Re: [vos-d] [www-vrml] RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?

[Bruce Lehmann]

VOS, according to their thread, is working on a VRML/X3D Importer

 

  _  

From: chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: www-vrml; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; VOS Discussion;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [www-vrml] RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?

 

Lauren,

you were clear enough - I was just reinterpreting a bit because I don't
think I have seen 
such a thing for x3d. But there are some potential candidates as a starting
point, such as vos, vrspace or deepmatrix, to 
perhaps link with an X3D browser. I just don't know enough about them
to comment on their specific strengths/weaknesses.

chris

On 15/03/07, Lauren Gauthier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Granted. And Flux Player/Studio are probably as close to X3D
game engine's rendering and authoring tools as it gets right
now. Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. What I am
looking for is an actual complete or partial open source 
client/server implementation that can work with X3D.

Cheers,
Lauren


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: owner-www-  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Parisi
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:33 PM
> To: 'Hatt, Ronald (Ron) (LT)'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'www-
> vrml'
> Subject: [www-vrml] RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?
>
> X3D *is* a game engine; it's just not a very good one yet.
>
> Add physics and particles (already in the Revision 1 
> plan), and some form of
> spatial partitioning, and *then* it's a real game engine.
>
> Tony
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-x3d-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Hatt, Ronald (Ron) (LT)
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:12 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; www-vrml
> > Subject: RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?
> >
> > Doesn't the OS Delta3D game engine already support X3D? 
> > It is something to check into.
> >
> > Ron Hatt
> > Naval Postgraduate School
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-x3d-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lauren Gauthier
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:29 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'www-vrml'
> > Subject: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > I'd like to run this here to get an idea of the general
> > consensus about game engines for X3D.
> >
> > I feel that sooner or later, we're going to need some
> kind 
> > of X3D game engine if we ever hope for visibility around
> > the likes of MS XNA and plenty others.
> >
> > I'd like to get feedback with regard to open source
> X3D/VRML 
> > client/server projects if any, that have been undertaken
> in
> > the past that are not Java based.
> >
> > Also, which amidst the current crop of general open
> source 
> > game engines that you know of, would be considered good
> > candidates for X3D?
> >
> > In essence, that could be servers or server components
> that
> > can do more than multi-user avatar and chat. I am not 
> too
> > concerned about the authoring side of things, but the
> server
> > side. Specially something that works well with
> databases.
> >
> > If there are no such things then I'd welcome suggestions 
> or
> > links to libraries that could be used as building
> blocks,
> > preferably written in C++, Perl or other languages that
> lend
> > themselves well to Web development, while of course 
> being
> > able to utilize X3D.
> >
> > Finally, are there currently supported X3D players in
> the
> > works (other than Contact versions) which have a server
> side 
> > counterpart or otherwise built-in networking?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lauren
> >
> >
> >_  ___  __   __ ___  __   ___   ___   ___
> >   /__  / / _ \/  | / // _ \/_  __/  / _ \ / _ \ / _ 
> \
> >  _/_  / / // /   / /||/ //  __/ / // ___//   _// //
> /
> > // //   /_/ |__/ \___/ /_//_/   /_/\_\ \___/
> > __ 
> >  * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * *
> >   * * Virtual Reality - Application Programming  * *
> >* 3D Net Productions  www.3dnetproductions.com
 *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> -
> > for list subscription/unsubscription,
> > go to http://www.web3d.org/cgi-
> > bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html
> >
> >
> > 
> -
> > for list subscription/unsubscription,
> > go to http://www.web3d.org/cgi-
> > bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> for list subscription/unsubscription,
> go to http://www.web3d.org/cgi-
> bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release
> Date: 3/12/2007 7:19 PM
>

---

Re: [vos-d] [www-vrml] RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?

[chris]

Lauren,

you were clear enough - I was just reinterpreting a bit because I don't
think I have seen
such a thing for x3d. But there are some potential candidates as a starting
point, such as vos, vrspace or deepmatrix, to
perhaps link with an X3D browser. I just don't know enough about them
to comment on their specific strengths/weaknesses.

chris

On 15/03/07, Lauren Gauthier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Granted. And Flux Player/Studio are probably as close to X3D
game engine's rendering and authoring tools as it gets right
now. Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. What I am
looking for is an actual complete or partial open source
client/server implementation that can work with X3D.

Cheers,
Lauren


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-www-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Parisi
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:33 PM
> To: 'Hatt, Ronald (Ron) (LT)'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'www-
> vrml'
> Subject: [www-vrml] RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?
>
> X3D *is* a game engine; it's just not a very good one yet.
>
> Add physics and particles (already in the Revision 1
> plan), and some form of
> spatial partitioning, and *then* it's a real game engine.
>
> Tony
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-x3d-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Hatt, Ronald (Ron) (LT)
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:12 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; www-vrml
> > Subject: RE: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?
> >
> > Doesn't the OS Delta3D game engine already support X3D?
> > It is something to check into.
> >
> > Ron Hatt
> > Naval Postgraduate School
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-x3d-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lauren Gauthier
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:29 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'www-vrml'
> > Subject: [x3d-public] X3D Game Engine?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello list,
> >
> > I'd like to run this here to get an idea of the general
> > consensus about game engines for X3D.
> >
> > I feel that sooner or later, we're going to need some
> kind
> > of X3D game engine if we ever hope for visibility around
> > the likes of MS XNA and plenty others.
> >
> > I'd like to get feedback with regard to open source
> X3D/VRML
> > client/server projects if any, that have been undertaken
> in
> > the past that are not Java based.
> >
> > Also, which amidst the current crop of general open
> source
> > game engines that you know of, would be considered good
> > candidates for X3D?
> >
> > In essence, that could be servers or server components
> that
> > can do more than multi-user avatar and chat. I am not
> too
> > concerned about the authoring side of things, but the
> server
> > side. Specially something that works well with
> databases.
> >
> > If there are no such things then I'd welcome suggestions
> or
> > links to libraries that could be used as building
> blocks,
> > preferably written in C++, Perl or other languages that
> lend
> > themselves well to Web development, while of course
> being
> > able to utilize X3D.
> >
> > Finally, are there currently supported X3D players in
> the
> > works (other than Contact versions) which have a server
> side
> > counterpart or otherwise built-in networking?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lauren
> >
> >
> >_  ___  __   __ ___  __   ___   ___   ___
> >   /__  / / _ \/  | / // _ \/_  __/  / _ \ / _ \ / _
> \
> >  _/_  / / // /   / /||/ //  __/ / // ___//   _// //
> /
> > // //   /_/ |__/ \___/ /_//_/   /_/\_\ \___/
> > __
> >  * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * *
> >   * * Virtual Reality - Application Programming  * *
> >* 3D Net Productions  www.3dnetproductions.com *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> -
> > for list subscription/unsubscription,
> > go to http://www.web3d.org/cgi-
> > bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html
> >
> >
> > 
> -
> > for list subscription/unsubscription,
> > go to http://www.web3d.org/cgi-
> > bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> for list subscription/unsubscription,
> go to http://www.web3d.org/cgi-
> bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release
> Date: 3/12/2007 7:19 PM
>

-
for list subscription/unsubscription,
go to
http://www.web3d.org/cgi-bin/public_list_signup/lwgate/listsavail.html





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Re: [vos-d] Metaobject Doc

[Peter Amstutz]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 08:01:47AM -0700, Ken Taylor wrote:

> Ah, I sort of remember a post about that... but I thought it was simply for
> cross-language code generation. But if it's meant to also include
> human-readable documentation, and information for vobject structure
> validation, then that would be very sweet :)

Right, the original motivating factor was to have an interface language 
that will make it easy to define cross-network and cross-language calls.  
That goal has expanded to include most other vobject aspects including 
children, embedded properties, namespaces, inheritance, and of course 
human-readable documentation.  I'm also working towards having the 
vobject type document defined in itself, allowing reflection of the 
whole system.

I've been doing a lot of reading, and I believe it would be accurate to 
say that the s5 design is evolving into an Erlang-meets-Smalltalk 
pattern: massive microthreading, highly reflexive dynamic runtime, but 
implemented as language-neutral kernel rather than a comprehensive 
programming environment.

-- 
[   Peter Amstutz  ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
[Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet]
[ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ]
[ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey:  pgpkeys.mit.edu  18C21DF7 ]



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Re: [vos-d] Question about Messages

[Peter Amstutz]

A normal message is between two concrete vobjects.  An update message is 
sent from a concrete vobject to update its replicas.  For example, a 
property sending out a change notification.  It's not a "normal" 
message, because the actual C++ object the message is delivered to is 
not a concrete Vobject, it's a replica.

Another way of putting it, say we have two object A and B, and with 
remote replica B'.

Normal messaging looks like this:

A -> B' -> (network) -> B

Now B wants to update its replica.  If it's just a normal message, the 
routing would have to look like this:

B -> (network) -> B' -> (network) -> B

But obviously that makes no sense, so we mark it as an update message, 
so the routing looks like:

B -> (network) -> B' -> (callback) -> A

Which is what we intended.


On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 08:28:03AM -0700, Ken Taylor wrote:
> I'm sure if I spend more time tracing the code i could figure this out
> myself, but I'm in a lazy mood...
> 
> What's the difference in the way Messages and UpdateMessages are handled by
> the VOS library? Why can't everything be treated as a plain Message?
> 
> -Ken
> 
> 
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-- 
[   Peter Amstutz  ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
[Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet]
[ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ]
[ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey:  pgpkeys.mit.edu  18C21DF7 ]



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[vos-d] Question about Messages

[Ken Taylor]

I'm sure if I spend more time tracing the code i could figure this out
myself, but I'm in a lazy mood...

What's the difference in the way Messages and UpdateMessages are handled by
the VOS library? Why can't everything be treated as a plain Message?

-Ken


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Re: [vos-d] Metaobject Doc

[Ken Taylor]

Reed Hedges wrote:

> Ken Taylor wrote:
> >
> > Next I had an idea that it would be useful to document MetaObjects
in a
> > way that the VOS API doesn't cover. Specifically, things visible by the
> > "external" world accessing a VOS site -- not necessarily things internal
to
> > the VOS library
>
> OK, cool.  We have needed that kind of thing for a long time.  We had a
> simple way of doing this called OTD (object type definition) a while
> ago, but then all the code change and all the OTDs went out of date :)
>
> One thing that I think Peter's going to include as a key part of S5 is
> the ability to generate code from an IDL/OTD, so we can also generate
> documentation from that.  We'll include your MetaObjectDocumentation
> ideas, or maybe do both.

Ah, I sort of remember a post about that... but I thought it was simply for
cross-language code generation. But if it's meant to also include
human-readable documentation, and information for vobject structure
validation, then that would be very sweet :)

>
> > I've only done one for now (Object3D), with an idea of how the format
might
> > look. Feel free to improve it, and add more! Brave is he/she who
documents
> > property:property ;)
>
> Property's actually really simple:
>
> Message methods (and replies/updates sent):
> * read (-> update)
> * write (-> update??)
> * replace  (-> update, replace-update [for errors])
> * get-datatype (-> datatype-update)
> * get-length (-> length-update)
> * start-listening (-> start-listening-reply, update)
> * stop-listening
>
> No child objects defined (but they might be used in certain applications).
>
> Then there's the access control policies.
>
> Reed
>
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Re: [vos-d] Metaobject Doc

[Reed Hedges]

Reed Hedges wrote:
> OK, cool.  We have needed that kind of thing for a long time.  We had a
> simple way of doing this called OTD (object type definition) a while
> ago, but then all the code change and all the OTDs went out of date :)

http://interreality.org/wiki/ObjectTypeDefinitions
http://interreality.org/wiki/ArchaicOtdFormat

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Re: [vos-d] Metaobject Doc

[Reed Hedges]

Ken Taylor wrote:
> 
> Next I had an idea that it would be useful to document MetaObjects in a
> way that the VOS API doesn't cover. Specifically, things visible by the
> "external" world accessing a VOS site -- not necessarily things internal to
> the VOS library 

OK, cool.  We have needed that kind of thing for a long time.  We had a
simple way of doing this called OTD (object type definition) a while
ago, but then all the code change and all the OTDs went out of date :)

One thing that I think Peter's going to include as a key part of S5 is
the ability to generate code from an IDL/OTD, so we can also generate
documentation from that.  We'll include your MetaObjectDocumentation
ideas, or maybe do both.

> I've only done one for now (Object3D), with an idea of how the format might
> look. Feel free to improve it, and add more! Brave is he/she who documents
> property:property ;)

Property's actually really simple:

Message methods (and replies/updates sent):
* read (-> update)
* write (-> update??)
* replace  (-> update, replace-update [for errors])
* get-datatype (-> datatype-update)
* get-length (-> length-update)
* start-listening (-> start-listening-reply, update)
* stop-listening

No child objects defined (but they might be used in certain applications).

Then there's the access control policies.

Reed

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[vos-d] Wiki things: Portal Braindump and Metaobject Doc

[Ken Taylor]

Hey all, just a heads up to a couple things I put on the wiki recently:

First, a braindump about portals. http://interreality.org/wiki/WorldPortals
Comments are welcome!

Next I had an idea that it would be useful to document MetaObjects in a
way that the VOS API doesn't cover. Specifically, things visible by the
"external" world accessing a VOS site -- not necessarily things internal to
the VOS library (though some of those things can be documented too). That
is; child objects, properties, messages, access control policies, external
behavior, etc. The idea is that these external aspects are forming a kind of
"VOS protocol standard" and it'd be good to have it documented :) Check it
out: http://interreality.org/wiki/MetaObjectDocumentation

I've only done one for now (Object3D), with an idea of how the format might
look. Feel free to improve it, and add more! Brave is he/she who documents
property:property ;)

-Ken


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