Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On 23 Apr 2006, at 15:52, L. Caballero wrote: Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? I would like to know the opinion the experts. Better off asking in webobjects-deploy I think. I use 5.3.1 in a deployment setting. P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006? I put in another vote for the open source rumours...out of belligerence rather than expectation. Cheers, Graham. -- Graham J Lee Oxford University's UNIX Expert As seen in MacWorld UK http://iamleeg.blogspot.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On Apr 23, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Paul D Yu wrote: Agree. The sales were facilitated by WebObjects as I said in the lines below. But WebObjects does not DRIVE the $1.5 Billion in music and iPod related sales. Paul It is true that WebObjects does not drive music sales at Apple. On the other hand, when the iTunes music store was announced, the response was that it came out sooner than people in the industry expected and it was surprisingly elegant for the first version of a new kind of application. So, what might have happened if Apple did not have people who knew WebObjects to work on the iTunes music store? If the store came out 6 months or a year later than it did, would the rest of the industry have waited for Apple? Would the press or the market analysts have been forgiving? If the interface to iTunes had looked like a hacked-together, behemoth MFC application, would the industry have cut Apple a break and said that lots of companies do inelegant software and so that must be ok? If the iTunes store had not scaled and if there had been massive problems as we kept adding 0's onto the number of the songs sold, would they have said that was acceptable, everyone has growing pains? I think that the real reason the iTunes music store works and the reason it succeeds in driving music and iPod sales is that there are some amazingly smart people running gthe iTunes store. Which development tool did they select to use? - ray On Apr 23, 2006, at 7:51 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Paul D. Yu wrote: How much of the Music sales were a result of WebObjects? Not very much... Paul, The iTunes music store is written in WebObjects - so all! Ken ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/kiddyr% 40apple.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Ray Kiddy wrote: On Apr 23, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Paul D Yu wrote: Agree. The sales were facilitated by WebObjects as I said in the lines below. But WebObjects does not DRIVE the $1.5 Billion in music and iPod related sales. Paul It is true that WebObjects does not drive music sales at Apple. On the other hand, when the iTunes music store was announced, the response was that it came out sooner than people in the industry expected and it was surprisingly elegant for the first version of a new kind of application. So, what might have happened if Apple did not have people who knew WebObjects to work on the iTunes music store? If the store came out 6 months or a year later than it did, would the rest of the industry have waited for Apple? Would the press or the market analysts have been forgiving? If the interface to iTunes had looked like a hacked-together, behemoth MFC application, would the industry have cut Apple a break and said that lots of companies do inelegant software and so that must be ok? If the iTunes store had not scaled and if there had been massive problems as we kept adding 0's onto the number of the songs sold, would they have said that was acceptable, everyone has growing pains? I think that the real reason the iTunes music store works and the reason it succeeds in driving music and iPod sales is that there are some amazingly smart people running gthe iTunes store. Which development tool did they select to use? Let me guess! Let me guess! Um, was it Struts and Hibernate and Spring and Maven? :-P Chuck -- Coming in late 2006 - an introduction to web applications using WebObjects and Xcode http://www.global-village.net/wointro Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On 24 Apr 2006, at 17:19, Ray Kiddy wrote: It is true that WebObjects does not drive music sales at Apple. On the other hand, when the iTunes music store was announced, the response was that it came out sooner than people in the industry expected and it was surprisingly elegant for the first version of a new kind of application. So, what might have happened if Apple did not have people who knew WebObjects to work on the iTunes music store? If the store came out 6 months or a year later than it did, would the rest of the industry have waited for Apple? Would the press or the market analysts have been forgiving? If the interface to iTunes had looked like a hacked-together, behemoth MFC application, would the industry have cut Apple a break and said that lots of companies do inelegant software and so that must be ok? If the iTunes store had not scaled and if there had been massive problems as we kept adding 0's onto the number of the songs sold, would they have said that was acceptable, everyone has growing pains? I think that the real reason the iTunes music store works and the reason it succeeds in driving music and iPod sales is that there are some amazingly smart people running gthe iTunes store. Which development tool did they select to use? Hmm. I have this brilliant idea for a role for WebObjects... Let's call it Mission Critical Custom Applications. Of course, we'd have to think up some new way to sell such an innovative concept. Paul (I'm English, we have automatic sarcasm tags) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Paul Lynch wrote: Hmm. I have this brilliant idea for a role for WebObjects... Let's call it Mission Critical Custom Applications. Of course, we'd have to think up some new way to sell such an innovative concept. It could be called ... wait for it ... The nExt Way :-) Aloha, Art ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
How about Rumpelstiltzkenology ! :) Ken On Apr 24, 2006, at 3:28 PM, Art Isbell wrote: On Apr 24, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Paul Lynch wrote: Hmm. I have this brilliant idea for a role for WebObjects... Let's call it Mission Critical Custom Applications. Of course, we'd have to think up some new way to sell such an innovative concept. It could be called ... wait for it ... The nExt Way :-) Aloha, Art ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
Chuck Hill wrote: On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Ray Kiddy wrote: I think that the real reason the iTunes music store works and the reason it succeeds in driving music and iPod sales is that there are some amazingly smart people running gthe iTunes store. Which development tool did they select to use? Let me guess! Let me guess! Um, was it Struts and Hibernate and Spring and Maven? :-P Chuck That was the other guys with less than 5% market share. Or was that the guys that went out of business? -arturo ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? I would like to know the opinion the experts. Thanks, L. Caballero P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On Apr 23, 2006, at 7:52 AM, L. Caballero wrote:Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? hi-We deploy 5.3.1 WO apps in production on Mac OS X Server/PPC.But, I don't know about Windows, etc. for the 5.3.1 version.There is no (released) Mac OS X Server/Intel so you can't deploy to that (yet).P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006?:-)thanks!--lanceVVI ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On 23-Apr-06, at 11:15 AM, Ken Anderson wrote: L, You ask a lot of 'is WO dying' questions on this list. Why such concerns? I deploy apps under 5.3.1 under OS X 10.4.5 (currently). I also know plenty of others that do. Ken In general, I get the feeling that WebObjects is used most by those who don't care very much about who else is using it :-) Oh, and we are currently we have apps deployed in 5.3.1 on Tiger, 5.2.3 on Panther, and 5.2.1 on Jaguar. On Apr 23, 2006, at 10:52 AM, L. Caballero wrote: Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? I would like to know the opinion the experts. Thanks, L. Caballero P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006? Personally, I want the return of Jamba Juice and to win a Stump The Experts T-Shirt at WWDC 2006 -- ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-defer-ous' adj. producing or containing code site: http://www.codeferous.com blog: http://david.codeferous.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
A couple of other things. First, please start new messages rather than replying to old ones and changing the subject - it keeps the old message ID and therefore, the same thread (both in mail apps and the archives). As far as WWDC is concerned, I don't anticipate much WO related activity this year. Last year was the big announcement that WO was being rolled into the standard toolset and would no longer be sold. Ken On Apr 23, 2006, at 10:52 AM, L. Caballero wrote: Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? I would like to know the opinion the experts. Thanks, L. Caballero P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
So that in the last change of development platform, we lost much money. And it is important to know the reality, the problems with the clients always cost money. In Spain and Europe in general, WO and Apple are not a development platform very used. I hope that the question is not bothering to anybody. Thanks, L. Caballero El 23/04/2006, a las 17:15, Ken Anderson escribió: L, You ask a lot of 'is WO dying' questions on this list. Why such concerns? I deploy apps under 5.3.1 under OS X 10.4.5 (currently). I also know plenty of others that do. Ken On Apr 23, 2006, at 10:52 AM, L. Caballero wrote: Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? I would like to know the opinion the experts. Thanks, L. Caballero P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
You really have to decide whether adopting WO is worth it to you or not. Factors that should be considered are: - Investment in some other technology - Need to have the power of WO - Lack of trained WO engineers (especially if Apple keeps hiring them!) How big is the project you want to use WO with? Do you have anyone on staff that knows it? What are your reasons for choosing it? I think people on this list could help out more if you went into some of the specifics. The only thing that bothers me personally is that I would rather not have other people reading this list think WO is dying. It really isn't, and Apple pretty much said so by integrating it into their standard development platform. By doing that, they're voicing their support for the long term (in my opinion). It takes a lot more to kill a part of your development environment than a standalone product. Ken On Apr 23, 2006, at 12:19 PM, L. Caballero wrote: So that in the last change of development platform, we lost much money. And it is important to know the reality, the problems with the clients always cost money. In Spain and Europe in general, WO and Apple are not a development platform very used. I hope that the question is not bothering to anybody. Thanks, L. Caballero El 23/04/2006, a las 17:15, Ken Anderson escribió: L, You ask a lot of 'is WO dying' questions on this list. Why such concerns? I deploy apps under 5.3.1 under OS X 10.4.5 (currently). I also know plenty of others that do. Ken On Apr 23, 2006, at 10:52 AM, L. Caballero wrote: Ever since it has been announced, I have the impression that is little being used. It is certain, or it is only an impression? I would like to know the opinion the experts. Thanks, L. Caballero P.D.: We want to see the news or surprises in WWDC 2006? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On Apr 23, 2006, at 9:19 AM, Ken Anderson wrote:As far as WWDC is concerned, I don't anticipate much WO related activity this year. Last year was the big announcement that WO was being rolled into the standard toolset and would no longer be sold. hi-As far as *deployment* goes ...http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/4/22/3712some bigger iron like a 8-way Xserve with PCI-Express bus and updated memory would be a nice deployment config. to see at WWDC! (I can't wait :-))thanks!--lanceVVI ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On 23 Apr 2006, at 17:26, Ken Anderson wrote: The only thing that bothers me personally is that I would rather not have other people reading this list think WO is dying. It really isn't, and Apple pretty much said so by integrating it into their standard development platform. By doing that, they're voicing their support for the long term (in my opinion). It takes a lot more to kill a part of your development environment than a standalone product. And, let's not forget, a very high percentage of Apple sales (iTMS, AppleStore online and .Mac) is taken through WebObjects applications. We're in Europe, we use WebObjects. Other junk is too painful to use. We are running 5.3 on our in-house servers, which means a couple of applications, and all new test sites. Most of our sites that run outside are on Apple hardware, and they are on 5.2, because that's what we last issued maintenance releases under. All of these will upgrade to 5.3 in time, probably when we next need to issue a significant upgrade. One major site (running about 20 or so applications, at a rough guess), is running on some alien operating system (Windows 2000), we are developing new applications for them on 5.3 and running on 5.2. One of the points that the OP misses is that applications have a life cycle, and apps developed 7 years ago will still run; you may or may not choose to upgrade them to latest releases until and unless maintenance support becomes an issue. Our oldest site under current maintenance was developed in 1997 or 1998 (I forget), and the last major upgrade was in 2002 - and that's on 5.2. The next oldest under current maintenance by us was started in 1999, upgraded from 4.5 to 5.2 last year, and will probably be on 5.3 sometime later this year. If all we were doing was creating new applications, then perhaps some doom laden questions about 5.3 uptake might be considered pertinent; but that's not what we (all) do. Paul ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Paul D. Yu wrote: How much of the Music sales were a result of WebObjects? Not very much... Paul, The iTunes music store is written in WebObjects - so all! Ken ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: OT: Is used WO 5.3.1 in production (deployment)?
Agree. The sales were facilitated by WebObjects as I said in the lines below. But WebObjects does not DRIVE the $1.5 Billion in music and iPod related sales. Paul On Apr 23, 2006, at 7:51 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Paul D. Yu wrote: How much of the Music sales were a result of WebObjects? Not very much... Paul, The iTunes music store is written in WebObjects - so all! Ken ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
