Re: Another Mail conundrum

[Julie Bedford]

Hi Alex

I thought you were being funny at first !  Here is the link - and email. - 
Cheers Jewels

Hi Jewels

Even if you move them off the Inbox, you can still reference them back. 
My inbox is pretty much empty…..well at this point in time it is completely 
empty as I’ve done all the days emails and filed it all away,..to start afresh 
tomorrow. (And I know it annoys Ronni when I say my Inbox is zero,….lol….). But 
I can still go back and search for every single email right back to whenever I 
want,…and it will search all folders regardless of where I stored emails to.

And yes, if you have them being set to delete from the server,…this will be 
affecting IMAP. Once you delete emails from the inbox at the server,…it deletes 
them out of IMAP folders. POP3 is completely different. So you really want them 
out of your Inbox (and off the server,…stored locally). This will then free up 
space on your iinet server,…and not have the delete issue.
This link to understanding how IMAP and POP works may help - 
https://www.name.com/support/articles/205935497-Understanding-the-difference-between-POP-and-IMAP
 

https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/email/pop3-imap-smtp-protocols-explained-ports
 



But if you’ve reached your iinet server,…and you have it set to delete after 
month at iinet,…then that is why it’s deleting from your Inbox. As that is how 
IMAp works.

Kind regards
Daniel
---
Daniel Kerr
MacWizardry
> On 21 Nov 2019, at 12:43 AM, Alex  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> just to add to “mysterious”Mail goings on, I would like to know how I can 
> lose emails into thin air?
> 
> As an example, I have lost Daniel’s reply to Jewels yesterday with the link 
> to info about imap & pop.  Now I would have thought that if I had 
> inadvertently deleted the message or moved it to another folder, when I did a 
> search, it would appear again.  But not so.  this also happened a few days 
> ago when I had my finger hovering above another message while thinking - it 
> also disappeared into the ether!
> 
> Now, I am a believer in operator error, but the logic of this situation 
> baffles me.  (I haven’t emptied the Trash folder this evening which I usually 
> do on a daily basis)
> 
> Sorry I can’t give more specific info, except using a MacBook Pro 2018 High 
> Sierra.
> 
> Cheers & thanks,
> 
> Alex
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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> Guidelines - 
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> 

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Another Mail conundrum

[Alex]

Hi All,

just to add to “mysterious”Mail goings on, I would like to know how I can lose 
emails into thin air?

As an example, I have lost Daniel’s reply to Jewels yesterday with the link to 
info about imap & pop.  Now I would have thought that if I had inadvertently 
deleted the message or moved it to another folder, when I did a search, it 
would appear again.  But not so.  this also happened a few days ago when I had 
my finger hovering above another message while thinking - it also disappeared 
into the ether!

Now, I am a believer in operator error, but the logic of this situation baffles 
me.  (I haven’t emptied the Trash folder this evening which I usually do on a 
daily basis)

Sorry I can’t give more specific info, except using a MacBook Pro 2018 High 
Sierra.

Cheers & thanks,

Alex-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
Archives - 
Guidelines - 
Settings & Unsubscribe - 

Re: MAIL

[Julie Bedford]

Hi Daniel,
Apologies for my late response, have been working all day until late this 
evening.
Yes, I would say you are definitely correct about the two protocols.  There was 
one comment on the net that said not to use them together as one would hit 
problems.  Rather than make any changes to these protocols at the moment, I 
will hang on until I get my new MacPro, whenever they become available and will 
probably have the two machines set up as POP.  I do appreciate you favouring 
the IMAP though and its advantages.

In regards to the Outgoing Mail Server, I now realise I should have gone into 
the Outgoing Mail Server box and edited the SMTP server list, as this is the 
only way I can get to the password etc.  A friend came around this evening and 
checked this. The password and other settings were where you said they should 
have been.  He did change the port number though, but later discovered it had 
reverted back to its original number.  However, it got me back on line with 
sending out emails.  Neither of us have any explanation for this.  I also 
called iinet as the server was saying I was over my quota - which is only 
1000mbs.  I was told the server was not functioning correctly which was why it 
would not release the deletions I had made.  It should be running okay 
tomorrow.  Who knows !

Many thanks for giving me a hand on this one.  I can say I have learnt a lot 
from this experience, mainly thanks to yourself and will keep your emails as a 
reference in case I need in the future (let’s hope not though)

Sincere thanks again

Jewels

> On 20 Nov 2019, at 1:00 AM, Daniel Kerr  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jewels
> 
> OK,..so part of your mail issue could be related to one computer using POP 
> and the other using IMAP. As they’re both different “protocols”. So if the 
> POP3 one is “downloading” or removing from the server,..then it will be 
> affecting the IMAP one. You really want them using the same protocol. - ie 
> both POP3 or both IMAP.
> It depends on how you want to use Mail really…..
> 
> In regards to the settings. Where you went to Outoing Mail Server and then 
> clicked Advanced tab. On the left of that, should be “Server Settings” tab.
> Click on that, and you want to make sure that both Username and password are 
> filled in.
> It should read.
> Username - jew...@iinet.net.au
> Password - your password
> Host Name - mail.iinet.net.au
> Authentication set to “Password” (or if using iinet as your ISP, you can set 
> this to None).
> 
> I generally have “Automatically manage connection Settings unticked” and the 
> allow insecure authentication also unticked.
> 
> Kind regards
> Daniel
> 
> ---
> Daniel Kerr
> MacWizardry
> 
> Phone: 0414 795 960
> Email: 
> Web:   
> 
> 
> **For everything Apple**
> 
> NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and 
> as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. 
> Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or 
> accept liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this 
> email is to be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the 
> author be requested. 
> 
>> On 20 Nov 2019, at 12:45 am, Julie Bedford  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Daniel,
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for the instructions.
>> 
>> Okay, Right hand side hit on the jew...@iinet.net.au address, now on the 
>> right hand side I have showing :
>> 
>> 
>> Account Type POP (on my networked iMac it is IMAP)
>> 
>> Then my alias
>> 
>> Email address:  jew...@iinet.net.au
>> 
>> Full nameJulie etc
>> 
>> Incoming Mail Server - mail.iinet.net.au (which is shadowed)
>> 
>> User Name: jew...@iinet.net.au
>> 
>> Password - filled in
>> 
>> Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) - mail.iinet.net.au
>> 
>> TLS Certificate - ‘None’
>> 
>> 
>> Under “Advanced” tab
>> 
>> I have the Port showing and underneath that -
>> 
>> Authentication - Password
>> 
>> Then a box unticked “allow insecure authentication”
>> 
>> 
>> Hope this make sense
>> 
>> 
>> Jewels
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20 Nov 2019, at 12:27 am, Daniel Kerr  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Julie
>>> 
>>> Most emails sent if you’re on the same server shouldn’t need authentication 
>>> (ie if you’re sending iinet emails on the iinet server). However, if you’re 
>>> sending emails on a different network connection (or travel on different 
>>> wireless connections that use different internet/ISPs) then authentication 
>>> is needed (eg using iinet email but say on a Telstra or Optus network).
>>> This setting can be found in - 
>>> 
>>> Mail = Preferences - Accounts - click on email account on left hand side. 
>>> On right hand side, go to Server Settings.
>>> Look under Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP). You’ll see “Host Name”, which is a 
>>> drown menu (if you have set ti automatically manage connection settings 
>>> this can be slightly different).
>>> Go to Edit SMTP Server List (or you’ll want the follow details near where 
>>> it says “host name”.)
>>> 

Re: MAIL BOX

[Julie Bedford]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for your reply Neil.  Yes, I’ve come to the same conclusion in regards 
to having POP and IMAP on the same network.  On checking, it appears to change 
an IMAP to a POP account is rather laborious and difficult.  I’ve always used 
the POP and prefer this option, as I look upon the IMAP to be similar to a 
Cloud storage system.  Now that I have a better understanding of these, I am 
sure I’ll survive until I manage to purchase the new MacPro and then decide 
what to do.  I do understand what Daniel says though and can see why most 
prefer this option.  

I checked my quota on the iinet website earlier and I’m over 1900mb of 1000mb.  
A bit of a mystery as I do not have that many stored on the server.  After 
speaking with iinet, they think their server is having problems and should be 
able to clean out my mail tomorrow.  A friend today had a look at my system and 
changed the outgoing port, which actually returned to it’s original number but 
the good thing is, my email is now working ?  I have no answers for this 
miraculous recovery :)  The only out of the ordinary thing I did in my mail 
recently was to delete about 1gb worth of emails, but that really should not 
have affected the mail set up or loading up my iinet quota.

Yes, I understand your reasoning behind obtaining personal domains, I had 
thought of the doing the same in the past.  Everything was so much cheaper back 
then, but of course now it is not the case.  I do have a good email backup 
software - Mailer Archiver X - so I guess I could use that to fall back on if 
all else fails.

If nothing else, I’ve learnt from this exercise.

Thanks again Neil

Jewels
> On 20 Nov 2019, at 5:46 PM, Neil Houghton  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jewels,
> 
> I think that, as Daniel says, your basic problem is down to accessing this 
> email account via POP on one computer and via IMAP on the other. You CAN do 
> this (as you are) but, to avoid losing emails, you really need to have a 
> strategy that considers where/how the emails are stored and if/when they get 
> downloaded and/or deleted from the server.
> 
> As Daniel says, the simplest and cleanest email setup nowadays is just to use 
> IMAP on all machines and have all your messages organised in folders on the 
> server - that way your emails and folder organisation looks the same whatever 
> device you use to access your email.
> 
> The main problem with this approach is if you save a lot of emails and your 
> email provider has quotas on email storage which you exceed at some point.
> 
> I guess I am well familiar with this since, back in the day, I purchased 
> personal domains for my wife & I so that we could have our own email 
> addresses - without having to worry about losing our email addresses if/when 
> we changed ISPs and, since we were only using these for emails rather than 
> setting up websites, I just went with a free web hosting account.
> 
> Now, I have to say that the set-up works fine and does all we wanted EXCEPT 
> that our storage & bandwidth quotas are very low ( I'm not complaining - we 
> pay $0 for this!). My original strategy was to set-up all accounts as POP on 
> all machines then designate our primary personal computers to download from 
> the server and all secondary devices to leave on the server. That allowed us 
> to check for new emails on any device but save and store them on our primary 
> computers. This worked OK provided our personal computers downloaded 
> frequently enough to keep the server relatively empty.
> 
> But, as emails became larger, and there were lots more of them, and we took 
> longer holidays with our laptop leaving our primary computers switched off at 
> home - it became harder to manage and to stop our meagre server allowance 
> causing everything to grind to a halt whilst we were overseas.
> 
> The best solution FOR US will be to cough up for paid hosting which will give 
> us enough storage and bandwidth to set-up all the accounts as IMAP - however, 
> I still haven't got round to that yet!
> 
> My interim solution - which works fine but involves a little more 
> organisation on my part - when I took out an Office 365 subscription I got 
> 1TB of MS OneDrive cloud storage which gives me plenty of email storage so I 
> set-up an outlook.com email account, accessed only by IMAP, and set-up my 
> email folder organisation on that. Emails to my personal account that I want 
> to keep are moved to these folders and can then be deleted from the server on 
> my personal domain to keep me below the quota.
> 
> As you will have now realised, there are many different ways to manage your 
> emails and keeps the ones you need whilst not clogging up your quota-limited 
> server. The important thing is to come up with a clear plan that suits your 
> personal wants/needs and then set-up your various accounts and devices so 
> that they all play nice together.
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> Neil
> -- 
> Neil R. Houghton
> Albany, Western 

Re: MAIL BOX

[Neil Houghton]

Hi Jewels,

I think that, as Daniel says, your basic problem is down to accessing this 
email account via POP on one computer and via IMAP on the other. You CAN do 
this (as you are) but, to avoid losing emails, you really need to have a 
strategy that considers where/how the emails are stored and if/when they get 
downloaded and/or deleted from the server.

As Daniel says, the simplest and cleanest email setup nowadays is just to use 
IMAP on all machines and have all your messages organised in folders on the 
server - that way your emails and folder organisation looks the same whatever 
device you use to access your email.

The main problem with this approach is if you save a lot of emails and your 
email provider has quotas on email storage which you exceed at some point.

I guess I am well familiar with this since, back in the day, I purchased 
personal domains for my wife & I so that we could have our own email addresses 
- without having to worry about losing our email addresses if/when we changed 
ISPs and, since we were only using these for emails rather than setting up 
websites, I just went with a free web hosting account.

Now, I have to say that the set-up works fine and does all we wanted EXCEPT 
that our storage & bandwidth quotas are very low ( I'm not complaining - we pay 
$0 for this!). My original strategy was to set-up all accounts as POP on all 
machines then designate our primary personal computers to download from the 
server and all secondary devices to leave on the server. That allowed us to 
check for new emails on any device but save and store them on our primary 
computers. This worked OK provided our personal computers downloaded frequently 
enough to keep the server relatively empty.

But, as emails became larger, and there were lots more of them, and we took 
longer holidays with our laptop leaving our primary computers switched off at 
home - it became harder to manage and to stop our meagre server allowance 
causing everything to grind to a halt whilst we were overseas.

The best solution FOR US will be to cough up for paid hosting which will give 
us enough storage and bandwidth to set-up all the accounts as IMAP - however, I 
still haven't got round to that yet!

My interim solution - which works fine but involves a little more organisation 
on my part - when I took out an Office 365 subscription I got 1TB of MS 
OneDrive cloud storage which gives me plenty of email storage so I set-up an 
outlook.com email account, accessed only by IMAP, and set-up my email folder 
organisation on that. Emails to my personal account that I want to keep are 
moved to these folders and can then be deleted from the server on my personal 
domain to keep me below the quota.

As you will have now realised, there are many different ways to manage your 
emails and keeps the ones you need whilst not clogging up your quota-limited 
server. The important thing is to come up with a clear plan that suits your 
personal wants/needs and then set-up your various accounts and devices so that 
they all play nice together.


HTH


Cheers


Neil
-- 
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: n...@possumology.com


-Original Message-
From:  on behalf of Julie 
Bedford 
Reply-To: WAMUG 
Date: Wednesday, 20 November 2019 at 01:07
To: WAMUG 
Subject: Re: MAIL BOX

Hi Daniel,

The way you described your mail set up with filing emails, is pretty much 
the same way (if  not so intricate) as the way I do mine, but only with 
selected emails and the rest I leave in the In Box to refer back to when I need 
to.  I sometimes need to refer back to say 2010 - so I know where you are 
coming from.  

After reading your email, perhaps the problem is that I upgraded my iMac a 
while ago to Majove, in order to follow MYOB requirements, but left the 
networked MacPro with ElCapitan (can’t upgrade as you know as MacPro is now too 
old).  So the Mail will be different.  Could this be the problems?  These are 
the only two devices I use. I haven’t any smart boxes, folders or rules either. 
 On the iinet server, I have it set to delete after one month, but I am sure 
that wouldn’t be interfering with my iMac, as it never has done in the past 
with the MacPro.  

I have just gone onto the iinet web server and it does say I’ve exceeded my 
quota.  So assume I need to delete from the server some emails ! It’s getting 
late and will have to sort out tomorrow.

Cheers
Jewels


> On 20 Nov 2019, at 12:46 am, Daniel Kerr  
wrote:
> 
> Hi Julie
> 
> When you create a new folder in Mail, you can choose to create it on the 
“IMAP” selection (eg at iinet), or “On My Mac”. 
> Eg, go to the Mailbox menu and choose “new Mailbox”. You’ll see a drop 
down menu, and the “Location” you want to have this set to “On My Mac”. (It 
doesn’t mean it’s stored as a folder on the actual hard drive you can see 
(well, it kinda is,..but it’s