Re: More on nonlinear storytelling

1998-06-15 Thread Kahuna

A chart is a good idea.  How about using an interface
for common behaviors so authors can change behaviors
from time to time?


It goes without saying that all behaviors would be protoed for reuse. I thought we 
would
use the psychcological profiles for each set of behaviors. The last time I took 
psycholoy
they were;
Ectomorph , Endomorph, and Metamorph there characteristic are in order
Passive Agressive, introverted physical traits are slinder , nervious activity.
Assertive, extroverted physical traits tend towards fatness, sedentary.
Agressive,assertive, extroverted physical traits musclular and athletic

or we could go for pure psychological profiles
Agressive , passive-agressive, Assertive, nuerotic, compulsive.

If you want another dimension of
depth, some character/roles should evolve.  As in your
example, the fishwife can certainly get meaner, but
that is not evolution (emergent behavior); just adjustment of range of
behavior.  Getting the character across a threshold
adds more depth because it surprises the user.  In a
plot line, say, you try to kiss the fishwife, and she smacks
you with a fish.  One day, you buy a fish and feed it to
the stray dog within sight of the fishwife.  Next time
you pass her, she gives you a fish and blows you a
kiss.   IOW, plot develops based on dependencies


Certainly an option, that won't inflate the code too much, my only argument would be 
what
importance would it play in the overall scheme of things. Sometimes we want to save all
the bells and whistles for the main story or the substory. If her behavior did 
something
to do that then it would be a good thing to include. Sometimes it is just better to 
create
one dimensional characters, especially if they add nothing to the progression of the
story.

I use to live in South Perioia, next to an old Italian lady we called Mrs. Dentino. Her
old craftsman style house was surrounded by a six foot tall wall of hedges. That  hedge
had faced many freezing Perioria winters, and the undignified attention of every stray 
dog
or cat in that city, but if a single child were to inadvertantly touch that hedge, or 
god
forbid pluck a leaf or a branch from it, Mrs. Dentino would fly out of the door like a
wrath with a broom and beat the hands and head of the offending child.

One summer day Mrs Dentino return from the corner store with a bag of groceries
precariously resting in the bend of her boney liver stained arms. She had an old metal 
tin
mail box in front of her hedges that could only be seen in the fall since the hedge all
but gobbled it up. That day as she was retrieving her mail from the box she almost 
spilled
her grocieries and in the movement to catch the bag before she spilled it a letter 
slipped
out of her hand and underneath her feet. She went inside her house without even 
noticing
the letter.

Looking for any opportunity to ingraciate myself with the old lady whose broom had so
frequently parted my unruley hair, I picked up the letter and went to the door and
knocked. She accepted the letter with a smile, and then quickly closed the door. I 
don't
know, if it was the heat or the Peroria humidity or maybe just the magic of that 
moment,,,
being rewarded with a smile instead of the business end of broom that is,,, but I 
forgot
what I was doing and my hands on their own volition grabbed the hedge when I passed and
plucked one perfect green leaf.

I had no sooner plucked the leaf when Mrs. Dentino was on me straw from the broom 
flying,
and the letter still in her hand. The moral of this story is, like it or not, some 
people
are extremely one dimensional and can't appreciate that circumstances change based on 
the
actions of the people they come in contact with.






Re: More on nonlinear storytelling

1998-06-15 Thread Kahuna

Good points Sandy,
 I believe if you really look closely you will see that most really good stories have 
the
characteristics of a good game. When I was a kid I was totally into Sherlock Holmes by 
Sir
Arthur Conan Doyle. I read them like a puzzle, trying to figure out who did what and 
when.
Later I went on to Agatha Cristy,,,  trying to solve the mystery before I reached the
conclusion. I have played Return to Zork and Myst. They have all the ingredients of a 
good
Mystery, with a fantasy theme to them. I think if you simply make a non linear story, 
you
will have a really cool game without having to worry about a score. Moving on in the 
plot
could also be done by connecting with the right characters, picking up an object, or
solving a puzzle.

Someone at the begining of this thread asked "Can VRML and Linear Story tellling 
co-exist"
. I assert that "Games and non-linear story telling not only co-exist, but that they 
are
joined at the hip". A good game,,, even Doom or Quake has at its core a story, and that
story has different outcomes. Of course Quake and Doom are extremely violent and
simplistic, but they have a popular theme repeated often in Sci Fi movies since 
talkeys;
"There are bad and evil monsters, and we have to kick their ass!".

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-Original Message-
From: John D. DeCuir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Sandy Ressler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: More on nonlinear storytelling


Hi Sandy,

At 10:41 PM 5/26/98 -0400, Sandy Ressler wrote:
First of all Good thread!

Yes -- everyone has had some great contributions to make.

I think to get back to Dennis' observation I can't think of any good
non-linear story that was simply a
story not a game.

I think there's an _extremely_ fine line between nonlinear stories and
games.  After all, how do you define a game?  And why is the labeling of a
particular world/story a "game" such a black mark?  I don't see it as
that... when I think about the Zork trilogy, I think back on a superbly
written story -- not necessarily a game per se.  Same for Myst.  If the
story is strong enough, the point will be made, regardless of what kind of
"label" is attached to the genre.

Can a nonlinear story that is NOT a game be compelling?

Seems to me a story that doesn't possess some game-like qualities would be
a dreadfully boring story.
  -John