Re: [webkit-dev] Fonts for WebKit tests on OS X?
On Sat, 2016-03-12 at 17:50 +0100, Frédéric WANG wrote: > This depends on what distro / maintainer prefers. In Debian-base > distro > the fontconfig changes are automatically done for Latin Modern Math, > but > one Arch Linux user told me that their philosophy is rather to always > do > the minimal setup and let users decide if they want to configure more > ; > so the fontconfig change is unlikely to be done by default... Well the Fedora maintainers are the upstream maintainers too, so no point in diverging from fontconfig upstream. If you can get a change upstream, you can get it into all distros too. > I guess that's the easiest solution for Fedora... > > However, in general I think the best would probably for distros to > have > font packages independent from texlive that will just install the > fonts > in more standard system locations and expose them to all apps by > default... Yeah, makes sense. I don't plan to work on this, but I'm happy to add non-texlive font packages to the default install on request, if those packages exist in Fedora and don't require changes in fontconfig configuration. Michael ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fonts for WebKit tests on OS X?
Le 12/03/2016 17:04, Michael Catanzaro a écrit : > Not sure I agree that WebKit should pull in any particular font > package. I'd prefer to just add some math font that's installed by > default. Other apps will want it too. Sure, that would be even better :-) Even if apps do not support the MATH table, they would at least definitely need good unicode coverage for math & tech characters instead of tofu... > But it seems to depend on a bunch of perl and texlive packages: > ... > I'm hesitant to add texlive dependencies. Mmh, yes that sounds bad. I just checked the fonts-lmodern package on Debian (https://packages.debian.org/stretch/fonts-lmodern) and unfortunately it depends on tex-common which correspond probably to all the perl scripts you are asked to install :-( I don't see why tex-common would be needed for packages that only contain Open Type fonts. However, I suspect it's just that maintainers have not considered a use of Latin Modern Math outside LaTeX so far. Besides LuaTeX/XeTeX/ConTeXt the only open source math rendering engines using OpenType MATH table are WebKit- and Gecko- based applications (although Khaled Hosny plans to add support for this table in GtkMathView and use it for math rendering in LibreOffice). > Also, I don't see it in Font > Viewer, so I guess it requires the fontconfig change suggested by that > wiki page to work, and that would require coordination with fontconfig > upstream. I suspect there is some good reason that texlive fonts are not > available to applications by default? This depends on what distro / maintainer prefers. In Debian-base distro the fontconfig changes are automatically done for Latin Modern Math, but one Arch Linux user told me that their philosophy is rather to always do the minimal setup and let users decide if they want to configure more ; so the fontconfig change is unlikely to be done by default... > Perhaps the easiest solution is to do nothing, and wait for a new STIX > release? I guess that's the easiest solution for Fedora... However, in general I think the best would probably for distros to have font packages independent from texlive that will just install the fonts in more standard system locations and expose them to all apps by default... -- Frédéric Wang signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fonts for WebKit tests on OS X?
On Sat, 2016-03-12 at 10:27 +0100, Frédéric WANG wrote: > So it's relatively easy for users to install the fonts. > Ideally, the Latin Modern package should be a dependency of > WebKitGTK+, > which I think I (or Martin Robinson) already asked in the past to > some > distro maintainers when we added Latin Modern Math to the test > environment. Not sure I agree that WebKit should pull in any particular font package. I'd prefer to just add some math font that's installed by default. Other apps will want it too. > In the case of Fedora, the good news is that STIX is installed by > default in the normal setup. The bad news is that the current 1.1 > release of STIX has many bugs making it bad for math layout albeit > not > as bad as with the obsolete version shipped in OS X. However, I'm > confident the Fedora package will be updated to version 2 when it is > released. > > See (*) for more details, which also gives an overview of the > situation > in other operating systems. Given the lack of availability of math > fonts, workarounds have been considered but they add burden for each > actor: I considered adding texlive-lm-math to the list of packages installed by default in Fedora. This takes about two minutes to change, so it's normally no problem at all. But it seems to depend on a bunch of perl and texlive packages: perl-Digest, perl-Digest-MD5, perl-Filter, perl-Text-Unidecode, perl- Tk, perl-XML-XPath, perl-encoding, perl-open, texlive-base, texlive- hyphen-base, texlive-kpathsea, texlive-kpathsea-bin, texlive-kpathsea- lib, texlive-metafont, texlive-metafont-bin, texlive-tetex, texlive- tetex-bin, texlive-texlive.infra, texlive-texlive.infra-bin I'm hesitant to add texlive dependencies. Also, I don't see it in Font Viewer, so I guess it requires the fontconfig change suggested by that wiki page to work, and that would require coordination with fontconfig upstream. I suspect there is some good reason that texlive fonts are not available to applications by default? Perhaps the easiest solution is to do nothing, and wait for a new STIX release? Michael ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fonts for WebKit tests on OS X?
Le 12/03/2016 02:01, Michael Catanzaro a écrit : > Fred, if these fonts are not preinstalled, is MathML broken for users > in practice? Yes, math fonts are fundamental as long as you start using relative complex math (integrals, big fence & radicals etc) or deliver documents to people used to high rendering quality (e.g. scientists familiar to LaTeX). In the screenshot of my initial message you can see some obvious problems like horizontal brace not stretching or ridiculously small integral... > If so, that would be a good argument for installing the fonts by default. Well that's what I believe too, but apparently OS vendors have not been convinced so far. I hope that can change for Apple when WebKit has better math rendering... I'd already be happy if there is a simple way to use the fonts for Mac testing, but otherwise I guess we should just focus on the GTK port for now and continue to mark MathML tests as failing on other ports... > That's kinda my concern with this Latin Modern Math font we're using > for the GTK port. We're not shipping that in Fedora and I doubt other > distros are either, so if it's needed for MathML to work well, it's > broken for users in practice. Most (all?) Linux distros have TeXLive packages which include Latin Modern Math, XITS Math (a fork of STIX to fix existing bugs), and more math fonts. So it's relatively easy for users to install the fonts. Ideally, the Latin Modern package should be a dependency of WebKitGTK+, which I think I (or Martin Robinson) already asked in the past to some distro maintainers when we added Latin Modern Math to the test environment. In the case of Fedora, the good news is that STIX is installed by default in the normal setup. The bad news is that the current 1.1 release of STIX has many bugs making it bad for math layout albeit not as bad as with the obsolete version shipped in OS X. However, I'm confident the Fedora package will be updated to version 2 when it is released. See (*) for more details, which also gives an overview of the situation in other operating systems. Given the lack of availability of math fonts, workarounds have been considered but they add burden for each actor: 1) Web Engines: add fallback mechanisms e.g. scale transforms to stretch the base size of operators (done in Gecko) or drawing them directly with graphic functions (done in WebKit for radicals) etc However, people used to high rendering quality find this kind of fallback particularly ugly. Other people proposed to ship the big math fonts in the browsers, which I believe would be sad... 2) Users: install fonts themselves or (specifically for mobile platforms) install some browser addon providing them as Web fonts. 3) Authors: provide the math fonts as Web fonts on each website, ebook, Web app etc (*) https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/MathML_Project/Fonts -- Frédéric Wang signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
