Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
In reply to Willis Jenkin's message of Sat, 5 Aug 2006 14:55:44 -0700: Hi Willis, [snip] Robin! On your response to my posting on some in the field using pulsed DC and still obtaining gas production (H2, O2), below 1.2V, please be assured that it was not measured with a DC volt meter, more like a $25K US Tek Scope and followed with a standard formula of Vrms=Sqrt(y/x)* Vp, where Vp is the pulse max V, y is the pulse width and x is leading edge to leading edge. Does this mean that the 1.2 V you were referring to was Vrms or peak? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Willis Jenkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Teflon pan may not be the best of containers to try your test in, I might suggest a liter beaker or some HDPE container. What I have observed is that a passive metal container is part of the circuit, if connected or not. Over the years many a SS container has suffered microscopic pin holes when being used in this way. Well, well, well. You were absolutely right. When I finished the experiment today and stored the water, I noticed some very small bubbles forming between the teflon and the aluminum. Doesn't look like it totally erupted, however; but, I think I'll seek out an HDPE container for stage two. Also, the adhesive gave out on one pair of plates. Further research indicates that 3M does not recommend it on SS. Go figure. I'm trying to decide whether to put a rubber band around it, tie a string around it, or just skip the 24 VDC test until I can rebuild the cell. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
In reply to Willis Jenkin's message of Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:34:36 -0700: Hi, [snip] I must say that when you do not see gas being evolved that you are working closer to strickly ohmic conduction versus ionic. Also you will not be able to stop gas once you exceed as Robin stated ~ 1.2V. Although some in the field have evolved gas below this level with the proper supply (pulsed DC). If a simple voltmeter on the DC scale is being used to measure the voltage, then it's not likely to be registering the peak voltage in a pulsed setup, so while it might appear that lower pulsed voltages result in gas formation, it's possible that the gas is actually only being produced during the actual peak of the pulse, where it exceeds ~ 1.2 V. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
RE: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
Terry wrote: We will start with his oldest vehicle which he can no longer depreciate. He knows the risks. The rewards far outweigh his risk. Even a 10% improvement pays back in a little over a year. I mainly want to see if there's any difference due to charging. Terry/Jones (no Python jokes, please ;-), I know that I caused some confusion earlier by not explicitly mentioning the effects of multiple 'neutral' plates, but now I'm confused... I thought that you were both looking at some basic experimental work, to investigate the possibility of 100% gas-free ICE running (the putative 'waterfuel'). Is this not the case? If not, and you're (Terry) looking to create a hydroxy booster setup, then there's some well established techniques/cell designs that you could use - see the Y! hydroxy group. It would be handy to know which way you're both going, so that any observations that I or others might offer will be pertinent to your aims. Cheers, Patrick
RE: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
I went over our 12 plate (~ 1.0 cm spacing) with my cohort/lackey with a starting voltage of about 9 volts at 1.6 ma on the rechargeable power unit there were small bubbles on the water-plastic interface near the anode plate too. The rechargeable dc supply was brought up to ~ 13 vdc and the current maxed at less than 2.0 ma for a day or so until baking soda was added to increase it to about 19 ma. Adding borax the next day increased the current to almost an ampere. Fred Jones Beene wrote. Terry, Gee, I don't see how you can get 50 mA with 12 VDC with neat water. I'm only getting 1.1 mA with 9 VDC. Larger surface area? The cell Patrick is talking about has only two or three neutral plates - you have 16 total - 14 neutral, correct? Your plate-to-plate voltage drop in tiny. The neutral plates would divide the voltage drop, which you want to be under about 1.2 per plate so that electrolysis does NOT take place, but close to that level so that the max current can flow w/o gas forming. With 16 plates you can probably use 20 volts. Do you have a wall-wart near that level? Some of the HP large block transformers that they used to sell with their printers are 24 volts ... What about using two wall-warts in series? you have so many free wires you could use the plates one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the second leads to plates 5 and 11, or some such series arrangement. or else try to find a block with more ripple or else what about - one AC and one DC? sounds weird ... you could use the DC on the end plates:one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the AC on plates 5 and 11, or some such arrangement to get the net current WAY up from what it is now Jones
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With 16 plates you can probably use 20 volts. Do you have a wall-wart near that level? Some of the HP large block transformers that they used to sell with their printers are 24 volts ... What about using two wall-warts in series? you have so many free wires you could use the plates one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the second leads to plates 5 and 11, or some such series arrangement. Okay. I have a hefty 24 V xfmr and two twelve volt batteries. I'll finish out the week with the present config and put the sample in storage. (Masonic jar? eg) For sample two, I'll kick it up a notch to 24V with distilled water. I've found a volunteer to test the final hydrobooster in one of his fleet vehicles which gets 17.1 mpg. He said if I can get a 30% boost in his mileage, I can do all his fleet for $600 each. His drivers go 30,000 mi/yr. His fuel cost is $5200 per vehicle per year; so, his savings would be $1,560 per year. I figure my material cost would be around $100 per unit. All the parts (and day labor) are available at Home Despot. :-) Terry You want franchises with that?
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Willis Jenkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What ever this may be worth, otherwise sorry for taking your time. No no!! This is just the information we need. I love it when a lurker joins in. I'm getting bored talking to the same old farts. ;-) Do you have a picture of your setup? If you can' t post it, send it to my email address and I'll post it for you. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoa... that might be a bit hasty. I think you will see a 30% boost if the device is properly built and sized, etc. but there are so many unanswered questions about long term corrosion, etc. John Steck mentioned this briefly. If the valves go prematurely, then all the savings and more are quickly eaten up. ... at least get a big product liability insurance policy !! Geeze, you sound like an attorney. ;-) We will start with his oldest vehicle which he can no longer depreciate. He knows the risks. The rewards far outweigh his risk. Even a 10% improvement pays back in a little over a year. I mainly want to see if there's any difference due to charging. Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
WJ's setup is here: http://geocities.com/terry1094/wtrchg.jpg Willis, How long have you been charging in this photo? Is there an electrolyte? If so, what kind (NaCl, KOH, etc)? Voltage and current? TIA Terry On 8/2/06, Willis Jenkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a simple unit, 500ml distilled (farm grade), 12mm carbon cathode, two 2mm SS rod anodes. Input voltage 4.6V at 6.4mA. Doesn't show much but I will send it anyway. Thanks...
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry Willis already answered your questions in the same post ... must be a hot afternoon in Hot-lanta... g Yeah, and since Iana.org took over the Inet, nothing has been right. However, I have some bad news. I tested experimental and control water and got no BAM effect. Then, thinking about homemade icecream and Grimer, (what a combination!), I took some (5 ml) charged water and added a few grains of NaCl. Well, it fuggin' chimed (with a 30 Hz buzz) and exploded. So did the (5 ml sample) control. Sorry. Terry PS Ain't changin' my procedure, however.
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still hopeful that Terry can make some unsalted BAM water ... It's still chargin'! BTW, Blanton distilleries make some premium bourbon: http://www.blantonsbourbon.com But don't snipe at that: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/25/highway.shootings.ap/index.html (He looks like my cousin Jimmy.) Terry
