Re: ZPE, and UFOs-do we realy need to say OT
Grimer sez: ... > When he came back to his barrack he found a very different > atmosphere. He never found out exactly what happened but > what ever it was had scared these tough British Marines, on > the eve of leaving to fight in Afghanistan, absolutely > shitless. So much so that the squaddie in the next bunk > couldn't get to sleep and asked John if he could borrow his > rosary. > > Frank Grimer > Whoever was jerking their chains from the other side were probably laughing their heads off too. I don't think the art of practical jokes die when we die. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
Re: ZPE, and UFOs-do we realy need to say OT
At 12:55 pm 20/12/2005 +1100, Wesley Bruce wrote: > >>> >>>Now what? >>> >>>Harry >>> >>> >> >>"Now" we have "fallen angels masquerading as aliens" as Jeff says. >> >>If you "accept the existence of diabolical possession", >>then you have accepted the existence of fallen angels >>who not only can possess people but can also appear in both >>human and animal form. I can't see your problem, Harry. 8-) >> >>Frank >> >> >> > It should also be noted that demon possession is not as > debilitating or as spectacular as the depiction in the > Movie "Exorcist." Most possessed people today are making > good money in businesses and on the new age fair circuit. Perhaps the following account of meddling with demons will interest Vortexians. One of my grandsons's, John Vianney Grimer, joined the Royal Marines. Now the Marines are, with the exception of the SAS, the toughest outfit in the British Forces - not that the rest are wimps. As my BRS colleague, Dr.Majumdar once remarked - One thing the British are superbly good at is fighting. That's how they managed to dominate the biggest empire ever seen with only handfuls of men. Well, after the troop had their passing out parade and received their coveted green berets, some of his mates decided it would be fun to have a ouija board session for a bit of a lark. John told them not to be so stupid. He said they had no idea what they were letting themselves in for. Of course being full of their own toughness and fighting spirit, they laughed him to scorn. John refused to take any part in the proceeding and left for the canteen. When he came back to his barrack he found a very different atmosphere. He never found out exactly what happened but what ever it was had scared these tough British Marines, on the eve of leaving to fight in Afghanistan, absolutely shitless. So much so that the squaddie in the next bunk couldn't get to sleep and asked John if he could borrow his rosary. Frank Grimer
Re: ZPE, and UFOs-do we realy need to say OT
> From: Wesley Bruce ... > We should also point out that Christian theology teaches that > the demons are limited hugely by God. They rebelled and their > powered are limited as a penalty. As Gary Bates notes in his > book evangelical Christians seem Immune from alien abduction. > We also teach that God protects us from demonic tampering in > science but not para science. If as some atheists teach we > Christians are just gullible or suggestible then we should be > just as vulnerable to "abduction" as any other. Atheists by > the same argument should be immune. They aren't. I don't > blame every thing on demons, that is true superstition, but in > any careful analysis it is wise to consider and ask if there > are forces or processes, even beings beyond the material; > have I considered them and controlled for them? Can I control > for them? Whether you believe in demons, angles, powerful > aliens, or the possibility of self delusion your need to ask > 'is this real'. Consider the possibility that there may exist some form of non-interference standard in place. As such, it may be considered ethically inappropriate to reveal their existence to individuals whose religion firmly dictates a paradigm where revealing their existence can only be interpreted as Fallen Angels or Demons. The shock alone of revealing themselves would be highly disruptive to the individual. There's also evidence to support the premise that Christians, just like any group of individuals encounter these beings with the same level of randomnes. Believing that one is protected by God may be a moot point. I can point you to a book: "UFO... contact from RETICULUM" ISBN: 0-937850-06-3 By Lt. Col. Wendelle C. Stevens (Ret.) Here's part of the blurb on the back flap: * * * * * * * William J. Herman was born in August of 1952 in Newport, Rhode Island, and came to Charleston with his Navy father in 1959. He attended Air Force ROTC upon his graduation from High School and later married his ROTC friend's sister. Bill did not believe in UFOs before his own experiences began in 1977 because he thought the Air Force had satisfactorily explained the phenomena. He would have scoffed at anyone who professed any serious belief in the ridiculous subject. He thought the conclusions of the Condon Committee answered all the questions, and he gave the subject no more thought, until 1977. His world and all of his beliefs were severely shaken by the events that unfolded around him from then to now. He still doesn't know how to deal with the new truths. He is concerned about the apathy given to subject and the fact that nobody knows and nobody wants to know what is really going on. He feels duty bound to make someone in authority understand. * * * * * * * The book is probably difficult to locate these days, though a good book researcher or store specializing in UFOlogy might be of some assistance. > It should also be noted that demon possession is not as > debilitating or as spectacular as the depiction in the Movie > "Exorcist." Most possessed people today are making good > money in businesses and on the new age fair circuit. Personally, I find this to be an unfortunate and sad conclusion to make as it goes about painting its broad and vague condemnation of an extremely diverse society. It's not very smart either. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com
Re: ZPE, and UFOs-do we realy need to say OT
Now what? Harry "Now" we have "fallen angels masquerading as aliens" as Jeff says. If you "accept the existence of diabolical possession", then you have accepted the existence of fallen angels who not only can possess people but can also appear in both human and animal form. I can't see your problem, Harry. 8-) Frank We should also point out that Christian theology teaches that the demons are limited hugely by God. They rebelled and their powered are limited as a penalty. As Gary Bates notes in his book evangelical Christians seem Immune from alien abduction. We also teach that God protects us from demonic tampering in science but not para science. If as some atheists teach we Christians are just gullible or suggestible then we should be just as vulnerable to "abduction" as any other. Atheists by the same argument should be immune. They aren't. I don't blame every thing on demons, that is true superstition, but in any careful analysis it is wise to consider and ask if there are forces or processes, even beings beyond the material; have I considered them and controlled for them? Can I control for them? Whether you believe in demons, angles, powerful aliens, or the possibility of self delusion your need to ask 'is this real'. It should also be noted that demon possession is not as debilitating or as spectacular as the depiction in the Movie "Exorcist." Most possessed people today are making good money in businesses and on the new age fair circuit.
Re: ZPE, and UFOs
revtec wrote: I think it highly unlikely that we have in this world aliens coexisting with angels. We either have aliens masquerading as angels, or fallen angels masquerading as aliens. I personally suspect the latter. Then, there is also option three for those who prefer it, that both angels and aliens are imaginary. It seems that one of these three choices must be true. Is there somebody out there able to pull enough facts together to prove the truth in this matter? Jeff I think Gary Bates has put it together quite nicely. There is an obvious lack of good data. This implies that if their aliens or angles they don't like us to know the full truth. That in itself implies that they are not friendly. The greatest challenge in any field of science or pseudoscience is to know what all the assumptions are and be able to discern their validity. We all attempt this in vortex. We're so diverse because we see the differences in our assumptions. Many out there in academia or the established Paradigm fail to do so and lock themselves into a framework of untested assumptions and false conclusions. Many of them either can't articulate their own assumptions or assume that all share their world view. A Heart seeking the truth asks first if it is ready to ask the question. Note: There is an explanation for some UFO sightings that is still to be explored. Scientists studying bats in north America recently discovered that the eat tons of moths per night. Radar confirmed that there were swarms of moths estimated in the kilotons. If these huge swarms are slightly bioluminescent or reflective then they would appear as balls of light that move, dissolve and divide in ways that a material craft can't. Insects pixles in a three dimentional dance. They could also appear to move abnormally fast if a diffuse swam over a large area converged on a fast moving stimuli like a light change or aircrafts sonic boom. The swarm would converge and then diverge but adjacent sections might lag creating the illusion of a fast moving object in the air. Both bioluminescents and glint are weak light sources but with a million insects in a small relative volume the brightness can become significant. No one that I know of has explored this theory. The related idea that UFO's are just an unknown species of fauna, electrostatic aerial plankton, is also a more radical possiblity.
