Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:13:25 -0700: Hi, [snip] On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The gas is contained within a cavity that is dimensioned and tuned to the laser light wavelength, just like an ordinary gas laser. AFAIK the protons are accelerated along the axis of the laser. My thought was that the light would go back and forth within the cavity, resulting in a net force of zero on the protons. In that case, would it only be once the light emerges from an opening on one side of the cavity and exited that a positive force could be exerted on a body? Eric You are probably correct. If so, then it's easily compensated for by putting two devices next to one another, facing in opposite directions. Then let the laser light exit the resonant cavity before entering the space where the protons Thorium are. The fission products from one reactor then excite the lasing atoms of the other. They feed one another so to speak. source --- target target --- source Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
Thorium has been a pipe dream for 50 years. Back then, they also envisioned Cars powered by Uranium. The two are so similar that the only difference is access. Thorium fission offers little significant advantage over uranium unless you have lots of the ore - and one huge disadvantage - the natural element contains no fissile isotope. This is fine if you have access to fissile material from elsewhere. Otherwise, with thorium you have a heavy metal door-stop. Back about 3-4 years, Lewis Larsen Co got into the thorium transmutation act. Apparently there are some bacteria which can transmute thorium (as well as Uranium) They call it fissionless but it is unclear if much energy can be derived. The assumption is that energy can be derived, but AFAIK - they dropped the suggestion as unrealistic. http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/thoriumseed-lenr-networkfigslattice-e nergydec-7-2010-6177745 If you are looking for good bets - IMO look elsewhere than thorium for energy - at least if you are not in Asia. They like Thorium in India and China because they have lots of the ore, and importantly, they have the fissile material from their A bomb programs - with which to start the reaction (it can also be derived from the waste of uranium fission). but make no mistake, Thorium is almost completely useless without a fissile material. and had Fukushima been thorium fueled, the result could have been worse - not better. From: Blaze http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-grams-one- million-miles/ http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-grams-one-m illion-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/%22A http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
The recent advances in accelerator technologyhttp://www6.slac.stanford.edu/news/2013-09-27-accelerator-on-a-chip.aspxwill open a lot of interesting possibilities. Controlled thorium fission is one. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-g rams-one-million-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
You're lumping all thorium technologies together when they are radically different from each other. Please qualify your statements or I'll presume you are ignorant about thorium. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Thorium has been a pipe dream for 50 years. Back then, they also envisioned Cars powered by Uranium. The two are so similar that the only difference is access. ** ** Thorium fission offers little significant advantage over uranium unless you have lots of the ore - and one huge disadvantage – the natural element contains no fissile isotope. This is fine if you have access to fissile material from elsewhere. Otherwise, with thorium you have a heavy metal door-stop. ** ** Back about 3-4 years, Lewis Larsen Co got into the thorium transmutation act. Apparently there are some bacteria which can transmute thorium (as well as Uranium) ** ** They call it “fissionless” but it is unclear if much energy can be derived. The assumption is that energy can be derived, but AFAIK – they dropped the suggestion as unrealistic. ** ** http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/thoriumseed-lenr-networkfigslattice-energydec-7-2010-6177745 ** ** If you are looking for good bets – IMO look elsewhere than thorium for energy – at least if you are not in Asia. ** ** They like Thorium in India and China because they have lots of the ore, and importantly, they have the fissile material from their A bomb programs - with which to start the reaction (it can also be derived from the waste of uranium fission)… but make no mistake, Thorium is almost completely useless without a fissile material… and had Fukushima been thorium fueled, the result could have been worse – not better. ** ** *From:* Blaze ** ** http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-grams-one-million-miles/ ** ** In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. ** ** In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. ** ** Regards, ** ** Robin van Spaandonk ** ** http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html ** **
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to James Bowery's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:40:35 -0500: Hi, Yes, that may be an option. Also, AFAIK, it's possible to accelerate particles in a plasma with a laser. Probably based on the same or similar principle. However any such scheme doesn't appear to take into account the neutrons released by fissioning the thorium. I suspect that the neutrons would make a fission based power source unacceptable in car, reason why it was dropped back in the 50's. Furthermore there is also the small matter of dealing with the radiation from the daughter products. The recent advances in accelerator technologyhttp://www6.slac.stanford.edu/news/2013-09-27-accelerator-on-a-chip.aspxwill open a lot of interesting possibilities. Controlled thorium fission is one. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-g rams-one-million-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to mix...@bigpond.com's message of Wed, 16 Oct 2013 08:36:54 +1100: Hi, My notion of how it might work:- The fast particles from the thorium fission process could excite a gas causing it to lase. The laser light would then accelerate protons in the same gas which would fission more thorium. This would be entirely self contained, and self powering. Of course you would need to be able to turn the laser on and off at will. BTW, 8 gm of Thorium would provide either 25 kW for 7200 hours or 250 kW for 720 hours, assuming 100% conversion efficiency. [snip] In reply to James Bowery's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:40:35 -0500: Hi, Yes, that may be an option. Also, AFAIK, it's possible to accelerate particles in a plasma with a laser. Probably based on the same or similar principle. However any such scheme doesn't appear to take into account the neutrons released by fissioning the thorium. I suspect that the neutrons would make a fission based power source unacceptable in car, reason why it was dropped back in the 50's. Furthermore there is also the small matter of dealing with the radiation from the daughter products. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:38 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The fast particles from the thorium fission process could excite a gas causing it to lase. The laser light would then accelerate protons in the same gas which would fission more thorium. If the protons are within the lasing medium, how does it accelerate them in a specific direction? Eric
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:43:02 -0700: Hi, [snip] On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:38 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The fast particles from the thorium fission process could excite a gas causing it to lase. The laser light would then accelerate protons in the same gas which would fission more thorium. If the protons are within the lasing medium, how does it accelerate them in a specific direction? Eric The gas is contained within a cavity that is dimensioned and tuned to the laser light wavelength, just like an ordinary gas laser. AFAIK the protons are accelerated along the axis of the laser. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The gas is contained within a cavity that is dimensioned and tuned to the laser light wavelength, just like an ordinary gas laser. AFAIK the protons are accelerated along the axis of the laser. My thought was that the light would go back and forth within the cavity, resulting in a net force of zero on the protons. In that case, would it only be once the light emerges from an opening on one side of the cavity and exited that a positive force could be exerted on a body? Eric
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-g rams-one-million-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:17:07 -0400: Hi, [snip] http://terralab.tripod.com/id14.html Quote from http://terralab.tripod.com/atmospheric_water_generator.html LARGE-SCALE WATER PRECIPITATION INDUSTRIAL SYSTEMS FROM $287,000.00 for 35,000 Gallons a day; To $8,890,000.00 for 150,000 Gallons of water a Day. Note that four 35000 gal/day units cost only about 1/8 of a 15 gal/day unit, but deliver the about same amount of water. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
For some technical background, this is a small excerpt from the description of the Phoenix 2000 MaxFelaser system found on the Website. Thorium as a laser fuel is a natural Alpha beta emitter and lases very easily. What makes the Phoenix 2000 MaxFelaser systems differs from “reactors” or other lasers is that it is an “EMC” Accelerator driven non-critical reaction stimulating thorium as a Alfa-beta emitter. In nuclear physics, an energy amplifier is a novel type of nuclear power reactor, a subcritical reactor, in which an EMC energetic field is used to stimulate a reaction, which in turn releases enough HEAT energy to flash a working fluid to high temp and presser driving a high speed turbine-generator set. This is the basic working principles of the MaxFelasers. The EMC particle accelerator in the MaxFelaser is an electro magnetic induction coil operating at high frequency to propel the Thorium fuel Matrix to high energy levels and to contain them. The MaxFelaser uses this quantum mechanical properties of an external magnetic field to excite the electrons, the electrons (particles) collide with other particles and are diffracted as light. While an electron is undergoing acceleration, it can absorb or radiate energy in the form of HEAT and photons. It can be annihilated by a collision with a positron, the electron's antiparticle, or an electron–positron pair can be produced from gamma ray photons with a combined energy at least equal to the energy at rest of the particles. (An ordinary CRT television set is a simple form of accelerator.) The EMC is a hybrid combination linear and circular accelerator, leaving an energy profit for power generation. The concept has more recently been referred to as an accelerator-driven system ADS-EMC MaxFelaser based on Thorium presents a solution to the global energy crisis and could help ease political tension globally. Laser power generators are being developed and the US Air Forse is testing this generator. At this time, the 2.5 MW High speed generators have been built and are being tested by the United States Air Force USAF. The 2.5 MW unit is 1/10th the size of conventional generators at only 28 x 21 inches and 360 lbs.; a number of other sizes, 5Kw, 30Kw. 90Kw, 200Kw, 1.2 MW, have also been built and tested under a number of development programs; and larger units are being designed to meet the demands of the commercial power industry. Look at the hardware at: http://terralab.tripod.com/id14.html I am interested in how various alternative energy initiatives might hoodwink inverters. Opinions: Can a non profit consortium supported by the United States Department of the Interior front a SCAM? Also, the turbogenerator pictured here might be a fit for the Ni-H power systems. On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:24 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
