[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
The end result of the discussion was to give the developers a way to detect the devices using request.user_agent() to get info from the user agent string, and then the developer can do whatever they want with that information, so the creating of mobile and desktop sites is still completely up to the user, but this just makes it a bit easier.
Re: [web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
I find it unfortunate that it was never implemented. Would it be possible to get a web2pyslice of how to do something like what was the orginal idea? Kenneth The end result of the discussion was to give the developers a way to detect the devices using request.user_agent() to get info from the user agent string, and then the developer can do whatever they want with that information, so the creating of mobile and desktop sites is still completely up to the user, but this just makes it a bit easier.
Re: [web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
On Thursday, July 28, 2011 6:06:43 PM UTC-4, Kenneth wrote: I find it unfortunate that it was never implemented. Would it be possible to get a web2pyslice of how to do something like what was the orginal idea? The mobile device detector has been implemented (in trunk). I don't think any other code has been shown/submitted regarding this issue. If there are other things that make sense to put in the framework, I'm sure they'll be considered. Some of the other ideas may make more sense as plugins, though. Anthony
Re: [web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
It was just browser sniffing to set an is_mobile variable.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
http://www.getskeleton.com/#theFuture
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
I'm new to web2py but since I have an iphone I've been interested in the mobile view/standard view capability of web2py so I've been watching this thread. Could you possibly generalize display devices even more, to even provide per-user or per-session skinning of the web page, storing the display mode/ theme/skin value in the session storage. Then controllers and views could adjust according to their own abilities. (to tell the truth, the mobile-enabled websites really tick me off when there is no way for me to force it back to the standard page.)
Re: [web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
On Jul 26, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rufus rufusvsm...@gmail.com wrote: (to tell the truth, the mobile-enabled websites really tick me off when there is no way for me to force it back to the standard page.) It's a good point. I just visited a site that insisted that my iPad was an iPhone. I've seen sites that allow overriding the choice and getting the normal view.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
I agree. It's very important to not annoy the site visitor by forcing him into one view / solution / experience. Judging by the parallel discussion in the developer group (http:// groups.google.com/group/web2py-developers/browse_thread/thread/ 2056602a6c30af27#) and the corresponding issue request (http:// code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/detail?id=346), I believe a future update will give site developers the ability to serve specific code to specific devices. Which means it will be up to us to give our users these options. So all we will need are better educated web developers. Is there a way to get web2py to do that for us? :) On Jul 26, 6:39 pm, Jonathan Lundell jlund...@pobox.com wrote: On Jul 26, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rufus rufusvsm...@gmail.com wrote: (to tell the truth, the mobile-enabled websites really tick me off when there is no way for me to force it back to the standard page.) I've seen sites that allow overriding the choice and getting the normal view.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
If this functionality is desired, then consider the mentioned patch to be the first of many to come: http://code.google.com/p/web2py/issues/detail?id=346
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
+1 On Friday, July 22, 2011 3:14:02 PM UTC-4, Ross Peoples wrote: As mobile devices get more popular, it is important for many sites and apps to provide both a regular (desktop) site and a mobile site. It is currently difficult to accomplish this with web2py. Plugin jqmobile is great for mobile devices, but doesn't really work for regular web browsers. I am determined to find a way to allow web2py to run a desktop and a mobile version of an app without giving up the ability to byte compile apps. I think I found a solution, but it will require a couple of patches to the web2py core first. This first patch will add is_mobile to the request object. So in your views or controllers, you can just test for a mobile view: if request.is_mobile: response.view = 'default/index.mobile' Of course, you would not be required to do this if my solution for native web2py support works out, as checking for desktop/mobile views would be done automatically. My end goal is to provide an out-of-the-box solution for web2py that will allow you to make your own mobile layout and mobile views without breaking backwards compatibility, while still allowing applications to be byte compiled. My plan is to provide a mobile layout (like plugin_jqmobile's), along with the existing desktop layout. Then, mobile views would have the .mobile extension. If the .mobile view isn't available it would fallback to the standard .html view that is used for desktops. I am posting this to get the community's opinion on including this functionality into web2py before I devote my time to actually developing the solution. Does anyone see any problems with my logic so far, or about the way the mobile sites are implemented alongside the regular sites?
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
Hey Ross, thanks for starting this discussion. And what a timely discussion, considering today's Smashing Magazine article is a roundup of Responsive Design (RD) patterns. (www.smashingmagazine.com) (For those unfamiliar with RD, also check out A List Apart for a great intro: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/responsive-web-design/) I agree that it would be valuable to make it easier to address mobile and desktop environments, and I've been wondering how to work with web2py on this front as well. I notice that in the bottom of base.css for web2py, there is space for RD, which is a good starting point to have one bass CSS file that can work for desktop and mobile environments. I feel this can work well for pages that would serve the same content to desktop and mobile browsers. But I don't know how common that is. One major issue I find is getting a reliable way to detect a mobile environment. I have worked with some people who are attempting to keep a database of browser agents to determine it that way. I would think it's a nightmare to keep that list up to date. I know the folks at http://yiibu.com/ have come up with a possible solution, following the mobile first pattern. But I haven't been able to dive into their code yet. Thus far in sites I've recently developed, I've limited my mobile environment detection to finding out the browser width and using CSS to change the layouts and images. How do you think we can reliably detect a mobile environment?
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
it's been years since i last was doing device detection, but i used the WURFL: http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
I have already submitted a patch to address device detection. It's very simple and uses the user agent string. It may not be the most elegant way to do detection, but it works and it's really fast. I tested the detection using an iPhone and an iPad, but I don't have any other devices to test with. Regardless, it should pick up 99% of mobile devices, if not more. I've also figured out a way to switch to the mobile layout without messing up byte compile. So far the important proof of concept pieces are falling into place perfectly.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
This came out recently: http://www.getskeleton.com It seems to me pretty difficult to make one web app work well on both large and small screens.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
It is difficult to make the same views and everything work on small and large screens. The solution I am proposing is a separate layout for mobile devices based on plugin_jqmobile. Views would use .html versions of the views unless overridden by a .mobile view. This way, simple views don't need to be duplicated, and mobile-specific views are easy to include.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
Ah, I see. That could be interesting. Possible to upload the changes as patches so we could isolate the differences?
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
The changes are all over the place right now. I was hoping to release these as a series of patches to make later testing easier. I submitted the mobile detection already as issue 346. All of the changes since have been to the welcome application, since layout selection is a per app thing. Assuming the detection patch gets accepted into the trunk, I can attach a copy of the welcome app so you can see how the layout switching works. I haven't done any work on the view switching yet, but hopefully I can do it tonight. Once I get that working, see if I can figure out a way to post it so it can get some testing before subitting it to the trunk.
[web2py] Re: DISCUSSION: Dual Desktop/Mobile Functionality
After some hacking on the welcome application, I have finally got this working! I attached a screenshot of a /default/test function I created. That URL uses the test.html view when viewed on the desktop browser, and the same URL uses the test.mobile.html view when viewed using the iPhone Simulator. I chose to go with .mobile.html instead of just .mobile for the extension because it still gives you the syntax highlighting in text editors when it still ends in .html. I hope Massimo accepts my mobile browser detection patch so that I can attach the new welcome application that supports this new desktop/mobile dual mode. I'd certainly like a few testers before I submit a formal patch with the new dual site support. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gN9BQwrdyj8/TiozTFkzVtI/AEI/Fd5eWevYUBE/Screen%252520Shot%2525202011-07-22%252520at%25252010.27.09%252520PM.png
