Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Jer Noble]

On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:17 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer  wrote:

> Is  -webkit-cursor-visibility just for video ? If so, I am personally very 
> much in favor of such a selector. It's a common feature of full-screen video 
> players, see e.g. 
> http://www.longtailvideo.com/support/forums/jw-player/bug-reports/31053/mouse-cursor-does-not-disappear-in-fullscreen-mode/
>  
> orhttp://forum.brightcove.com/t5/General-Development/Hide-Mouse-Pointer-in-Fullscreen/td-p/7128
>  .

Not necessarily, though it's first use case is for the  element in full 
screen mode.  I can imagine that full screen  apps could use it as well.

> Here's a discussion by Chrome users: 
> http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/Hd7AZRWejpk .
> 
> It would be nice to get this through the CSS group quickly and implement 
> without the prefix.

Agreed!

-Jer

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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Silvia Pfeiffer]

Is  -webkit-cursor-visibility just for video ? If so, I am personally very
much in favor of such a selector. It's a common feature of full-screen
video players, see e.g.
http://www.longtailvideo.com/support/forums/jw-player/bug-reports/31053/mouse-cursor-does-not-disappear-in-fullscreen-mode/or
http://forum.brightcove.com/t5/General-Development/Hide-Mouse-Pointer-in-Fullscreen/td-p/7128
 .

Here's a discussion by Chrome users:
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/Hd7AZRWejpk .

It would be nice to get this through the CSS group quickly and implement
without the prefix.

Silvia.


On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Jer Noble  wrote:

> In an effort to improve the user-experience of watching videos in full
> screen mode, I have created a patch which adds a new CSS style attribute:
> -webkit-cursor-visibility. When set to "auto-hide", this rule would change
> the cursor type to "none" after a few seconds of inactivity. UAs could then
> add this rule to their UA full screen style sheets for full screened video
> elements, but this rule can be overridden by site authors to handle hiding
> the cursor (or not) themselves.  Sites which do not hide the cursor during
> playback in full screen mode (e.g. YouTube) would get this behavior for
> free, and sites which do (e.g. vimeo) can continue to explicitly hide the
> mouse cursor when hiding their custom controls.
>
> This new attribute is not currently hidden behind a feature flag.
>
> We are at the very initial stages of proposing this attribute to the
> CSSWG, but have already incorporated feedback from some of the WG members.
>
> Please take a look at the associated bug, if you're interested:
>  Default mouse cursor
> behavior should be auto-hide for full screen video with custom controls
>
> -Jer
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Ryosuke Niwa]

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:00 PM, James Robinson  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>>>
>>> Could you add either build or runtime flag?
>>>
>>>
>>> I most definitely could.  But are there any ports who would disable the
>>> flag?  (Honestly asking, here.)  If not, adding a feature flag may be more
>>> trouble than its worth.
>>>
>> As everyone else has already stated, it's a good practice to wrap new
> features behind a build flag so that we may disable the feature as needed.
> e.g. your proposal needs to be modified
>

MAY need to be modified significantly.


> significantly before it can be standardized. It'll be bad if browsers with
> a faster release cycle (e.g. Chrome) ended up shipping this property while
> such a discussion is taking place.
>
> The general rule of thumb is to have a build flag at least until the
> specification reaches CR.
>
>> In chromium we would like the ability to monitor and, when appropriate,
>> disable vendor-prefixed non-standard CSS properties.  I think it's a bad
>> idea to assume that by default all ports will want to expose non-standard
>> API to the web platform without at least considering the situation and
>> having a plan to remove at least the prefixed version.  Please add a flag
>> and, for bonus points, hook up FeatureObserver so we can monitor usage of
>> this property.
>>
>>
>> Sure thing.
>>
>
> Thanks!
>
> - R. Niwa
>
>
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Ryosuke Niwa]

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:

>
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:00 PM, James Robinson  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>>
>> Could you add either build or runtime flag?
>>
>>
>> I most definitely could.  But are there any ports who would disable the
>> flag?  (Honestly asking, here.)  If not, adding a feature flag may be more
>> trouble than its worth.
>>
> As everyone else has already stated, it's a good practice to wrap new
features behind a build flag so that we may disable the feature as needed.
e.g. your proposal needs to be modified significantly before it can be
standardized. It'll be bad if browsers with a faster release cycle (e.g.
Chrome) ended up shipping this property while such a discussion is taking
place.

The general rule of thumb is to have a build flag at least until the
specification reaches CR.

> In chromium we would like the ability to monitor and, when appropriate,
> disable vendor-prefixed non-standard CSS properties.  I think it's a bad
> idea to assume that by default all ports will want to expose non-standard
> API to the web platform without at least considering the situation and
> having a plan to remove at least the prefixed version.  Please add a flag
> and, for bonus points, hook up FeatureObserver so we can monitor usage of
> this property.
>
>
> Sure thing.
>

Thanks!

- R. Niwa
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Edward O'Connor]

Hi Adam,

You wrote:

> Have you proposed this feature to the relevant standards working
> group?

Yup! Tantek's gathering proposals for CSS4 UI features on the CSSWG
wiki; this proposal is on the list there.


Ted
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Benjamin Poulain]

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:
>
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>
> Could you add either build or runtime flag?
>
>
> I most definitely could.  But are there any ports who would disable the
> flag?  (Honestly asking, here.)  If not, adding a feature flag may be more
> trouble than its worth.
>

In my opinion, it is a good practice to have build flag until a feature is
ready for prime time. In WebKit, we make no assumption on when anyone ship
anything.

Benjamin
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Jer Noble]

On Mar 4, 2013, at 5:00 PM, James Robinson  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:
> 
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
> 
>> Could you add either build or runtime flag?
> 
> I most definitely could.  But are there any ports who would disable the flag? 
>  (Honestly asking, here.)  If not, adding a feature flag may be more trouble 
> than its worth.
> 
> In chromium we would like the ability to monitor and, when appropriate, 
> disable vendor-prefixed non-standard CSS properties.  I think it's a bad idea 
> to assume that by default all ports will want to expose non-standard API to 
> the web platform without at least considering the situation and having a plan 
> to remove at least the prefixed version.  Please add a flag and, for bonus 
> points, hook up FeatureObserver so we can monitor usage of this property.

Sure thing.  I'll ask around on IRC about FeatureObserver.

-Jer

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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Adam Barth]

Have you proposed this feature to the relevant standards working group?

Adam


On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:
> In an effort to improve the user-experience of watching videos in full screen 
> mode, I have created a patch which adds a new CSS style attribute: 
> -webkit-cursor-visibility. When set to "auto-hide", this rule would change 
> the cursor type to "none" after a few seconds of inactivity. UAs could then 
> add this rule to their UA full screen style sheets for full screened video 
> elements, but this rule can be overridden by site authors to handle hiding 
> the cursor (or not) themselves.  Sites which do not hide the cursor during 
> playback in full screen mode (e.g. YouTube) would get this behavior for free, 
> and sites which do (e.g. vimeo) can continue to explicitly hide the mouse 
> cursor when hiding their custom controls.
>
> This new attribute is not currently hidden behind a feature flag.
>
> We are at the very initial stages of proposing this attribute to the CSSWG, 
> but have already incorporated feedback from some of the WG members.
>
> Please take a look at the associated bug, if you're interested:
>  Default mouse cursor 
> behavior should be auto-hide for full screen video with custom controls
>
> -Jer
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[James Robinson]

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:

>
> On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>
> Could you add either build or runtime flag?
>
>
> I most definitely could.  But are there any ports who would disable the
> flag?  (Honestly asking, here.)  If not, adding a feature flag may be more
> trouble than its worth.
>

In chromium we would like the ability to monitor and, when appropriate,
disable vendor-prefixed non-standard CSS properties.  I think it's a bad
idea to assume that by default all ports will want to expose non-standard
API to the web platform without at least considering the situation and
having a plan to remove at least the prefixed version.  Please add a flag
and, for bonus points, hook up FeatureObserver so we can monitor usage of
this property.

- James


>
> -Jer
>
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Jer Noble]

On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:

> Could you add either build or runtime flag?

I most definitely could.  But are there any ports who would disable the flag?  
(Honestly asking, here.)  If not, adding a feature flag may be more trouble 
than its worth.

-Jer
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Re: [webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Ryosuke Niwa]

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jer Noble  wrote:

> In an effort to improve the user-experience of watching videos in full
> screen mode, I have created a patch which adds a new CSS style attribute:
> -webkit-cursor-visibility. When set to "auto-hide", this rule would change
> the cursor type to "none" after a few seconds of inactivity. UAs could then
> add this rule to their UA full screen style sheets for full screened video
> elements, but this rule can be overridden by site authors to handle hiding
> the cursor (or not) themselves.  Sites which do not hide the cursor during
> playback in full screen mode (e.g. YouTube) would get this behavior for
> free, and sites which do (e.g. vimeo) can continue to explicitly hide the
> mouse cursor when hiding their custom controls.
>
> This new attribute is not currently hidden behind a feature flag.
>

Could you add either build or runtime flag?

- R. Niwa
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[webkit-dev] New web-facing CSS feature: -webkit-cursor-visibility: auto-hide

[Jer Noble]

In an effort to improve the user-experience of watching videos in full screen 
mode, I have created a patch which adds a new CSS style attribute: 
-webkit-cursor-visibility. When set to "auto-hide", this rule would change the 
cursor type to "none" after a few seconds of inactivity. UAs could then add 
this rule to their UA full screen style sheets for full screened video 
elements, but this rule can be overridden by site authors to handle hiding the 
cursor (or not) themselves.  Sites which do not hide the cursor during playback 
in full screen mode (e.g. YouTube) would get this behavior for free, and sites 
which do (e.g. vimeo) can continue to explicitly hide the mouse cursor when 
hiding their custom controls.

This new attribute is not currently hidden behind a feature flag.

We are at the very initial stages of proposing this attribute to the CSSWG, but 
have already incorporated feedback from some of the WG members.

Please take a look at the associated bug, if you're interested: 
 Default mouse cursor behavior 
should be auto-hide for full screen video with custom controls

-Jer
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