talking about the *same test*. Gamberale also described other tests done with the this equipment, which pinpointed the cause of the failure. The data taken by DGT and shown in the video proved that the flow rate was not measured correctly and the test was invalid, as McKubre pointed out. Even the people at DGT admitted this. So I do not know why anyone considers this test valid. As far as I know DGT never performed or published a valid test. Anyway their website is gone and I believe they are now completely out of business. Good riddance to them. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
I don’t know Luca Gamberale, so I did some research into his background. I like to state up front that anyone who has more info about him and his level of ethics is welcome to rebutt. I am also a prejudiced supporter of DGT. That said: there are two sides to every story. In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. As a future LENR dealer with human nature what it is, it is natural for these various potential venders’ of LENR reactors to bad mouth each other. Rossi says bad things about DGT and DGT let slip some bad things about Rossi. This new guy is just doing what they all do. As an application developer and reseller of DGT reactors, Gamberale’s former company had no right to know how that R5 reactor works internally. Even with this contractual constraint in place as the history of these events reveal, his former company paid a million dollars in the vain hope to look under the dress of DGT, but DGT was too modest or too smart to show their goods. Did Luca Gamberale want to setup his new company in the same way that Defkalion was started? I believe so. We might never know who stole what from who but Italians are notorious for their lack of business ethics. I am surprised that DGT did not go after Luca Gamberale's NDA violation. I guess they did not want to waste precious money on lawyers. After all, DGT Europe was in the Ni/H reactor application business not in the development of Ni/H technology itself. Luca Gamberale has publically bemoaned that DGT never left him alone with an R5 reactor unattended. Why would that bother this man? Maybe Gamberale wanted to take some nefarious advantage in the dark of night to look inside that R5 reactor, or even better to remove some selected parts for reverse engineering opportunities thereby supplying him with a huge technical head start for his own company that he has subsequently started. It is not in the interest of any company to admit that key parts of their technology are compromised. This degrades the value of their intellectual property in the market place. Ask Rossi about this vis-à-vis DGT. What is known for sure, Defkalion saw that the Rossi reactor worked and that gave them the impetus to form a LENR development company themselves. The takeaway based on DGT's reaction: Rossi’s reactor works and is powerful. The formation of a DGT LENR development company speaks to that certainty. In like manner, if Luca Gamberale believed in what he has said about the R5, he would be a fool to get into the LENR development business himself. Luca Gamberale's Experience CEO, Scientist LD-Brane srls March 2014 – Present (7 months) Milan Area, Italy LD-Brane is a startup operating in two main fields: 1) RD in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). LENR is a most promising powerful source of energy, safe, clean an cheap. It has the potential to supply humanity of heat, electricity and fresh water for the next decades. What is still missing is a full understanding of the physical principles at the basis of the reactions and an efficient and reliable industrial implementation. LD-Brane has a scientific programme for the experimental and theoretical study of LENR and for the realization of prototypes for the production of energy running using LENR. LD-Brane participates to the research program of the most prominent research centers in Italy and Europe, both public and private. 2) development of highly techological cloud solutions: routing and planning optimization for fleets of trucks http://www.speedyplan.com integrated platform for the quality Assurance of Echotomographs for medical use in hospitals Independent Scientific Consultant September 2013 – Present (1 year 1 month) Milano CTO Defkalion Europe January 2013 – September 2013 (9 months) PhD - Scientist Pirelli Labs Public Company; 10,001+ employees; Automotive industry January 2001 – July 2010 (9 years 7 months) Project Leader on experimental physics. study of coherent optical properties of crystals subjected to nuclear magnetic resonance scientist Pirelli Cables Public Company; 10,001+ employees; Automotive industry 2000 – 2001 (1 year) On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Friends, Somebody on e-CatWorld says the publication of the second HotCat report is imminent. The e-CatWorld article is here: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/09/10/international-academic-report-on-cold-fusion-imminent-caution-unconfirmed-anonymous-post/ Why didn't you include this link in your blog article? The blog article says: The LENR community has also uncritically accepted without analysis the Luca Gamberale Report that tries to discredit a very good demo by DGT, logically consistent. The Gamberale Report refers only to tests made by he author in unusual conditions. This statement makes no sense. The
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. As a future LENR dealer with human nature what it is, it is natural for these various potential venders’ of LENR reactors to bad mouth each other. This was not a vendor. This was a joint venture company, half owned by Defkalion. Rossi says bad things about DGT and DGT let slip some bad things about Rossi. This new guy is just doing what they all do. He was saying bad things about his own company! He closed down his own company! That is quite different from saying bad things about another company, and in any case, what he said was true. Even the people at Defkalion admitted the flow rate was wrong. As an application developer and reseller of DGT reactors, Gamberale’s former company had no right to know how that R5 reactor works internally. He did not claim any such right. Even with this contractual constraint in place as the history of these events reveal, his former company paid a million dollars in the vain hope to look under the dress of DGT, but DGT was too modest or too smart to show their goods. DGT prevented him from doing valid testing. That is not the same as stopping him from looking inside the reactor. As soon as he did proper tests problems with the previous tests were revealed. The previous tests were completely invalid. Did Luca Gamberale want to setup his new company in the same way that Defkalion was started? Defkalion set up this company. Luca Gamberale has publically bemoaned that DGT never left him alone with an R5 reactor unattended. Why would that bother this man? For the reasons described in the report. They never allowed a proper test. They never verified the flow rate. As soon as they tried to verify it, the day after the ICCF test, it was obvious the flow rate was wrong. If I had spent $1 million for something that was never tested correctly, and if the company in the joint venture with me prevented tests, not only would I be upset, I would report them to the police. That sounds like fraud. I cannot imagine what else it might be. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. His on-line resume has not been updated or he is lying. But in any event he did go into the LENR development business. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. As a future LENR dealer with human nature what it is, it is natural for these various potential venders’ of LENR reactors to bad mouth each other. This was not a vendor. This was a joint venture company, half owned by Defkalion. Rossi says bad things about DGT and DGT let slip some bad things about Rossi. This new guy is just doing what they all do. He was saying bad things about his own company! He closed down his own company! That is quite different from saying bad things about another company, and in any case, what he said was true. Even the people at Defkalion admitted the flow rate was wrong. As an application developer and reseller of DGT reactors, Gamberale’s former company had no right to know how that R5 reactor works internally. He did not claim any such right. Even with this contractual constraint in place as the history of these events reveal, his former company paid a million dollars in the vain hope to look under the dress of DGT, but DGT was too modest or too smart to show their goods. DGT prevented him from doing valid testing. That is not the same as stopping him from looking inside the reactor. As soon as he did proper tests problems with the previous tests were revealed. The previous tests were completely invalid. Did Luca Gamberale want to setup his new company in the same way that Defkalion was started? Defkalion set up this company. Luca Gamberale has publically bemoaned that DGT never left him alone with an R5 reactor unattended. Why would that bother this man? For the reasons described in the report. They never allowed a proper test. They never verified the flow rate. As soon as they tried to verify it, the day after the ICCF test, it was obvious the flow rate was wrong. If I had spent $1 million for something that was never tested correctly, and if the company in the joint venture with me prevented tests, not only would I be upset, I would report them to the police. That sounds like fraud. I cannot imagine what else it might be. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
*He was saying bad things about his own company! He closed down his own company! That is quite different from saying bad things about another company, and in any case, what he said was true. Even the people at Defkalion admitted the flow rate was wrong.* It would be in Gamberale interest to move DGT's customer base to his own company. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. His on-line resume has not been updated or he is lying. But in any event he did go into the LENR development business. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. As a future LENR dealer with human nature what it is, it is natural for these various potential venders’ of LENR reactors to bad mouth each other. This was not a vendor. This was a joint venture company, half owned by Defkalion. Rossi says bad things about DGT and DGT let slip some bad things about Rossi. This new guy is just doing what they all do. He was saying bad things about his own company! He closed down his own company! That is quite different from saying bad things about another company, and in any case, what he said was true. Even the people at Defkalion admitted the flow rate was wrong. As an application developer and reseller of DGT reactors, Gamberale’s former company had no right to know how that R5 reactor works internally. He did not claim any such right. Even with this contractual constraint in place as the history of these events reveal, his former company paid a million dollars in the vain hope to look under the dress of DGT, but DGT was too modest or too smart to show their goods. DGT prevented him from doing valid testing. That is not the same as stopping him from looking inside the reactor. As soon as he did proper tests problems with the previous tests were revealed. The previous tests were completely invalid. Did Luca Gamberale want to setup his new company in the same way that Defkalion was started? Defkalion set up this company. Luca Gamberale has publically bemoaned that DGT never left him alone with an R5 reactor unattended. Why would that bother this man? For the reasons described in the report. They never allowed a proper test. They never verified the flow rate. As soon as they tried to verify it, the day after the ICCF test, it was obvious the flow rate was wrong. If I had spent $1 million for something that was never tested correctly, and if the company in the joint venture with me prevented tests, not only would I be upset, I would report them to the police. That sounds like fraud. I cannot imagine what else it might be. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: His on-line resume has not been updated or he is lying. Obviously the online resume has not been updated. It shows him working at Defkalion Europe. The company no longer exists. He and the other managers dissolved it and informed the customers that the product does not work. That is not the mark of someone who is lying. It was against his interests to tell people the product does not work. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
*DGT prevented him from doing valid testing. That is not the same as stopping him from looking inside the reactor. As soon as he did proper tests problems with the previous tests were revealed. The previous tests were completely invalid. * You are naïve to believe this man who claims fraud as opposed to incompetence in setting up a demo for the first time. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *He was saying bad things about his own company! He closed down his own company! That is quite different from saying bad things about another company, and in any case, what he said was true. Even the people at Defkalion admitted the flow rate was wrong.* It would be in Gamberale interest to move DGT's customer base to his own company. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. His on-line resume has not been updated or he is lying. But in any event he did go into the LENR development business. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In terms of this DGT Europe guy, I don't trust his account or his take on things because he has gone into the LENR development business himself. No, he has not. He says he is now out of the cold fusion business. As a future LENR dealer with human nature what it is, it is natural for these various potential venders’ of LENR reactors to bad mouth each other. This was not a vendor. This was a joint venture company, half owned by Defkalion. Rossi says bad things about DGT and DGT let slip some bad things about Rossi. This new guy is just doing what they all do. He was saying bad things about his own company! He closed down his own company! That is quite different from saying bad things about another company, and in any case, what he said was true. Even the people at Defkalion admitted the flow rate was wrong. As an application developer and reseller of DGT reactors, Gamberale’s former company had no right to know how that R5 reactor works internally. He did not claim any such right. Even with this contractual constraint in place as the history of these events reveal, his former company paid a million dollars in the vain hope to look under the dress of DGT, but DGT was too modest or too smart to show their goods. DGT prevented him from doing valid testing. That is not the same as stopping him from looking inside the reactor. As soon as he did proper tests problems with the previous tests were revealed. The previous tests were completely invalid. Did Luca Gamberale want to setup his new company in the same way that Defkalion was started? Defkalion set up this company. Luca Gamberale has publically bemoaned that DGT never left him alone with an R5 reactor unattended. Why would that bother this man? For the reasons described in the report. They never allowed a proper test. They never verified the flow rate. As soon as they tried to verify it, the day after the ICCF test, it was obvious the flow rate was wrong. If I had spent $1 million for something that was never tested correctly, and if the company in the joint venture with me prevented tests, not only would I be upset, I would report them to the police. That sounds like fraud. I cannot imagine what else it might be. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It would be in Gamberale interest to move DGT's customer base to his own company. He DOES NOT HAVE a company! His company was Defkalion Europe. He dissolved it, losing a $1 million investment. He said in the interview that he is no longer working on cold fusion. What are you talking about?!? What company? If you know of a company, tell us what it is. Stop making claims about nonexistent companies. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Can't you read... Luca Gamberale's Experience CEO, Scientist LD-Brane srls March 2014 – Present (7 months) Milan Area, Italy LD-Brane is a startup operating in two main fields: 1) RD in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). LENR is a most promising powerful source of energy, safe, clean an cheap. It has the potential to supply humanity of heat, electricity and fresh water for the next decades. What is still missing is a full understanding of the physical principles at the basis of the reactions and an efficient and reliable industrial implementation. LD-Brane has a scientific programme for the experimental and theoretical study of LENR and for the realization of prototypes for the production of energy running using LENR. LD-Brane participates to the research program of the most prominent research centers in Italy and Europe, both public and private. What does CEO mean? What does 7 months mean? On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It would be in Gamberale interest to move DGT's customer base to his own company. He DOES NOT HAVE a company! His company was Defkalion Europe. He dissolved it, losing a $1 million investment. He said in the interview that he is no longer working on cold fusion. What are you talking about?!? What company? If you know of a company, tell us what it is. Stop making claims about nonexistent companies. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
7 months counting from March is September, This month!!! On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Can't you read... Luca Gamberale's Experience CEO, Scientist LD-Brane srls March 2014 – Present (7 months) Milan Area, Italy LD-Brane is a startup operating in two main fields: 1) RD in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). LENR is a most promising powerful source of energy, safe, clean an cheap. It has the potential to supply humanity of heat, electricity and fresh water for the next decades. What is still missing is a full understanding of the physical principles at the basis of the reactions and an efficient and reliable industrial implementation. LD-Brane has a scientific programme for the experimental and theoretical study of LENR and for the realization of prototypes for the production of energy running using LENR. LD-Brane participates to the research program of the most prominent research centers in Italy and Europe, both public and private. What does CEO mean? What does 7 months mean? On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It would be in Gamberale interest to move DGT's customer base to his own company. He DOES NOT HAVE a company! His company was Defkalion Europe. He dissolved it, losing a $1 million investment. He said in the interview that he is no longer working on cold fusion. What are you talking about?!? What company? If you know of a company, tell us what it is. Stop making claims about nonexistent companies. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: You are naïve to believe this man who claims fraud as opposed to incompetence in setting up a demo for the first time. He did not set up the demo! The people from Defkalion did. When he tried to change it, they came in and removed all of his equipment, changing it back: During the setup of the laboratory in Milan various improvements were introduced by the DE technicians and scientists concerning the calorimetry measurement. In particular a method independent of the flow rate measurement has been developed based on the heating of a large amount of water contained in a large tank and circulated through a pump in a closed circuit. This measure is independent of the measurement of the flow through the coil and it would remove any doubt about the heat measurement. DGT has not allowed DE to use such measurement in none of the tests of their technology. As a further improvement we added a second flowmeter upstream of the water system in order to verify the behavior of the main flowmeter during the measurement of the excess power but also in this case the added flowmeter was readily removed by the DGT technicians forbidding us to make any verification. (I think readily means quickly.) No one at Defkalion has disputed this report. I agree he was incompetent for not doing a proper evaluation, and for not insisting that the flow rate be tested. The experimental setup was incompetent. But it was not his incompetence. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Can't you read... Luca Gamberale's Experience CEO, Scientist LD-Brane srls March 2014 – Present (7 months) Milan Area, Italy LD-Brane is a startup operating in two main fields: 1) RD in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). . . . Ah, you are right. It has changed since I last read it. In any case, his actions at Defkalion Europe were unimpeachable. He did what the law demands, and what business ethics demand. He warned the customers that the product does not work. I do not see how anyone can dispute the fact that the product did not work. The tests were irrefutable. No one at Defkalion has questioned or refuted his report. On the contrary, the President of the company admitted he was correct. The spokesperson (or whatever he was) Hadjichristos blustered about the report, but he never refuted it. He is now off the radar. I do not know what became of him. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
A test plan is not to be changed by the customer without negotiations. It is not within the prerogatives of DGT technicians to change a the test plan. The CTO must approve all changes. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: You are naïve to believe this man who claims fraud as opposed to incompetence in setting up a demo for the first time. He did not set up the demo! The people from Defkalion did. When he tried to change it, they came in and removed all of his equipment, changing it back: During the setup of the laboratory in Milan various improvements were introduced by the DE technicians and scientists concerning the calorimetry measurement. In particular a method independent of the flow rate measurement has been developed based on the heating of a large amount of water contained in a large tank and circulated through a pump in a closed circuit. This measure is independent of the measurement of the flow through the coil and it would remove any doubt about the heat measurement. DGT has not allowed DE to use such measurement in none of the tests of their technology. As a further improvement we added a second flowmeter upstream of the water system in order to verify the behavior of the main flowmeter during the measurement of the excess power but also in this case the added flowmeter was readily removed by the DGT technicians forbidding us to make any verification. (I think readily means quickly.) No one at Defkalion has disputed this report. I agree he was incompetent for not doing a proper evaluation, and for not insisting that the flow rate be tested. The experimental setup was incompetent. But it was not his incompetence. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
*No one at Defkalion has questioned or refuted his report.* This demonstrates the strength of DGT as a company. To let the slanders of minor characters roll off their backs only shows that DGT will emerge as the leader in the field of LENR. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Can't you read... Luca Gamberale's Experience CEO, Scientist LD-Brane srls March 2014 – Present (7 months) Milan Area, Italy LD-Brane is a startup operating in two main fields: 1) RD in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). . . . Ah, you are right. It has changed since I last read it. In any case, his actions at Defkalion Europe were unimpeachable. He did what the law demands, and what business ethics demand. He warned the customers that the product does not work. I do not see how anyone can dispute the fact that the product did not work. The tests were irrefutable. No one at Defkalion has questioned or refuted his report. On the contrary, the President of the company admitted he was correct. The spokesperson (or whatever he was) Hadjichristos blustered about the report, but he never refuted it. He is now off the radar. I do not know what became of him. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Conmen are always the smartest persons in the room. And I notices that your reading comprehension goes down considerably when you don't want to believe what the printed words plainly say. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Can't you read... Luca Gamberale's Experience CEO, Scientist LD-Brane srls March 2014 – Present (7 months) Milan Area, Italy LD-Brane is a startup operating in two main fields: 1) RD in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). . . . Ah, you are right. It has changed since I last read it. In any case, his actions at Defkalion Europe were unimpeachable. He did what the law demands, and what business ethics demand. He warned the customers that the product does not work. I do not see how anyone can dispute the fact that the product did not work. The tests were irrefutable. No one at Defkalion has questioned or refuted his report. On the contrary, the President of the company admitted he was correct. The spokesperson (or whatever he was) Hadjichristos blustered about the report, but he never refuted it. He is now off the radar. I do not know what became of him. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *No one at Defkalion has questioned or refuted his report.* This demonstrates the strength of DGT as a company. To let the slanders of minor characters roll off their backs only shows that DGT will emerge as the leader in the field of LENR. Yo, Axil: Reality check please! Come in please! This is not a minor character. This person his colleagues filed for bankruptcy, destroying a joint venture half owned by Defkalion. This cost Defkalion millions of dollars. They filed for bankruptcy for the reasons described in this report. That is not a minor incident. I have heard it led to the bankruptcy of Defkalion itself. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Conmen are always the smartest persons in the room. The ones I have met struck me as rather stupid. If Gamberale is a con-man, why hasn't anyone at Defkalion pointed out where he is lying? Why did they agree with his assertions about the flow rate? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
I did not know that. This is all the more reason for Luca Gamberale to enter into this campaign of slander...to put a strong competitor out of business. THis increases my admiration of Luca Gamberale as a con man. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *No one at Defkalion has questioned or refuted his report.* This demonstrates the strength of DGT as a company. To let the slanders of minor characters roll off their backs only shows that DGT will emerge as the leader in the field of LENR. Yo, Axil: Reality check please! Come in please! This is not a minor character. This person his colleagues filed for bankruptcy, destroying a joint venture half owned by Defkalion. This cost Defkalion millions of dollars. They filed for bankruptcy for the reasons described in this report. That is not a minor incident. I have heard it led to the bankruptcy of Defkalion itself. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: A test plan is not to be changed by the customer without negotiations. This is not a customer. It is a joint venture company half owned by Defkalion, half owned by a European company, Mose srl. A joint venture is nothing like a customer. There is a world of difference. If a customer buys a product which does not work, it is the responsibility of the vendor. If a joint venture is trying to develop product which does not work, it is their legal responsibility to either make it work, or inform the customers and withdraw the product. It is not within the prerogatives of DGT technicians to change a the test plan. The CTO must approve all changes. The report says they changed it. No one at Defkalion has disputed this report. If this were inaccurate don't you think they would say so by now? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
The really good con men go undetected...like Luca Gamberale. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Conmen are always the smartest persons in the room. The ones I have met struck me as rather stupid. If Gamberale is a con-man, why hasn't anyone at Defkalion pointed out where he is lying? Why did they agree with his assertions about the flow rate? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: THis increases my admiration of Luca Gamberale as a con man. Unless you have some reason to believe he is a con man I suggest you stop saying that here. Please tell us what evidence you have. It is not a good idea to go around making unfounded accusations on the Internet. That is particularly unwelcome in this forum. And before you say anything, I have pointed to evidence that Defkalion may have been engaged in fraud. The Gamberale report is prima facie evidence for that. Fortunately, fraud was avoided because DE acted responsibly. On the commercial side DE immediately stopped/froze all negotiations with both Italian and foreign companies to protect their clients. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The really good con men go undetected...like Luca Gamberale. In this case let me assume undetected means you have absolutely no reason to believe he is a con man, and no evidence for that. His malfeasance is invisible. Your accusation cannot be falsified. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Because of you powerful position here on this forum, I will abide by this new rule. Please forgive my transgressions,,,I had no idea that the virtuousness of Luca Gamberale was so highly regarded here on this forum. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: THis increases my admiration of Luca Gamberale as a con man. Unless you have some reason to believe he is a con man I suggest you stop saying that here. Please tell us what evidence you have. It is not a good idea to go around making unfounded accusations on the Internet. That is particularly unwelcome in this forum. And before you say anything, I have pointed to evidence that Defkalion may have been engaged in fraud. The Gamberale report is prima facie evidence for that. Fortunately, fraud was avoided because DE acted responsibly. On the commercial side DE immediately stopped/froze all negotiations with both Italian and foreign companies to protect their clients. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: This was the demo for ICCF 18. The purpose of that demo was to show the peers of DGT that the product produced excess heat. Are you telling me that you view of that demo showed no excess heat? Yes, absolutely. It showed no excess heat at all. The problems were pointed out by McKubre and others soon after the demo. The flow rate was measured wrong. Hadjichristos soon agreed with that. The President of Defkalion later acknowledged it. I and others reported these problems here. It was clear that the demo was invalid. Much later, Gamberale published his report which describes the problems with flow rate in greater detail: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf It also describes what I consider malfeasance in the management of the company and the way the demo was set up and conducted. If you do not consider that malfeasance, you can ignore that part and read only the technical discussion of the flow rate measurement error. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Do not count me in. There are obvious mistakes on the report, which invalidates it. Axil, I think you are smart enough to notice them. I made a list of it somewhere. But I have better things to do now. 2014-09-11 18:04 GMT-03:00 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com: Because of you powerful position here on this forum, I will abide by this new rule. Please forgive my transgressions,,,I had no idea that the virtuousness of Luca Gamberale was so highly regarded here on this forum. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Because of you powerful position here on this forum, I will abide by this new rule. Please forgive my transgressions,,,I had no idea that the virtuousness of Luca Gamberale was so highly regarded here on this forum. His virtues or lack of virtue have nothing to do with it. This is not about him. It is against the rules here to post slanderous, unfounded accusations of fraud against anyone, not matter how suspicious that person may be. If you have some reason to think that Gamberale is a con man, please tell us. That is on-topic and very important. If you have no evidence, then please do not make unfounded accusations of criminal behavior. There are other people in cold fusion who have shady backgrounds. There is plenty of evidence that Rossi has engaged in suspicious behavior. He went to prison! He was exonerated. I guess he was innocent. I do not know the details. Anyone would be forgiven for thinking he is a shady person. Discussing his prison sentence is on-topic here. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Do not count me in. There are obvious mistakes on the report, which invalidates it. Please list the major mistakes. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Look for yourself your or just look at past messages. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Look for yourself your or just look at past messages. Why don't you point out the most convincing example? I have repeated myself here a number of times for the benefit of the audience. If you could take a moment to scroll the archive and search for keywords, it would save us the trouble. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:predictive analysis of the coming Rossi- independent Report
Why can't free energy companies be like other companies? I feel that the amount of cloak and dagger and intrigue is overrepresented in this niche. Eric
