Re: [Vo]:Gain from wires and magnets?

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 07/17/2016 12:00 PM, Bob Higgins wrote:
In such cases, it is really useful to simulate the system with a model 
that is entirely without unknown physics and see how the model 
compares with observation.  If it predicts the same phenomena, you can 
be pretty sure that the outcome was simply outside your expectation.  
SPICE is a wonderful first-principles tool for a lot of this with 
wires and magnets.


Indeed.  Seriously excellent advice.

Surprisingly, we've actually had people in the past attempting to find 
ways to make OU magmos and related gadgets /by using SPICE simulations/, 
which is kind of unreasonable given that conservation of energy is built 
into the physics models used by SPICE.




On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Jones Beene > wrote:



You may remember the story of the overunity LED,



The OU LED must be /*heated*/ to operate at OU and then it converts some 
thermal energy to electrical energy.  In short, it's no more exotic than 
a thermocouple, which is doing exactly the same thing.


Both obey the laws of thermodynamics, which is to say you can't just 
suck power out of it and have it get cold (and then use it as a "cold 
sink" to make even more energy).


On the other hand, if you're thinking of Stiffler's supposedly OU LEDs 
about which huge amounts of ink was wasted in this forum a few years 
back, he was just a scammer.  He had a signal generator running, which 
was capacitively coupled to the circuit providing the power.  It was an 
amusing demonstration of high frequency parasitics, nothing more.

[Vo]:Gain from wires and magnets?

[Jones Beene]

As a general observation, it could be said that many alternative energy
practitioners gravitate to LENR once they determine from thousands of null
results that anomalous gain is unlikely with any configuration of magnets,
magnetic gating, resonant circuits and so on. But the near misses, and the
2nd Law, have not stopped a few clever builders from trying to find the
self-sustaining electrical circuit. No one has ever explained the apparent
gain seen in the circuits of the late Arthur Manelas or Floyd Sweet. 

Here are some scope shots of interest from a recent alternative conference.

http://overunity.com/16724/graham-gundersons-energy-conference-presentation-
most-impressive-and-mysterious/dlattach/attach/158787/image//

Graham is a builder who is in a league by himself. As for a clue about what
he could be doing - a regular poster on vortex over the years is Harvey
Norris, yet few can follow his progress either. Electro-wizards live in
different world where there is little common language with the rest of us,
the uncharged resistors, so to speak. Try deciphering this bit of free
flowing text, if you don't believe me:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/14992141501/in/dateposted-public/

Basically, the reason I am bringing-up a slight coincidence, aside from slow
news day, is that Graham's scope shots look a bit like the warped 3-phase of
Harvey where phase angles are split and recombined. There has always been
some level of mysticism associated with 3-phase, since it possess
"directionality" on its own. Wiki has an entry for the "charge pump" which
is of interest, since it is one of those high efficiency tricks, like
leakage inductance in high reactance transformers, which on occasion have
been reported to go slightly overunity (1.05). even in Silicon Valley. 

You may remember the story of the overunity LED, but perhaps didn't realize
that part of the gain may come from the charge pump driver which can
increase voltage with less than the expected hit to current. As for a
breakthrough in circuits - such as true self-resonance, well. that feat
could actually be possible, if not already achieved. However, the COP is
low, barely over one, and the true energy source is not magic, but
"ambient". (which may be more than ambient heat). yet, what many places need
this summer is cheap AC (air conditioning, not alternating current)

Re: [Vo]:Gain from wires and magnets?

[Bob Higgins]

I was once working with a technician who had hooked up an L-C circuit
(without a transformer) and saw AC voltage gain.  He was convinced that he
had an overunity invention.  The voltage gain was outside of his
expectation.  However, it was pointed out by someone with more experience
that the voltage gain was entirely anticipated and there was no power
gain.  Expectation all comes down to breadth of experience.  Magnetic
circuits will frequently fool our expectation.  In such cases, it is really
useful to simulate the system with a model that is entirely without unknown
physics and see how the model compares with observation.  If it predicts
the same phenomena, you can be pretty sure that the outcome was simply
outside your expectation.  SPICE is a wonderful first-principles tool for a
lot of this with wires and magnets.  But it takes experience with SPICE to
implement a proper model.  Fortunately, there are free SPICE simulators
with good user interfaces to make it easy.

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> As a general observation, it could be said that many alternative energy
> practitioners gravitate to LENR once they determine from thousands of null
> results that anomalous gain is unlikely with any configuration of magnets,
> magnetic gating, resonant circuits and so on. But the near misses, and
> the 2nd Law, have not stopped a few clever builders from trying to find
> the self-sustaining electrical circuit. No one has ever explained the
> apparent gain seen in the circuits of the late Arthur Manelas or Floyd
> Sweet.
>
> Here are some scope shots of interest from a recent alternative conference.
>
>
> *http://overunity.com/16724/graham-gundersons-energy-conference-presentation-most-impressive-and-mysterious/dlattach/attach/158787/image//*
> 
>
> Graham is a builder who is in a league by himself. As for a clue about
> what he could be doing - a regular poster on vortex over the years is Harvey
> Norris, yet few can follow his progress either. Electro-wizards live in
> different world where there is little common language with the rest of
> us, the uncharged resistors, so to speak. Try deciphering this bit of
> free flowing text, if you don’t believe me:
>
> *https://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/14992141501/in/dateposted-public/*
> 
>
> Basically, the reason I am bringing-up a slight coincidence, aside from
> slow news day, is that Graham’s scope shots look a bit like the warped
> 3-phase of Harvey where phase angles are split and recombined. There has
> always been some level of mysticism associated with 3-phase, since it
> possess “directionality” on its own. Wiki has an entry for the “charge
> pump” which is of interest, since it is one of those high efficiency
> tricks, like leakage inductance in high reactance transformers, which on
> occasion have been reported to go slightly overunity (1.05)… even in
> Silicon Valley.
>
> You may remember the story of the overunity LED, but perhaps didn’t
> realize that part of the gain may come from the charge pump driver which
> can increase voltage with less than the expected hit to current. As for a
> breakthrough in circuits – such as true self-resonance, well… that feat
> could actually be possible, if not already achieved. However, the COP is
> low, barely over one, and the true energy source is not magic, but
> “ambient”… (which may be more than ambient heat)… yet, what many places
> need this summer is cheap AC (air conditioning, not alternating current)
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Gain from wires and magnets?

[Eric Walker]

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

No one has ever explained the apparent gain seen in the circuits of the
> late Arthur Manelas ...


I think you're referring to the device of Manelas's that ended up in Brian
Ahern's hands.  Ahern's description sounds to me like some variant of LENR
that produces current.  (If I recall, Ahern's own suggestion is that the
effect is the result of some kind of nanomagnetism.)

By the way, I remember seeing a video of some kind of spoon submerged in
water that when electricity was run through it boiled the water much faster
than the presenter expected. Does this description ring a bell for anyone?

Eric

[Vo]: The life and death of Eugene Mallove

[a.ashfield]

A feature article in foreign policy.com (!)
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/07/the-coldest-case-cold-fusion-eugene-mallove-mit-infinite-energy/

Jed Rothwell gets a mention

RE: [Vo]:Gain from wires and magnets?

[Jones Beene]

Bob Higgins wrote:

In such cases, it is really useful to simulate the system with a model that is 
entirely without unknown physics and see how the model compares with 
observation.  If it predicts the same phenomena, you can be pretty sure that 
the outcome was simply outside your expectation.  SPICE is a wonderful 
first-principles tool for a lot of this with wires and magnets.

 

Yes, it is a great tool, but the previously unknown parameter or exotic 
material is the problem. Plus– SPICE, or any simulation, can be fooled by an 
incorrect assumption – as here. 

http://overunity.com/7403/this-ltspice-simulation-model-will-blow-your-mind/#.V4u7yDVgs9M

SPICE works only on the known, in fact only on the well-known - and is 
specifically poor at modeling leakage inductance… which is a factor in EE that 
normally is not a good thing. Perhaps, like lemons, it can be made into 
lemonade (if that is what Graham is doing) but not modeled. Driving a specialty 
magnetic core past saturation presents problems for any model when other cores 
are in spatial proximity.

The one-and-only acceptable recourse here, as always, is to “close the loop” in 
some way. If a circuit self-resonates for hundreds of hours with only 
microfarads of capacitance, and especially if substantial cooling of a magnetic 
core is seen during this time – you can throw the SPICE model out the window, 
until of course it is modified… but that always happens after the fact.

Do you have theoretical problems (aside from natural suspicions) with the 
presentation of a self-powering circuit, driving a computer fan over a cold 
core and thus cooling a space, such that the net thermal balance is increased 
in entropy? 

[Vo]:LENR- Fact of Nature, human creation, fire resistant Joan d'Arc

[Peter Gluck]

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/07/jul-17-2016-lenr-is-facts-of-nature-and.html
 For this silent Sunday
Yours,
Peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Gain from wires and magnets?

[John Berry]

Floyd Sweets device worked, but it is aetheric as well as electromagnetic.

It has accounts of antigravity, freezing wires, and once when overloaded it
made a vortex sound...

Many of the more credible coils and magnets free energy devices have other
anomalous effects besides mere overunity.

And what of the unexpected electrical energy in Rossi's work?
Or the mysterious lack of radiation in LENR?

The problem is that if you replicate an electromagnetic free energy device,
it won't work because it is a hybrid of electromagnetic and aetheric
engineering, and the aetheric part is dependent on details that are too
readily lost.

I can easily make this kind of energy and I now know how to basically
transition the aetheric so that it melds with electromagnetic energy.

The aetheric energy is also related to Kundalini, Chi etc.., but there are
many variations of this energy.

A number of people on this list have felt an energy from images I have
made, you I have found light can effect the underlying aether, suitable
enough for the majority of random people to feel something.
Including in situations where zero possibility of the placebo effect exist.

John



On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:02 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Bob Higgins wrote:
>
> In such cases, it is really useful to simulate the system with a model
> that is entirely without unknown physics and see how the model compares
> with observation.  If it predicts the same phenomena, you can be pretty
> sure that the outcome was simply outside your expectation.  SPICE is a
> wonderful first-principles tool for a lot of this with wires and magnets.
>
>
>
> Yes, it is a great tool, but the previously unknown parameter or exotic
> material is the problem. Plus– SPICE, or any simulation, can be fooled by
> an incorrect assumption – as here.
>
>
> http://overunity.com/7403/this-ltspice-simulation-model-will-blow-your-mind/#.V4u7yDVgs9M
>
> SPICE works only on the known, in fact only on the well-known - and is
> specifically poor at modeling leakage inductance… which is a factor in EE
> that normally is not a good thing. Perhaps, like lemons, it can be made
> into lemonade (if that is what Graham is doing) but not modeled. Driving a
> specialty magnetic core past saturation presents problems for any model
> when other cores are in spatial proximity.
>
> The one-and-only acceptable recourse here, as always, is to “close the
> loop” in some way. If a circuit self-resonates for hundreds of hours with
> only microfarads of capacitance, and especially if substantial cooling of a
> magnetic core is seen during this time – you can throw the SPICE model out
> the window, until of course it is modified… but that always happens after
> the fact.
>
> Do you have theoretical problems (aside from natural suspicions) with the
> presentation of a self-powering circuit, driving a computer fan over a cold
> core and thus cooling a space, such that the net thermal balance is
> increased in entropy?
>

Re: [Vo]: The life and death of Eugene Mallove

[Jed Rothwell]

That's terribly depressing. Mostly accurate as far as I know.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]: The life and death of Eugene Mallove

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

Thanks for the link.

On 07/17/2016 06:00 PM, a.ashfield wrote:

A feature article in foreign policy.com (!)
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/07/the-coldest-case-cold-fusion-eugene-mallove-mit-infinite-energy/ 



Jed Rothwell gets a mention

.

Re: [Vo]: The life and death of Eugene Mallove

[Eric Walker]

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:00 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

A feature article in foreign policy.com (!)
>
> http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/07/the-coldest-case-cold-fusion-eugene-mallove-mit-infinite-energy/


The author of the article is a professor of journalism at Princeton.

Eric

Re: [Vo]: The life and death of Eugene Mallove

[Peter Gluck]

*this was published in EGO OUT on July 8 but ignored*




*3) A great paper about Gene MalloveThe Coldest CaseEugene Mallove gave up
everything to pursue the holy grail of nuclear energy. Did it cost him his
life? by David
Kushnerhttp://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/07/the-coldest-case-cold-fusion-eugene-mallove-mit-infinite-energy/
*

peter

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:00 PM, a.ashfield 
> wrote:
>
> A feature article in foreign policy.com (!)
>>
>> http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/07/the-coldest-case-cold-fusion-eugene-mallove-mit-infinite-energy/
>
>
> The author of the article is a professor of journalism at Princeton.
>
> Eric
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com