Re: What shall we make / Intel for Mac OSX
On 06/06/2005, at 10:10 PM, tom samson wrote: I have it on good authority that Apple has secretly bought out Microsloth and is using Windows as a game engine. You navigate your way around and see if you can escape the Darkside. On a serious side I remember reading that the Sony Playstation was to have something like a G5 quad chip Now that would be good in my G5 which ends up being a G20. It is not the speed of the chip but how it works - that has been our cry. Imagine a quad G5 2.5 with a front-side bus of 2.5ghz. and whatever happened to the caterpillar drives the size of a postage stamp? Out of interest, will they make more new XBoxes than Macs? Also are they using the new PowerpC chips in cars etc? (I guess heat isn't as important in a gaming machine as a Powerbook). In other words what is the volume of Intel PC processors vs others combined? Brett Tsunami Home to the world championship X-Box tournament 2006 Yeah, right
Re: What shall we make / Intel for Mac OSX
Hmm... I go away for the long weekend and look what happens... So, why Apple shouldn't switch to Intel... * Apple would have to make Mac OS X work on Intel (not as much of a problem now with Darwin as it used to be). Once they've done that, it's likely that it will then be hacked by 3rd parties so that it can run on regular Intel PC's. So, there go Apple's hardware profits, and where does the majority of Apple's income come from? Hardware. Not to mention, all the developers would have to recompile and fix their applications (but hey, a great chance to sell upgrades :) * According to Mac Weekly Journal (http://www.macjournals.com/) When Apple announced the 2GHz G5, Intel announced the 3.2GHz P4. 23 months later, IBM has 2.75GHz PowerPC's and Intel has 3.8GHz P4 670. So Intel has only shown *half* as much improvement over that timeframe as the PowerPC has. Why should Apple switch to the processor that's improving more slowly? Really, the Intel processor is hampered by its 8 bit heritage and CISC compatibility. It's also more expensive, less energy efficient and runs hotter than the PowerPC. * Why would Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, who want the fastest processors available for their game consoles switch to using PowerPC if Intel was offering them better price/performance? Now that there is much more momentum behind the PowerPC, any improvements for Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft will flow onto the PowerPC design, as used by Apple. * Security. Currently the Mac enjoys immunity from many viruses and rootkits because it uses PowerPC instead of Intel. So throwing away that advantage when security is such a great concern would be really stupid. But hey, Apple buys a lot of chips for a lot of devices from a lot of manufacturers. It wouldn't be surprising if they decided to buy some of them from Intel and the Press got all confused. Have fun, Shay -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer Join Team Sungroper in the Opinions for hire [POQ] 2005 World Solar Challenge http://public.xdi.org/=Shayfnord http://sungroper.asn.au/
Re: What shall we make / Intel for Mac OSX
On 07/06/2005, at 12:06 AM, Shay Telfer wrote: Hmm... I go away for the long weekend and look what happens... So, why Apple shouldn't switch to Intel... Watch the fun live at: http://www.macrumorslive.com/web/ Cheers, Glen Low --- pixelglow software | simply brilliant stuff www.pixelglow.com aim: pixglen
NYT - Apple definitely moving to Intel
Well, this new article from the New York Times dated Monday 6th of June sounds like it doesn't leave much room for doubt. Apple is definitely moving to Intel because of IBM's refusal to drop prices on G5s or bring out lower-power versions according to their report, wheras Intel still smarting from . http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/06/technology/06apple.html? Steve is now on-stage as I write this so we should find out soon .. -Mart
Well, what do you know...
...looks like Apple are switching to Intel :) Time to patch those buffer overruns. Have fun, Shay (Who forgot that NeXT did the same thing some time back :) -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer Join Team Sungroper in the Opinions for hire [POQ] 2005 World Solar Challenge http://public.xdi.org/=Shayfnord http://sungroper.asn.au/
Re: what shall we make of this then?
The biggest thing that makes me skeptical is that they're rumoured to be talking to /Intel/. Now, if they were taking to AMD I'd be much more inclined to believe this - the Opteron is hot stuff. Same here. I just dropped an Athlon 64 3000+ into my PC because it's 64-bit and some of the programs I currently run there will benefit greatly. Intel doesn't even have a consumer level 64-bit chip shipping as far as I'm aware.
He was dressed in all black.
The Star Wars analogies will be everywhere tomorrow, but it is so very very true.
Re: He was dressed in all black.
The Star Wars analogies will be everywhere tomorrow, but it is so very very true. I just know I'm going to have nightmares of Intel chips chasing me across Apple motherboards.
Re: He was dressed in all black.
On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 03:12 +0800, Doug Wilson wrote: I just know I'm going to have nightmares of Intel chips chasing me across Apple motherboards. Aah, but there you have it. If they're not *Apple* motherboards, probably with OpenFirmware, I'll be shocked. It sounds a lot like they've chosen Intel for Pentium M (note Jobs' comments on power efficiency) - but that doesn't mean they'll want to use unmodified Intel/Via/SiS chipsets and boards. I'll be very surprised if they'll make it possible to run MacOS/X on standard PCs or Windows on macs. As for what's ahead, my money - if I had any to spare - would be on Opteron for the G5 replacements, or failing that EM64-T Xeon. Current users of Virtual PC might be interested to note that it'll almost certainly get a massive speed boost on the new systems, as it'd only need to virtualize the CPU, not emulate a different CPU. I'd put money on VMWare and QEmu ports for MacOS/X in a hurry, too. I wonder how long the WINE (http://www.winehq.com/) port is going to take - imagine being able to run some of those Windows-only apps without emulating all of Windows? Interesting times head. If I can run MacOS/X as a guest OS under Xen (and they put two trackpad buttons on their new iBooks), I might even buy a Mac laptop for my development work. I have a half-finished MacOS/X port of Scribus to help finish, and this news makes it all sound much more fun :-) -- Craig Ringer
DVD VIDEO_RMVIDEO_TSfiles
I have a DVD that I burned with two programs on a small one I'd like to keep and the second a Doctor Who prog I have now seen. I have them on my desk top but how can I get Rid of some of the footage and save the rest? Tried DVD Pro, VLC, MAc the Ripper tom samson
Fwd: Re: DVD VIDEO_RMVIDEO_TSfiles
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:43:36 +0800 To: tom samson [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Jude [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: DVD VIDEO_RMVIDEO_TSfiles Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: I have a DVD that I burned with two programs on a small one I'd like to keep and the second a Doctor Who prog I have now seen. I have them on my desk top but how can I get Rid of some of the footage and save the rest? Tried DVD Pro, VLC, MAc the Ripper tom samson -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro Hey Tom You could try DVDXDV or Mpegstreamclip to extract the parts of the DVD you want to keep.
ppc-intel query
Hi all, So there I was - finally gotten to the point where I've collected enough pennies to buy a new machine in the next couple of months - even started 'pretend-configuring' on the Apple site - fine-tuning what I can afford. Then there's yesterday's news. Now, watching Steve's keynote he seems to paint a picture where the transition will be completely painless for we consumers - Developers ship double-binaries? of all their apps for both ppc and the new intel boxes and Rosetta takes care of old apps flawlessly. Yet, there seem to be a lot of folk on the Mac web cursing and spitting 'cos they just bought new machines. I get the feeling I'm missing something here So, to my question: Why shouldn't I buy a new mac until next year? Or, for that matter, advise my friends not to? Can any of the techier folks on this list answer this in consumer-speak? Thanks in advance, (Unhappy and confused) Stew
Streaming video of keynote posted
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/ WWDC (Worldwide Developers Conference) is Apple¹s most important annual event for hardware and software developers to receive in-depth information and instruction from Apple's technical architects and engineers. Watch Apple CEO Steve Jobs kick-off the Worldwide Developers Conference with a keynote address from San Francisco's Moscone West. See the video-on-demand event right here exclusively in QuickTime and MPEG-4. Looks like it's getting hammered though, so you may want to wait till more of the USA goes to sleep -Mart -- Martin Hill mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] homepages: http://mart.ozmac.com Mb: 0417-967-969 hm: (08)9314-5242
Re: ppc-intel query
Like Tobe pondering on his recently acquired G5 I gave my 3 week old iBook a look this morning that was akin to well how's it feel to be the last species on evolutions dead end path? then decided what the heck it still does and will continue to do what it does now and more, Apples transition from 0x0 processors was slow and painless the transition from vanilla PPC to Gx was barely noted except for the nicer aesthetics and speed boost, classic OS to OS X has been, on the whole, a great success... I guess if there is one company that knows how to (and to borrow a feline metaphor from OSX) change it's spots its Apple. I don't doubt my iBook will see out it expected (hoped for) 4 years of life without the issue being a major concern and will defiantly encourage people at work to continue purchasing the current PPC based macs as and when the need for them arise. The only people who will could justifiably be concerned are people who: A: have developed their own in house programs using MetroWorks - sorry back to the drawing boards ppl. B: people in the creative industries who really use the the Altivac functions of the PPC chip to give them speed boosts in production - though now doubt the new Intel machines will use a brute force approach to processor speed to compensate - I expect to see the replacement for the dual PPC processor G5 towers and X-Serves running at least dual PentiumD chips (so 4 processors) and pretty high end graphics processing cards to compensate. On Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005, at 11:11 Australia/Perth, Stewart Woods wrote: Why shouldn't I buy a new mac until next year? Or, for that matter, advise my friends not to? When the switch occurs, you can be sure Apple are going to be doing everything they can to keep existing customers happy - stuff that works on today's Macs still will, and support in new apps for the G3/4/5 will have a long tail (like a lepoard?) I'll quote from Tidbits on this one: We always suggest buying what you need when you need it; there's invariably going to be something newer, better, and faster around the corner, and it's silly to wait forever until they stop innovating. http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08125 Cheers, Steve. -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro -- ~ Mark Secker Computer Support Officer ph# 61-8-6488 1855 (ECEL) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Western Australia - CRICOS Provider No. 00126G ~ It takes an idiot to do cool things that's why it's cool - Haruhara Haruka (FLCL) Ubi fumus, ibi fumus http://ecel-mark.ecel.uwa.edu.au/~marksecker/index.htm (sometimes works)
Re: ppc-intel query
On 07/06/2005, at 11:11 AM, Stewart Woods wrote: Hi all, So there I was - finally gotten to the point where I've collected enough pennies to buy a new machine in the next couple of months - even started 'pretend-configuring' on the Apple site - fine-tuning what I can afford. Then there's yesterday's news. Now, watching Steve's keynote he seems to paint a picture where the transition will be completely painless for we consumers - Developers ship double-binaries? of all their apps for both ppc and the new intel boxes and Rosetta takes care of old apps flawlessly. Yet, there seem to be a lot of folk on the Mac web cursing and spitting 'cos they just bought new machines. I get the feeling I'm missing something here So, to my question: Why shouldn't I buy a new mac until next year? Or, for that matter, advise my friends not to? Depends what you want to buy Steve. Remember, only the low spec machines will have an Intel first (ie Mac Mini end of the market). High end machines are sometime in 2007, which could be anywhere up to 2 1/2 years away. If you are willing to wait that long for a new, *untested* machine, you have a lot of patience :-) Like a few people (and Tidbits) have said, if you need a machine now, buy it. No use waiting for the next big thing, as there is always something else around the corner. Your software will still work, and considering almost all third party hardware is platform independent these days, they will work too. On a side note, boy did Apple put up a good smoke screen to divert attention from the lack of Aussie iTunes Music Store! :-) Seeya Rod!
Re: ppc-intel query
On Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005, at 11:11 Australia/Perth, Stewart Woods wrote: Why shouldn't I buy a new mac until next year? Because your bank doesn't like you making withdrawals? ;) I presume that Steve Jobs' intention was not to halt all Mac sales for the indefinite future, disgruntle all recent switchers, spook anyone who was considering switching or upgrading in the near future, and putting a knife through developers' prospects. I imagine he's done a good job of doing exactly that, though. Will be interesting to see the Intel equivalents of the AltiVec and Xserve products, esp. given the inevitable Mac-vs-Windows-vs-Linux performance comparisons (eg. Adobe Photoshop for workstations, Apache for servers, etc.). I wonder how Rosetta will perform, too. Presumably Apple will try to do a better job than Sun has done with its years of messing around with x86 vs SPARC.
Other things from WWDC....
Hi All! Just picked up a few other side notes (the Intel thing kinda has taken up a lot of bandwidth!): - WebObjects 5.3 was announced, as part of XCode 2.1. Now free for developers, but unsure of deployment. - Steve showed off iTunes 4.9, with Podcasting. - And some thing about OS X running on an Intel CPU... :-) I'd suggest to everyone to read through the blurb on Mactel. From what I can gather, it is not all that different from the 68k to PPC changeover. Programs will have two binaries, one for PPC and one for Intel. Those that don't want to compile for Intel will under Rosetta, a PPC emulation layer for Intel will allow those programs to run (Steve showed this off with Photoshop, Quicken and Office). And Apple are not discontinuing support for PPC in the near future! I'm sure 10.5 will run on both PPC and Intel Macs, as the number of PPC Macs will outweigh the Intel boxes for sometime yet. And as far as new Macs are concerned, I'd bet the farm on their being updates for all models for the next year with the PPC. Especially the high end Powermacs, as there could be anywhere up to a 2 year (or more) wait for these Intel boxes to ship. IBM aren't about to completely drop development of the PPC. Granted, the updates won't be like a 1Ghz or so, but the updates also incorporate other technologies ie when PMs went from Quicksilver to MDD, the raw CPU speed didn't increase that much, but the changes in the motherboard architecture were enormous. If you guys were let down by the last major change for Apple (OS 9 to OS X), you wouldn't be reading this email :-) Let the fun begin! Seeya Rod!
Re: RIP PowerPC
On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 06:13 +0800, Rob Davies wrote: I feel sorry for all the Apple retailers who have to re-evaluate future whilst surviving the transition, knowing they are going to be competing with our x86 brethren after the dust settles. They already are. I don't see that too much changes here, frankly, unless Apple decide to let MacOS/X run on standard PCs. Do you think that's likely, 'cos I sure don't. Thus, the competition is much the same as it was, though Apple might have a bit of an advantage if they let users dual-boot, or sell bundled versions of VMWare with Windows or something. Of course, I won't be surprised if the Mac-on-Linux crowd have cracked out a version that lets you run MacOS/X on a standard Linux PC within a few weeks of getting their hands on a preview build. That's geek territory really - I don't see your average user buying MacOS/X then installing Linux to run in in a virtualized environment. You have no idea how happy the idea of being able to run (probably virtualized) MacOS/X on my nice AMD desktop makes me, as a software developer and tester, though. I wonder how much more interest Apple might get from software developers if they provide a legit way to run MacOS/X on developers' existing Windows workstations? Marketing to the developers and improving the availability of the target platform, all in one. Obviously Apple did not learn from the last fore-ray into sharing chips and technology. Maybe they won't shoot themselves in the foot quite as hard this time ;-) As Shay mentioned earlier PowerPC offered security x86 definitely does not That's BS IMO. The incompatible OS APIs offered security - and still will offer the same level of it now. Just like before, there won't be viruses unless someone decides to target MacOS/X with them. The CPU doesn't matter. oh well what's another day on a weekend checking for rootkits, spyware, malware and this weeks new virus or rebuilding OS. Dunno. Do you plan on running Windows on yours? If not, I wouldn't worry. Not unless you worry about viruses on your current mac. Just like always, you'll want to be aware of the possibility, but won't need to expect every file to be wrapped in viruses. At Least $M Gates will be smiling another 12 months to get his Longhorn $M stable, and out the door. Whilst knowing he can control another part of the Apple, it's future development. Er... how so? Apple can go to any x86 chip maker - currently AMD and Intel for the high end, VIA and Intel for the low end. Microsoft can pressure Intel, but not as hard as they once could. I wouldn't think Apple has opened themselves to anything they weren't already subject to because of their platform's dependence on MS Office. Microsoft can't afford to pressure Apple right now, either. They have legal problems and need to look like well behaved, honest above-board folks. One must ask if PowerPC has no future roadmap or growth why have all the leading games console manufacturers switched to them for the next generation. Well, they /are/ using very specialized chips. Not desktop PC material at all, really. IBM /has/ been having trouble ramping desktop/workstation chips to very high speeds, and remember that there's the Opteron to consider in the workstation market now. -- Craig Ringer
Re: ppc-intel query
On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 12:02 +0800, James Devenish wrote: On Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005, at 11:11 Australia/Perth, Stewart Woods wrote: Why shouldn't I buy a new mac until next year? Because your bank doesn't like you making withdrawals? ;) I presume that Steve Jobs' intention was not to halt all Mac sales for the indefinite future, disgruntle all recent switchers, spook anyone who was considering switching or upgrading in the near future [...] I'd be surprised if he managed that. The initial response has been way more negative than I would've expected. Surely people will realize that these will still be Macs despite the different CPU, and that developers will maintain compatibility for a fair while yet (there being a big PPC installed base and all)? The main piss-off will be having to buy upgrades to all your software to get it to run at full performance on the Intel-based machines. Oh, and drivers. That *will* cause some fury. Hmmm... maybe you're right :S [...] and putting a knife through developers' prospects. I imagine he's done a good job of doing exactly that, though. Really? Porting doesn't seem that hard. I've read the porting document, and most of it deals with the two areas I expected - endian issues, and vector instructions. In a well written application the vector code will already be in well-separated platform-specific parts of the code, preferably with a portable equivalent already done. That just shouldn't be too bad even if they do need to write some new SSE-based vector ASM for x86. If the AltiVec code is scattered through their codebase then someone needs to show them what software engineering is. Endian issues will be more of a pain for Mac developers who don't also support any little-endian platforms already, but shouldn't be *that* big a deal. They didn't cause too much trouble when porting Scribus over to MacOS/X for PPC (not finished, but hardly anybody has time to work on it right now). Will be interesting to see the Intel equivalents of the AltiVec and Xserve products, esp. given the inevitable Mac-vs-Windows-vs-Linux performance comparisons (eg. Adobe Photoshop for workstations, Apache for servers, etc.). My bet: Opteron . That'd provide SSE 3 and 3DNow pro. Admittedly not really the same as AltiVec, but not too bad either. I wonder how Rosetta will perform, too. I'd expect a pretty serious performance hit. Reading between the lines, he keynote suggests that it'll be fine for apps which are often bottlenecked at the disk, or that are usually waiting for user input, but not so hot for apps that are CPU heavy. If it's less than an order of magnitude I'll be fairly impressed. Presumably Apple will try to do a better job than Sun has done with its years of messing around with x86 vs SPARC. One can only hope. -- Craig Ringer
No more Nortons SystemWorks or Utilities for Tiger
From http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/num.nsf/docid/2005032314263511: Norton SystemWorks and Norton Utilities will not be updated for compatibility with Mac OS X 10.4. Have fun, Shay -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer Join Team Sungroper in the Opinions for hire [POQ] 2005 World Solar Challenge http://public.xdi.org/=Shayfnord http://sungroper.asn.au/
Re: Other things from WWDC....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 01:36:01PM +0800, Matthew Healey wrote: Software developer ships ONE app bundle. When the user double clicks on it, it auto-magically loads the correct binary for that system. You won't have the problem of which one to I download?. So what will we get instead? Why is Acrobat Reader 100MB to download? you mean it isn't already 100MB?. ow no wait those were Wintel machines I was downloading it on to ... I guess that's why the old 0x0/PPC apps were called fat apps. but then I think Acrobat reader long ago left it's core lite and easy mantra at the door of the temple of bloatware. It's a rare thing for me to right click on a pdf to open it in reader when preview does 99% or more of what I need my PDF's to do. - I don't even install it on staff macs here unless they are also using the full Acrobat program so they can do a reasonable proof of it on a vanilla PDF reader. -- ~ Mark Secker Computer Support Officer ph# 61-8-6488 1855 (ECEL) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Western Australia - CRICOS Provider No. 00126G ~ It takes an idiot to do cool things that's why it's cool - Haruhara Haruka (FLCL) Ubi fumus, ibi fumus http://ecel-mark.ecel.uwa.edu.au/~marksecker/index.htm (sometimes works)
Re: RIP PowerPC
On 07/06/2005, at 1:28 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 06:13 +0800, Rob Davies wrote: I feel sorry for all the Apple retailers who have to re-evaluate future whilst surviving the transition, knowing they are going to be competing with our x86 brethren after the dust settles. They already are. I don't see that too much changes here, frankly, unless Apple decide to let MacOS/X run on standard PCs. Do you think that's likely, 'cos I sure don't. Thus, the competition is much the same as it was, though Apple might have a bit of an advantage if they let users dual-boot, or sell bundled versions of VMWare with Windows or something. *The* killer app will be if Apple can get Windows software to run in OS X (like WINE). The switchers don't have to upgrade their software straight away, and don't have to worry about the spyware/trojan/virus plague on WIndows (unless those apps can be affected in WINE). Who knows Seeya Rod!
Re: No more Nortons SystemWorks or Utilities for Tiger
On 07/06/2005, at 1:33 PM, Shay Telfer wrote: From http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/num.nsf/docid/ 2005032314263511: Norton SystemWorks and Norton Utilities will not be updated for compatibility with Mac OS X 10.4. Hear that, it's a collective sigh of relief and a scream of terror from all the Mac consultants out there. Firstly, those two programs account for a huge percentage of Mac problems. Consultants cringe when we here it being used. Secondly, it's also a great source of income in fixing the problems created by said programs. Ahh well. Can't have it both ways I guess. - Matt
Re: RIP PowerPC
On 07/06/2005, at 2:46 PM, Rod wrote: On 07/06/2005, at 1:28 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 06:13 +0800, Rob Davies wrote: I feel sorry for all the Apple retailers who have to re-evaluate future whilst surviving the transition, knowing they are going to be competing with our x86 brethren after the dust settles. They already are. I don't see that too much changes here, frankly, unless Apple decide to let MacOS/X run on standard PCs. Do you think that's likely, 'cos I sure don't. Thus, the competition is much the same as it was, though Apple might have a bit of an advantage if they let users dual-boot, or sell bundled versions of VMWare with Windows or something. *The* killer app will be if Apple can get Windows software to run in OS X (like WINE). The switchers don't have to upgrade their software straight away, and don't have to worry about the spyware/ trojan/virus plague on WIndows (unless those apps can be affected in WINE). Rod, You say that like it's a good thing. Name one single well designed piece of windows software (not by Apple, or a port from existing Mac version) that has a decent user interface. Additionally, not running Windows software is a GOOD thing. If all those windows apps will run, so will all those viruses and trojans. - Matt
Re: Other things from WWDC....
On 07/06/2005, at 14:22 , James Devenish wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 01:36:01PM +0800, Matthew Healey wrote: Software developer ships ONE app bundle. When the user double clicks on it, it auto-magically loads the correct binary for that system. You won't have the problem of which one to I download?. So what will we get instead? Why is Acrobat Reader 100MB to download? I don't think it will be that bad - only the executable needs to be modified. For instance, Safari.app is 20MB (on my computer), but the executable inside the package is only 1 MB, so you might envisage an app like Safari containing a universal binary would be 21 MB instead of 20 MB. Another example - iPhoto.app is a ~ 160 MB package with a 3.6 MB binary. I think in most cases, the difference will be negligible. And would anyone downloading Acrobat Reader be intelligent enough to notice anyway? -josh Josh McKinnon : http://josh.corduroy.biz/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RIP PowerPC
Additionally, not running Windows software is a GOOD thing. If all those windows apps will run, so will all those viruses and trojans. not necessarily... the scenario would be, I guess, similar to running windows drivers and applications in VMware and wrappers and the VMware and wrappers can't pass the infection down and on to the lower level Apple code because rather than hitting the full version of the Wintel system they rather hit a black box abstraction of part of it. OK so maybe your VMware _may_ get infected but as they are a collection of individual programs (or a collection of collections of programs) rather than an integrated operating system in and of it's self then you could blow them away (or even have them install clean each bootup?) without sweating on system corruption/reinstalls that Wnidoze users have to think about. - Matt -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro -- ~ Mark Secker Computer Support Officer ph# 61-8-6488 1855 (ECEL) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Western Australia - CRICOS Provider No. 00126G ~ It takes an idiot to do cool things that's why it's cool - Haruhara Haruka (FLCL) Ubi fumus, ibi fumus http://ecel-mark.ecel.uwa.edu.au/~marksecker/index.htm (sometimes works)
Re: ppc-intel query
On 07/06/2005, at 1:39 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: The main piss-off will be having to buy upgrades to all your software to get it to run at full performance on the Intel-based machines. Oh, and drivers. That *will* cause some fury. Hmmm... maybe you're right :S Which sorts of drivers do people install on Mac's these days? Printer drivers are pretty much all taken care of. If not by Apple, then by simple PPD's, and even then by CUPS. Graphics Cards. All handled by Apple. Scanners. Could be a sticking point, but no more than it already is. Digital Cameras. All handled by Apple. What else is there?
Re: Other things from WWDC....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 03:11:11PM +0800, Josh McKinnon wrote: On 07/06/2005, at 14:22 , James Devenish wrote: So what will we get instead? Why is Acrobat Reader 100MB to download? I don't think it will be that bad - only the executable needs to be modified. For instance, Safari.app is 20MB (on my computer), but the executable inside the package is only 1 MB Some of Apple's apps are rather small because the bulk of the executable portions are stored in system libraries (e.g. I imagine WebKit is large even though Safari is small). Other apps can have tens of megabytes of executables. But yes, you are right, the non-executables portions of many apps are larger than their executables portions, so the increase is not much larger. However, the rapidly-increasing size of installers is an issue for me and it's obviously just going to get worse (like all storage/RAM/CPU requirements always do, sigh). And would anyone downloading Acrobat Reader be intelligent enough to notice anyway? LOL.
Re: RIP PowerPC
On 07/06/2005, at 3:07 PM, Matthew Healey wrote: snip Rod, You say that like it's a good thing. Name one single well designed piece of windows software (not by Apple, or a port from existing Mac version) that has a decent user interface. Additionally, not running Windows software is a GOOD thing. If all those windows apps will run, so will all those viruses and trojans. Bad interface or not, there are a lot of programs out there that are PC only. Quicken and MYOB Premier come to mind. Tons of businesses in Australia run these two apps. That's a big market to tap into. Replace those ugly Dell boxes out front with a Mac Mini, and run the usual Mac Office apps with Quicken or MYOB. Then all those schools who have ditched Macs years ago can be migrated back, not losing out on the thousands of dollars spent on software. As much as you would hate to think it, we do have a use for some Windows software out there :-) Seeya Rod!
Re: ppc-intel query
On 07/06/2005, at 1:39 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: The main piss-off will be having to buy upgrades to all your software to get it to run at full performance on the Intel-based machines. Oh, and drivers. That *will* cause some fury. Hmmm... maybe you're right :S Which sorts of drivers do people install on Mac's these days? Printer drivers are pretty much all taken care of. If not by Apple, then by simple PPD's, and even then by CUPS. Graphics Cards. All handled by Apple. Scanners. Could be a sticking point, but no more than it already is. Digital Cameras. All handled by Apple. What else is there? Typical Intel box addons include sound cards, and TV Tuners... Depends what the specs on the Mactel boxes are going to be really, but I'm betting that people will expect to be able to plug existing PC cards into them (and will whinge when they don't work). Have fun, Shay -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer Join Team Sungroper in the Opinions for hire [POQ] 2005 World Solar Challenge http://public.xdi.org/=Shayfnord http://sungroper.asn.au/
Re: ppc-intel query
On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 14:42 +0800, James Devenish wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 01:39:03PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: [...] and putting a knife through developers' prospects. I imagine he's done a good job of doing exactly that, though. Really? Porting doesn't seem that hard. Is it expected that developers will just be able to cross-compile all their apps and blindly hope for the best? If developers should be testing and/or profiling their apps on the target platform, that doubles the testing and doubles the hardware required. I haven't read the porting document, but given past experiences (again, Solaris comes to mind), it does seem a bit naive to assume that porting is no problem (even if Apple's high-level interfaces should make it painless). That's true. It will increase testing requirements, especially at first. Again, well organized developers with good test suites etc will suffer less. Again, all the same problems as transitions from 68k to PPC, OS9 to OSX, etc. The transitions are entirely plausible, but still painful, and Apple makes the pain keep on coming. For example: Apple's been rather stupid recently and been selling new Macs that only run Tiger, i.e. not Panther. Oooh, great. I'm still smarting from the macs that won't run OS9 anymore (but then I'm stuck in a legacy nightmare here at the POST). You're quite right in that another big change now won't be popular. We've had: System 6 - MacOS 7 m68k - PPC Old World - New World (doesn't affect most app devs) MacOS 9 - Clasic MacOS/X and now: MacOS/PPC - MacOS/x86 Yeah... it doesn't help developers view it as a nice stable platform to develop for. Even so, I don't see this as likely to be a particularly bad blow - and the potential gains are IMO significant. -- Craig Ringer
Re: ppc-intel query
Yeah... it doesn't help developers view it as a nice stable platform to develop for. Even so, I don't see this as likely to be a particularly bad blow - and the potential gains are IMO significant. I think all the changes tend to knock any 'incompatible' edges off the code. Those who have written portably and followed the API guidelines will be the most rewarded :) Have fun, Shay -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer Join Team Sungroper in the Opinions for hire [POQ] 2005 World Solar Challenge http://public.xdi.org/=Shayfnord http://sungroper.asn.au/
Re: ppc-intel query
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 04:20:09PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: Yeah... it doesn't help developers I get hit twice, i.e., s/developers/administrators, developers, sane people/ (pick two, c, c).
Re: RIP PowerPC
On 07/06/2005, at 3:27 PM, Rod wrote: As much as you would hate to think it, we do have a use for some Windows software out there :-) and don't get me started on games Boot into windows instead of waiting 2 years for a clumsy port - Where do I sign? :-) Stew
Re: RIP PowerPC
On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 16:51 +0800, Stewart Woods wrote: On 07/06/2005, at 3:27 PM, Rod wrote: As much as you would hate to think it, we do have a use for some Windows software out there :-) and don't get me started on games Boot into windows instead of waiting 2 years for a clumsy port - Where do I sign? There might be even better than that if TransGaming (http://www.transgaming.com) move their tech over to work on MacOS/X too. -- Craig Ringer
RIP PowerPC II
Afternoon, After several hours of pondering ones thoughts and feeling with the shock subsided, and reading an endless array of banter and rhetoric of some I have not yet published or commented. I believe Apple may have had no choice as IBM seem to be realising that the Apple iterations of its PPC was costing them to much in development time and monetary reward inclusive of negative publicity. I feel from reading some reports that IBM made it very difficult for Apple to feel comfortable in their future partnerships. http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/ ap_apple_more_trouble_than_it_was_worth_for_ibm/ Cheers! Rob Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can always tell if you're working on a Mac or a PC, he said. Just take your applications and stick them in and see if they run (Gates 05). If it does Welcome to Mac OS X! (RJDarts 05).
airport express/printer
With help from my daughter I got my Airport express working so that I can share adsl with my powerbook and my husband's ibook. One of the big problems was that as soon as I plugged the usb cord from my Canon MP780 the airport express disappears, base station does not exist. Any clues? Rosemary Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RIP PowerPC II
Afternoon, After several hours of pondering ones thoughts and feeling with the shock subsided, and reading an endless array of banter and rhetoric of some I have not yet published or commented. I believe Apple may have had no choice as IBM seem to be realising that the Apple iterations of its PPC was costing them to much in development time and monetary reward inclusive of negative publicity. I feel from reading some reports that IBM made it very difficult for Apple to feel comfortable in their future partnerships. http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/ ap_apple_more_trouble_than_it_was_worth_for_ibm/ Cheers! Rob Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can always tell if you're working on a Mac or a PC, he said. Just take your applications and stick them in and see if they run (Gates 05). If it does Welcome to Mac OS X! (RJDarts 05).
Re: ppc-intel query
Stewart Woods wrote: So, to my question: Why shouldn't I buy a new mac until next year? Or, for that matter, advise my friends not to? Can any of the techier folks on this list answer this in consumer-speak? Hey Stew The sooner people get a Mac the sooner they can enjoy it. Think of all those *nice* PC users out there who need rescuing:) If you start having doubts, just repeat these words three times the transition will be completely painless, click your heels together and you should be right. If in doubt, repeat. Cheers Paul -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/06/2005
Nifty shortcut in Safari
Hi All! Not sure if anyone has picked this up before, but when in Safari and you press Command (Apple) 1-9, it will load the bookmarks located under the button bar. Another one of those little things you never really notice, but gives a small amount of amazement for about 3 minutes when you discover it :-) Seeya Rod! PS If you haven't seen the WWDC keynote yet, have a gander. The audience reaction I think is more important than what Steve had to say - very positive IMHO. Once the US stopped watching it, the broadcast quality is amazing! Especially for those on broadband2. ;-)
Fwd: Baby Boomer and Senior Internet Usage Survey Master Thesis
Begin forwarded message: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7 June 2005 6:25:10 PM To: REMOVED Subject: Baby Boomer and Senior Internet Usage Survey Master Thesis Hi I am a Masters in Marketing student at Swinburne University and I'm doing my thesis on baby boomer and seniors usage of the internet. This is one of the first academic research papers on this topic in Australia. I was wondering if it would be possible to get a message to your members to ask them if they would fill in the survey, I am looking for people over the age of 45 to fill in the survey. The survey is totally anonymous and can be viewed at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=399441062138 thanks Kind Regards Anna Coates Marketing Specialist MYOB Australia Pty Ltd Ph: (03) 9222 9864 Fx: (03) 9222 9886
[Meeting] Meeting Notes from June Meeting
Welcome from Peter Hinchliffe for the June Meeting Q A * Moving files across 2 machines so a common area can be used to save so permission error's don't happen. The easiest way for this would be the Shared Folder, and create a folder inside. Then under Owner and Permissions, change it to read and write, and apply to enclosed items. From that point on any files thrown in that folder will be able to be read and written. You can also use a program called BatChMod (VersionTracker) which will also change permissions as well. An email was sent to the US and was sent back because AOL couldn't read the MIME attachment. The problem is to do with the resource forks. To work around it, with Mail (and Preferences) you can choose a feature called Always send as an a Windows attachment ) or Windows friendly attachment and it will go through correctly. Attachments for iCal appointments aren't been adding. You could try deleting the Preference file. Otherwise it may also be beneficial to post to some of the other newsgroups for a response. (MacFixit, Apple Forums etc.) * Matt then showed off OmniGraffle and ComicLife * If you've ever needed to do graphs or charts then OmniGraffle is for you. You start with a blank canvas, open up the inspectors for doing many things. You draw in the shapes you want, triangles, square, stop sign, or you can add stencils. With the line tool you can add a line between two of the items, or more if required. With OmniGraffle it knows what is an object and what is a line. So when you move a shape the lines will move as well. You can also make a shape a magnatised shape. This is done by using Maganitised shapes (with built in magnets). When you move a shape the points connected with stay together. As an example you can it to draw up things like networks, showing all the connections between computers, hardware, cabling, internet, access points etc. Then if you add or move something you can move things around to add it, and then you can see at a glance the overall network points etc. Very powerful. Colours can also be used to differentiate between different items, or groups of items. Spotlight also works with OmniGraffle as well, so you can search for things. It also uses rulers so acts as a smart guide (Inspiration is also a program that does a similar job.) -ComicLife - It integrates with iPhoto and allows you to turn your photo library into a Comic Book. You choose a layout, add in your pictures (directly from iPhoto) (All drag and drop). From there,...add in little objects, shapes and think bubbles. Then add in your text inside the think bubbles and viola you've created your Comic Book. Add in more pages and keep working through each page after page until you've completed a whole book. From there you can print it out or print it to pdf. A good way to make something different from your iPhotos. (Oh and it also makes sounds when you move things around, change font sizes and shapes. It's about US$30 and is shareware. Download a copy from Versiontracker and have a play! Something very different (And fun). Sizing for most pages is reasonable, so with smaller pictures, small enough to email. * Ruben then showed off iLife and the DVD he created * Using iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and iDVD Ruben gave a run down of how all the software tied together to give a finished product. Pictures and Video footage coming from Ruben's 22nd party. Pictures were all taken with a Digital Still camera, Video taken with a Digital Video Camera. You can drag and drop pretty much any QuickTime file into iMovie. (El Gato eyeTV files, Windows Media files,...etc). Dragging the video files into the timeline, then into sequence you create a seamless mix. By adding transitions you get an even smoother movement through the footage. By then adding your own music from iTunes, you can overwrite the music already there. This can be a good way to hide out too much poor music, or if the music jumps all over the place. Again this adds to the seamless movement of the movie. Once you're happy with the finished product, you can then move it over to iDVD. This allows you to edit it further, add titles, menus, chapters and really turn it into something special! Nice easy software,...does some pretty cool things! Matt then finished it off with a quick glimpse at part of the WWDC Keynote. Meeting finished with coffee and biscuits. Thanks again to Susan for taping it. Good job! If there's a delay in the video,..it's cause of tape changing and batteries. But hey, it's still good eh! Thanks again all for coming along and braving the weather! We hope you enjoyed it! Don't forget the challenge we put forward to everyone,...what would you like to see in the meetings,..what software do you use and would you like to show it off. Drop us an email and let us know! Thanks and enjoy! Kind Regards Daniel (See I got through the whole email and didn't mention Apple moving to Intel within the next 2 years.) ;o) hehehe
