Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: I'd like to r+ https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96335, but wanted to give a heads up in case anyone wants to object. Every native platform that has scrollbars does *not* move focus when you click on them. Every browser engine, except Gecko, moves focus when you click on scrollbars *unless* you're clicking on the viewport scrollbar (e.g. clicking on the scrollbar of an scrollable div that fills the viewport will move focus). Gecko does not move focus when you click on any scrollbar unless you are clicking on the scrollbar of a form control (e.g. textarea) scrollbar. I'd like to change our behavior to either match Gecko or go fully native and never move focus when clicking on scrollbars. The latter sounds better to me, but either solution would satisfy me. Any strong opinions/objections? We've already discussed this on whatwg and the feedback has been that this is up to browser vendors to match the platform conventions: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-October/037676.html. Is our current behavior the same as the every browser engine, except Gecko behavior described above? I like the idea of being more like native control behavior. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: ... Is our current behavior the same as the every browser engine, except Gecko behavior described above? Yes. - Native *never* moves focus, even if the control is focusable (ex. the wireless networks list in OS X Preferences.app) - Trident, WebKit and Presto blur the activeElement when clicking a scrollbar even if the element with the scrollbar is not focusable. This results in the body being focused. - Gecko *only* blurs the activeElement if the element with the scrollbar is focusable (ex. overflow div + tabindex). That is, Gecko will only blurs if the focus can be transfered to the scrollbar owner. I like the idea of being more like native control behavior. I agree. I'll update the patch to match Gecko's mostly native, but web friendly behavior. - E ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@chromium.orgwrote: On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I like the idea of being more like native control behavior. I agree. I'll update the patch to match Gecko's mostly native, but web friendly behavior. Sounds like we all agree here. The separate question is whether we should avoid moving focus even when you click on the scrollbar of a focusable element. That fully matches native, but doesn't match any existing browser. Maciej, would you prefer that? I'm on the fence and could easily be swayed either direction. In the meantime, Elliott's patch matching the Gecko behavior seems uncontroversial. I'll r+ once it's ready for review. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
It seems worth noting over here that on the whatwg discussion for this, native really means Mac and Ubuntu. Notably it's not clear whether this matches Windows, which is 90+% of the userbase for Chrome. I am a little nervous making blanket statements like this is native behavior when we're not sure whether it is for such large user groups. I'm not sure how to test this on Windows, though. Gecko's behavior makes me a little less worried than the never move focus behavior in the absence of data to answer the above question. PK ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@chromium.orgwrote: It seems worth noting over here that on the whatwg discussion for this, native really means Mac and Ubuntu. Notably it's not clear whether this matches Windows, which is 90+% of the userbase for Chrome. I am a little nervous making blanket statements like this is native behavior when we're not sure whether it is for such large user groups. I'm not sure how to test this on Windows, though. We know Windows doesn't move focus when you click on the scrollbar of the top-level window (e.g. if something inside the window has focus, it doesn't clear focus when you click on the scrollbar), right? We just don't know of a way of testing nested, native scrollbars on Windows. So, I still think it's accurate to call this the Windows native scrollbar behavior. FWIW, see the related http://crbug.com/6759http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=6759 . Gecko's behavior makes me a little less worried than the never move focus behavior in the absence of data to answer the above question. PK ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
I'd like to r+ https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96335, but wanted to give a heads up in case anyone wants to object. Every native platform that has scrollbars does *not* move focus when you click on them. Every browser engine, except Gecko, moves focus when you click on scrollbars *unless* you're clicking on the viewport scrollbar (e.g. clicking on the scrollbar of an scrollable div that fills the viewport will move focus). Gecko does not move focus when you click on any scrollbar unless you are clicking on the scrollbar of a form control (e.g. textarea) scrollbar. I'd like to change our behavior to either match Gecko or go fully native and never move focus when clicking on scrollbars. The latter sounds better to me, but either solution would satisfy me. Any strong opinions/objections? We've already discussed this on whatwg and the feedback has been that this is up to browser vendors to match the platform conventions: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-October/037676.html . Ojan ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: Every native platform that has scrollbars does *not* move focus when you click on them. Every browser engine, except Gecko, moves focus when you click on scrollbars *unless* you're clicking on the viewport scrollbar (e.g. clicking on the scrollbar of an scrollable div that fills the viewport will move focus). Gecko does not move focus when you click on any scrollbar unless you are clicking on the scrollbar of a form control (e.g. textarea) scrollbar. I'd like to change our behavior to either match Gecko or go fully native and never move focus when clicking on scrollbars. The latter sounds better to me, but either solution would satisfy me. Is there rationale for Gecko's behavior? It sounds a bit strange. PK ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@chromium.orgwrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: Every native platform that has scrollbars does *not* move focus when you click on them. Every browser engine, except Gecko, moves focus when you click on scrollbars *unless* you're clicking on the viewport scrollbar (e.g. clicking on the scrollbar of an scrollable div that fills the viewport will move focus). Gecko does not move focus when you click on any scrollbar unless you are clicking on the scrollbar of a form control (e.g. textarea) scrollbar. I'd like to change our behavior to either match Gecko or go fully native and never move focus when clicking on scrollbars. The latter sounds better to me, but either solution would satisfy me. Is there rationale for Gecko's behavior? It sounds a bit strange. Not that I know of. I haven't talked to anyone at Gecko about it though. In theory, I could conceive of the web depending on this. My preference would be to make all scrollbars not move focus and see if there is a web compat dependency since that solution is simpler and more consistent. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@chromium.orgwrote: Is there rationale for Gecko's behavior? It sounds a bit strange. Not that I know of. I haven't talked to anyone at Gecko about it though. Might be nice to try and find someone appropriate there to ping. Surprised the topic didn't come up as path of the whatwg discussions you mentioned (since it's usually good to understand why the world is the way it is as a starting point). PK ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] moving focus when clicking on scrollbars
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@chromium.orgwrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@chromium.orgwrote: Is there rationale for Gecko's behavior? It sounds a bit strange. Not that I know of. I haven't talked to anyone at Gecko about it though. Might be nice to try and find someone appropriate there to ping. Surprised the topic didn't come up as path of the whatwg discussions you mentioned (since it's usually good to understand why the world is the way it is as a starting point). roc clarified that the Mozilla behavior is to move focus if the element is focusable. I'm OK with changing our behavior to match Gecko since that's a strict improvement in my view and it's arguable whether we should or shouldn't move focus when you click in the scrollbar of a mouse-focusable element. To be clear, the only change from our current behavior would be that when you click on a scrollbar of an element that is not mouse-focusable, we wouldn't move focus. This seems clearly superior to our current behavior and matches what we do for viewport scrollbars. Whether we should extend this to scrollbars of mouse-focusable elements can be a separate discussion. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
