[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Daniel van Vugt  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #138872|1   |0
is obsolete||

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |FIXED
 Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED

--- Comment #59 from Peter Hutterer  ---
I ended up taking the 20:10 version, thanks.

commit d5b45586753079b1f7149c649919e92727bf3975
Author: Daniel van Vugt <>
Date:   Tue Apr 17 10:43:32 2018 +0800

 Improve responsiveness for Apple Magic Trackpad

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #58 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
I don't mind if we go with
  attachment 138872
or 
  attachment 138891

But it's not my call.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #57 from Maximilian Böhm  ---
I assure you, it makes a difference for me, with 20:10 it feels a bit more
responsive – without any disadvantages, no touches by accident etc., I might be
in illusion but it even feels better than before libinput 1.9. So, as long as
there are no drawbacks, please change it to 20:10. And as it was said numerous
times here: This is a standalone device, sitting on the side of your keyboard,
you’re not hitting it by accident (and even then it does the right thing). It
is featuring the iPhone touch controller which gives it the best touch
processing in the industry.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #55 from Maximilian Böhm  ---
Just compared 60:20 and 20:10: Go with 20:10. Makes a noticeably difference in
‚initial thrust‘ and accuracy.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #54 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
There's really no need to be afraid of 20 as the down threshold. This is a very
high quality piece of equipment with no apparent hardware jitter. It's also a
peripheral designed to be placed in your periphery, so you can't touch it by
accident.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #53 from zi...@hmt.im ---
I'd be willing to test too but I'm not quite sure how to try out the different
settings. Is there a howto somewhere?

The new settings are way better than before (initial bug report vs now) but
when I go back to my trackpad after some inactivity (30 seconds or so) it
sometimes doesn't respond right away. Or it takes a ferw seconds to actually
scroll. Sometimes it feels like I have to horizontally align my index and
middle finger to make it scroll. Feels a bit weird. Sorry for the imprecise
description but I don't really understand which parameters I'm talking about.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #52 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Sorry. I'll get back to this tomorrow if it's not already done.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #51 from Peter Hutterer  ---
Sigh. Maximilian, can you please test this with 60:10, thanks.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #50 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
That might be true, but I'm not looking at this any more. I just tested 20:10
as was suggested.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #49 from Peter Hutterer  ---
> not reported as "down" when finger is still down

Are we talking about accidental releases here? Because that's better fixed by
by just having a higher range, e.g. 60:10. Or are some touches not detected at
all?

60:10 is "safer" than 20:10, simply because it has a higher threshold to
trigger, but a equally low threshold to release, so once a finger is down, it
should stay down.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #48 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Created attachment 138872
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=138872=edit
fix-Apple-Magic-Trackpad-20180417.patch

A fresh patch.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #47 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Just retested the Magic Trackpad after not having used it in a while. While it
is quite usable now (v1.10.4), I can also confirm libinput-measure-touch-size
shows events are going missing (not reported as "down" when finger is still
down). So it could be better...

I have also confirmed that 20:10 solves it.

But I think that once again the palm threshold is also a problem. I was able to
occasionally exceed that with a single finger. So I'll fix that too.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|NEEDINFO

--- Comment #46 from Peter Hutterer  ---
ftr, the sensitivity is too high, not too low :)

Daniel, can you re-spin your patch against git master please, thanks

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Maximilian Böhm  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|FIXED   |---
 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED

--- Comment #45 from Maximilian Böhm  ---
Hello, I‘m following Peter’s appeal in comment 39 to re-open this bug of the
sensitivity would be too low.
It is. ;)
I have tested 20:10 threshold and would recommend this as the new standard. A
tiny bit more responsive for me without any disadvantages. The mistake
heuristic of the Magic Trackpad is outstanding, don’t compare this with cheap
notebook trackpads.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #44 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
I feel it's trying to solve problems that don't really exist, or that the
medicine might be worse than the disease... Using a macOS/Macbook recently
seems to be very sensitive by default and I doubt Apple gets complaints about
those.

But this bug is now fixed, which is great. If I find anything is particularly
problematic in future then I will report separate bugs.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #43 from Peter Hutterer  ---
note that we have two pressure thresholds, one for the finger, one for the
palm. the former is not for palm detection but for inadvertent finger
interaction. This can happen when the user moves quickly over the touchpad when
resetting the finger, or when switching between two and three-finger scrolling.
Or when a thumb is used for pressing on a clickpad. These are all cases that
can occur on an external touchpad as well. and those are the thresholds we set
with this patch.

These were also the original motivation for the finger thresholds (iirc), palm
detection was independent of that.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #42 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
(In reply to Peter Hutterer from comment #35)

> light touches are easy to make inadvertently, so you should have a normal
> contact with the touchpad surface before a touch registers.

That is incorrect. The Apple Magic Trackpad is a standalone device usually
positioned off to the side of one's keyboard, like a mouse. You have to go out
of your way to touch it. It's not like a laptop touchpad.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #41 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Mario, I was not ignoring the discussion. I never received the above messages.
I assumed I would get an email if people had further comments about this bug,
but no emails came. Turns out bugzilla does not automatically subscribe users
from duplicate bugs like other bug trackers do.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #40 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Sorry. Just noticed I was not subscribed to this bug. Only the other bug.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Peter Hutterer  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|ASSIGNED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #39 from Peter Hutterer  ---
pushed, thanks. please re-open if the 60/40 is too high and we need to reduce
it further.

commit f47eb2d796ef459c52394681083d0110d56b4ce3
Author: Mario Di Raimondo <>
Date:   Thu Mar 1 11:52:35 2018 +0100

Fix Apple Magic Trackpad sensitivity

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Mario  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #137637|0   |1
is obsolete||
 Attachment #137686|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #38 from Mario  ---
Created attachment 137716
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=137716=edit
a signoff version of the previous patch with 60:40 thresholds

I hope it is in the proper format. Thanks.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #37 from Peter Hutterer  ---
Mario, please make this a signed-off git-formatted-patch, thanks. I'm gonna go
with 60:40 for now, it's better to reduce the limits when we have to than to go
the other way.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #36 from Mario  ---
Created attachment 137686
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=137686=edit
a patch using a pair of values (60:40) to fix the issue

As I don't see any kind of collaboration here..., I decided to create a
personal patch using a less extreme pair of values (60:40) to fix the issue. I
used it in the last two days and I can say that, for me, it restores the
previous behavior of my Magic Trackpad. Clearly this is a strictly personal
feeling.

The decision is up to Peter. Thanks.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #34 from Mario  ---
Daniel, I agree with Peter. Going in the direction suggested by him, do you
have a different feeling using greater values like 60:40? Can you test them on
a real session?

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #33 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Just barely skimming the surface is still perceptible by the user as a touch.
Thus if the hardware registers that as no longer touching it is an annoyance.

At the kernel level, this device correctly resets ABS_MT_TOUCH_MAJOR/MINOR to
zero on release. And I think that 0 is quite far enough away from 20/10 given
that 20 is a touch perceptible by the user.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #32 from Peter Hutterer  ---
> is about the smallest touch I can produce.

is that a realistic touch though? We don't want to go the other way, detecting
touches that are just barely skimming the surface isn't useful either. Avoiding
those was the original reason for the pressure-based touch detection, a good
middle ground is needed here.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #31 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Created attachment 137637
  --> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=137637=edit
0001-Fix-Apple-Magic-Trackpad-sensitivity.patch

Try this.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #30 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
I tested your suggestion of 60:40 but found it still couldn't sense light
touches with fingertips, so have dropped it to 20:10. Since 20 is about the
smallest touch I can produce.

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #29 from Mario  ---
Daniel, what values are you going to put in the patch. I think we should test
and agree on the proper values before to submit it. IMHO

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #28 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Actually, no. Let's be conservative for now. I'll prepare a patch in a sec...

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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--- Comment #27 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
Instead of adding:

libinput:touchpad:input:b0005v05ACp030E*
 LIBINPUT_ATTR_TOUCH_SIZE_RANGE=:

I think we should fix the root cause, which is an over-general match here:

libinput:touchpad:input:b0003v05ACp*
libinput:touchpad:input:b0005v05ACp*
 LIBINPUT_MODEL_APPLE_TOUCHPAD=1
### Delete the below because the rule matches too many different touchpads ###
 LIBINPUT_ATTR_SIZE_HINT=104x75
 LIBINPUT_ATTR_TOUCH_SIZE_RANGE=150:130
 LIBINPUT_ATTR_PALM_SIZE_THRESHOLD=800
### Whoever owns them should re-add a new more specific rule for theirs ###

Maybe then adding LIBINPUT_ATTR_TOUCH_SIZE_RANGE would not be necessary?

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Daniel van Vugt  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://launchpad.net/bugs/
   ||1751190

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[Wayland-bugs] [Bug 103572] Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic Trackpad stutters, is unresponsive

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Daniel van Vugt  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Libinput: 1.9+: Magic   |Libinput: 1.9+: Apple Magic
   |Trackpad stutters, is   |Trackpad stutters, is
   |unresponsive|unresponsive

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Daniel van Vugt  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||zi...@hmt.im

--- Comment #26 from Daniel van Vugt  ---
*** Bug 103970 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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