Re: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
After sockin' it to SocGen, it seems he has become quite the bonhomme among socialists: http://www.jeromekerviel.com/lestory.html or should I say anti-capitalists. Terry On Jan 28, 2008 6:26 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lawrence, What you say is quite true. If one is Sunni, then the USA is the terrorist. It is easy to get carried away, and to waver out of precise focus on the details and semantics of this situation. That is, we must accept that 'guilt by association' is wrong, wrong, wrong ... and should never be tolerated. We cannot let ourselves associate terrorism and Islam as the general rule. In many of their eyes, we are the international terrorists. However, even though most Muslims are peace-loving, decent people, there is a most vocal and politically active segment, which vehemently hates the USA, Israel, and the West, and - let's also admit to this - they hate us for very good reason! We are the originators of this huge mess - no doubt about that. Even so, and even if our own recent actions were wrong, and historically going back in time 800 years: terribly wrong, and even if most of the injustice starts with us, we cannot simply overlook the backlash, nor fail to be prepared for the current degree of justifiable hatred coming from that part of the world, just because we generated the initial problems. There is no good solution to this problem. Worst of all -- We created the problem to start with, aggravated it with support for the State of Israel, and probably deserve some degree of punishment for that; but will never allow compensation or even an admission of guilt. Consequently the best that we can hope to do is to back-away from this region altogether, let Israel go her own way, turn our foreign policy into limited isolationisms for this region, and be vigilant. Most of all... let's not make the situation any worse than it already is (by bombing Iran); and yet to keep our own military from over-reacting as they WILL DO, we need to avoid the kind of massive payback, economic or otherwise, WHICH WE DESERVE. Did I mention: there is no good solution to this problem !?! Jones Lawrence de Bivort wrote: It would be quite a mistake to assume that terrorists are likely to be Muslim, or that Muslims are likely to be terrorists. It is true that this is what many Americans believe, and that they have been urged on in this misimpression by some who wish Muslims poorly, so let us be doubly vigilant to avoid these cognitive traps. The Internet is a purveyor of much information -- and much misinformation and disinformation. Cheers, Lawrence -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism? Apparently, even though the Bin Laden option trades went flat 6 months ago, that huge (paper) loss did not deter a planned second-chance effort to recoup the initial loss, and create havoc in the Western economies. From a Blogger: http://11amdesign.com/wordpress/?p=285 The Federal Reserve's biggest emergency interest rate cut in more than two decades is sparking debate as to why they slashed interest rates... the first cut between regularly scheduled meetings since September 2001. Possible Rationale (still trying to verify the details below): Well, following hot on the footsteps of the SocGen announcement is the newly discovered warning -- from other sources than SocGen -- that a massive level of put option contracts had been placed recently. This time it was done differently than last Fall, so as to avoid early detection, as happened 6 months ago. These options are betting that the US stock markets will crash by March 21st. Reportedly, these are not NYSE but instead NASDAQ-100 index options placed through () contracts. However, crashing the smaller exchange would likely have a domino effect on the NYSE. This seems to be, for all purposes, somewhat of a renewed continuation of the so-called 'Bin Laden' trades of last Fall. Iran may be involved this time. There are SocGen links to Iran. However, apparently the Fed/SEC is wise to this scheme, and will step in again if necessary. (we hope) This is being called attempted financial terrorism. How they got a well-known bank involved in the first place, is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to find out if Kerviel has Arab (or Iranian) contacts, or has recently converted to Islam. Currently, the March (out of the money) put contacts (100 shares each) is 645,250 and outweigh the March (in the money) call contacts by 559,343 contacts, well over half a million contract or 56 billion shares worth ... signaling a huge imbalance, which was estimated to be able to crash the NASDAQ market by 30% to 40% from it current level, unless a deep-pocket
Re: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
Terry Blanton wrote: On Jan 28, 2008 6:26 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lawrence, What you say is quite true. However, even though most Muslims are peace-loving, decent people, there is a most vocal and politically active segment, which vehemently hates the USA, Israel, and the West, and - let's also admit to this - they hate us for very good reason! The militant Moslems interpret the Qur'an literally. They also reject the Holy Torah, since the Jews corrupted it. Consequently they don't recognize the Jews title to the land between the two rivers,the Nile and Euphrates. We have allowed perversion like porn, they're right about that. G-d, not to be confused with Allah, allows people to be free, which includes the right to be immoral. We are the originators of this huge mess - no doubt about that. There is no good solution to this problem. Yes, there is. G-d is going to straighten things out. Worst of all -- We created the problem to start with, aggravated it with support for the State of Israel, and probably deserve some degree of punishment for that; It's just the opposite, we're being punished for forcing Israel to divide The Land. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
RE: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
It would be quite a mistake to assume that terrorists are likely to be Muslim, or that Muslims are likely to be terrorists. It is true that this is what many Americans believe, and that they have been urged on in this misimpression by some who wish Muslims poorly, so let us be doubly vigilant to avoid these cognitive traps. The Internet is a purveyor of much information -- and much misinformation and disinformation. Cheers, Lawrence -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism? Apparently, even though the Bin Laden option trades went flat 6 months ago, that huge (paper) loss did not deter a planned second-chance effort to recoup the initial loss, and create havoc in the Western economies. From a Blogger: http://11amdesign.com/wordpress/?p=285 The Federal Reserve's biggest emergency interest rate cut in more than two decades is sparking debate as to why they slashed interest rates... the first cut between regularly scheduled meetings since September 2001. Possible Rationale (still trying to verify the details below): Well, following hot on the footsteps of the SocGen announcement is the newly discovered warning -- from other sources than SocGen -- that a massive level of put option contracts had been placed recently. This time it was done differently than last Fall, so as to avoid early detection, as happened 6 months ago. These options are betting that the US stock markets will crash by March 21st. Reportedly, these are not NYSE but instead NASDAQ-100 index options placed through () contracts. However, crashing the smaller exchange would likely have a domino effect on the NYSE. This seems to be, for all purposes, somewhat of a renewed continuation of the so-called 'Bin Laden' trades of last Fall. Iran may be involved this time. There are SocGen links to Iran. However, apparently the Fed/SEC is wise to this scheme, and will step in again if necessary. (we hope) This is being called attempted financial terrorism. How they got a well-known bank involved in the first place, is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to find out if Kerviel has Arab (or Iranian) contacts, or has recently converted to Islam. Currently, the March (out of the money) put contacts (100 shares each) is 645,250 and outweigh the March (in the money) call contacts by 559,343 contacts, well over half a million contract or 56 billion shares worth ... signaling a huge imbalance, which was estimated to be able to crash the NASDAQ market by 30% to 40% from it current level, unless a deep-pocket rescue effort steps-in fist. How many of these came through SocGen is not known. This may very well represent (possibly) part of an expected profit that the Kerviel conspiracy would have reaped, had not they not been caught ahead of time. The havoc that followed would be difficult to estimate. This story is far from over, and until March 21 when these put options expire, the economies of the USA and Europe are still at great risk. The good news is that if the US SEC decides to meet the risk head-on, that kind of intervention will finally bankrupt the Bin Laden family empire, and that of participating Arab enemies, who must have been partners in this kind of massively coordinated financial terrorism. Jones
Re: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
It will be interesting to find out if Kerviel has Arab (or Iranian) contacts, or has recently converted to Islam. Surely it is far more likely that Kerviel has Israeli contacts or has recently converted to Judaism. After all, it is to the advantage of Israel and its devoted Jewish supporters around the world, that the USA be hurt by what appears to be Arab and Iranian terrorists, thus sucking Bush into yet another war, this one against Iran. It is to the great disadvantage of Iran that it should provoke in this way an already-provoked giant. The only moral question for the Jews who are, presumably, behind this, is whether or not it is good for Israel and the Jewish people. The answer in the case of this 'economic terrorism' is obvious: it is good for them, as long as it can be blamed, however vaguely, on the Arabs and Iranians. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
Rhong Dhong wrote: After all, it is to the advantage of Israel and its devoted Jewish supporters around the world, that the USA be hurt by what appears to be Arab and Iranian terrorists, thus sucking Bush into yet another war, this one against Iran. Comments like this are senseless anti-Semetic garbage, and they should not be allowed here. But, anyway, for the record: No, it is DEFINITELY not to the advantage of Israel. Nothing about 9/11 or the wars in Afghanistan or Iraqi war have benefited Israel. On the contrary, they have vastly increased the danger to Israel, and made long-term peace and the survival of Israel even more in doubt than they were before. They have also increased the danger and misery faced by the Palestinians. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
Rhong Dhong wrote: After all, it is to the advantage of Israel and its devoted Jewish supporters around the world, that the USA be hurt by what appears to be Arab and Iranian terrorists, thus sucking Bush into yet another war, this one against Iran. Comments like this are senseless anti-Semetic garbage, and they should not be allowed here. But, anyway, for the record: To me it's common sense. If it is also anti-semitic, well, that's tough, but that's how the cookie crumbles. I don't like political garbage like this, but if my comments are not allowed, then the ones I responded to should not be allowed either. No, it is DEFINITELY not to the advantage of Israel. It's hard to see how you can say that, since the US has been busy fighting wars for Israel's benefit, and has destroyed her enemy Saddam Hussein and his army. Next on the list, if the Israelis and their devoted Jewish supporters have their way, is, of course, Iran. Then, probably, it will be Syria's turn. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism?
Lawrence, What you say is quite true. If one is Sunni, then the USA is the terrorist. It is easy to get carried away, and to waver out of precise focus on the details and semantics of this situation. That is, we must accept that 'guilt by association' is wrong, wrong, wrong ... and should never be tolerated. We cannot let ourselves associate terrorism and Islam as the general rule. In many of their eyes, we are the international terrorists. However, even though most Muslims are peace-loving, decent people, there is a most vocal and politically active segment, which vehemently hates the USA, Israel, and the West, and - let's also admit to this - they hate us for very good reason! We are the originators of this huge mess - no doubt about that. Even so, and even if our own recent actions were wrong, and historically going back in time 800 years: terribly wrong, and even if most of the injustice starts with us, we cannot simply overlook the backlash, nor fail to be prepared for the current degree of justifiable hatred coming from that part of the world, just because we generated the initial problems. There is no good solution to this problem. Worst of all -- We created the problem to start with, aggravated it with support for the State of Israel, and probably deserve some degree of punishment for that; but will never allow compensation or even an admission of guilt. Consequently the best that we can hope to do is to back-away from this region altogether, let Israel go her own way, turn our foreign policy into limited isolationisms for this region, and be vigilant. Most of all... let's not make the situation any worse than it already is (by bombing Iran); and yet to keep our own military from over-reacting as they WILL DO, we need to avoid the kind of massive payback, economic or otherwise, WHICH WE DESERVE. Did I mention: there is no good solution to this problem !?! Jones Lawrence de Bivort wrote: It would be quite a mistake to assume that terrorists are likely to be Muslim, or that Muslims are likely to be terrorists. It is true that this is what many Americans believe, and that they have been urged on in this misimpression by some who wish Muslims poorly, so let us be doubly vigilant to avoid these cognitive traps. The Internet is a purveyor of much information -- and much misinformation and disinformation. Cheers, Lawrence -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:OT: Financial Terrorism? Apparently, even though the Bin Laden option trades went flat 6 months ago, that huge (paper) loss did not deter a planned second-chance effort to recoup the initial loss, and create havoc in the Western economies. From a Blogger: http://11amdesign.com/wordpress/?p=285 The Federal Reserve's biggest emergency interest rate cut in more than two decades is sparking debate as to why they slashed interest rates... the first cut between regularly scheduled meetings since September 2001. Possible Rationale (still trying to verify the details below): Well, following hot on the footsteps of the SocGen announcement is the newly discovered warning -- from other sources than SocGen -- that a massive level of put option contracts had been placed recently. This time it was done differently than last Fall, so as to avoid early detection, as happened 6 months ago. These options are betting that the US stock markets will crash by March 21st. Reportedly, these are not NYSE but instead NASDAQ-100 index options placed through () contracts. However, crashing the smaller exchange would likely have a domino effect on the NYSE. This seems to be, for all purposes, somewhat of a renewed continuation of the so-called 'Bin Laden' trades of last Fall. Iran may be involved this time. There are SocGen links to Iran. However, apparently the Fed/SEC is wise to this scheme, and will step in again if necessary. (we hope) This is being called attempted financial terrorism. How they got a well-known bank involved in the first place, is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to find out if Kerviel has Arab (or Iranian) contacts, or has recently converted to Islam. Currently, the March (out of the money) put contacts (100 shares each) is 645,250 and outweigh the March (in the money) call contacts by 559,343 contacts, well over half a million contract or 56 billion shares worth ... signaling a huge imbalance, which was estimated to be able to crash the NASDAQ market by 30% to 40% from it current level, unless a deep-pocket rescue effort steps-in fist. How many of these came through SocGen is not known. This may very well represent (possibly) part of an expected profit that the Kerviel conspiracy would have reaped, had not they not been caught ahead of time. The havoc that followed would be difficult to estimate. This story
