from:"Michael Wheatland"

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Narayan Aras narayana...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi Michael,

 This wiki is not necessary for these pages, as the advantages for each target 
 customer segment are already identified.
 Further, they are GREATLY elaborated on the current website page.

I still think we need to explore the use cases as well as having
information on the specific features of the LibreOffice software. IMO
focussing on the way people use LibreOffice rather than the features
of the product itself is important on these pages.
Have a look at the wiki page and you will see what I mean.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Need for a means of checking out content and marking it as being worked on

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Narayan Aras narayana...@hotmail.com wrote:
 This is not a question of how big your change is, but the possibility of its 
 being overwritten!
 AFAIK unlike a VCS, Silverstripe is unable to detect/avoid check-in conflicts.

 That's why I suggested manual setting of a flag to tip off anyone who wants 
 to edit the same page.

 Regards,
 Narayan


I agree that we need a way of identifying conflicting concurrent editing.
A 'flag' or 'checkout' is usually how this is done.

Maybe Christian can shed some light on the native functions of
Silverstripe for checking out content to ensure these conflicts don't
occur and others cannot edit the same content at the same time.
I have never come across a CMS that is unable to do this, so I am sure
there will be some kind of native protection for concurrent editing.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Work on the Why? pages

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:59 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 I've unpublished the pages.

I would love if someone would comment on the suggested page content on
the wiki page that I have setup for developing these pages.
These pages are important for marketing the product for specific
purposes and tasks related to each target market.

Again, instead of working in different directions and then having a
competition to see which is selected, lets get onto the wiki, where we
can collaborate to create some content which exceeds anyone's ability
when working alone.
The people who have the skills building websites are here and the
website team has the authority and mandate to create and improve the
site without any more approvals/proposals to any other part of the
community, as long as we get a consensus within the community about
any changes. The whole community owns the website, not any one
individual or group, but it is our responsibility to compromise and
collaborate with everyone to achieve a great outcome.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Development/Content/Why

Michael Wheatland
P.S. David, I would suggest you ask if there is any objections before
swooping in and changing/unpublishing someone else's work. Especially
if this is based on one, albeit valued and respected, opinion.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Work on the Why? pages

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 2/3/11 3:37 PM, Michael Wheatland wrote:

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Development/Content/Why

 As I am not very familiar with wikis, and I do not have the why pages
 content at hand, may I ask someone to copy that content and paste it into a
 document, and send me the document off list?

 I need a document on my desktop, and I will elaborate on that. Thanks.

There is no agreed content for these pages yet. The wiki page is to
establish an outline and develop content for these pages.

I feel it is important to prompt potential new end users what they
could do if they use LibreOffice. These pages will allow that, while
pointing to the 'feature page' which outlines how they do it.

I will add your ideas around TCO, ease of migration, stability,
robustness, deployment to the page.
If you wish to suggest any more ideas for the 'Why' pages ie. reasons
that end users would want to use LibreOffice, you can post your ideas
here and I can add them to the wiki page.

Once we have all of the ideas developed I will put them out for review
before publishing.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Work on the Why? pages

Still no further contributions to the collaboration on the wiki.
As Italo has said, we are happy that the site is up, and there is no
need to rush, but we do need to gain at least some momentum on the
further development of these pages.

Can people contribute some ideas or criticism on the suggested
structure I have published on the wiki. Anyone who knows of Creative
Commons licensed images that would be appropriate for the content, can
you insert the links in the wiki:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Development/Content/Why

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Re: [libreoffice-website] This Connection is Untrusted... (I know, I know, but...)

Does anyone know if it is possible to purchase a 'real' SSL
certificate for our domain?
I would be willing to contribute some money directly towards fixing this issue.

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:53 AM, emarkay m...@emarkay.com wrote:

OK, it's a Firefox and CA Cert issue, and the best answer seems to be:

Known problem related to the free cert used. For some reason browsers do
not accept the cert which leads to the report.

However the workaround: (you can also use regular http if you don't want to
trust an untrusted
certificate :-)) still gives the aforementioned warning error.

I am not paranoid about a bogus script and/or a buggy browser, or the
politics and all that, but someone needs to stand up and fix this.

Either remove the https, get a real certificate, post a workaround, or
at least have a We know ... ignore ... you are safe... pre-page, or
something.

Not off to a good start for those lesser aware noobs, now aren't we, IMHO?

MRK

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Work on the Why? pages

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've added ideas for Home use, but as Italo, I prefer working on structuring
 a document that introduce ideas than collecting them on a wiki.
 So I'll work with Italo on the Business and Gov parts if he needs me and
 will propose some content for Education and Home after the week end (I hope
 I get enough time).

 Kind regards
 Sophie

That sounds great Sophie. If you and Italo want to collaborate in a
document format we will integrate this into the ideas generated on the
wiki.

After we have gathered the content (text, images, etc) together I
think it would be best to get some of our design brothers and sisters
to integrate this into a snappy layout with punch lines which then
links to more detailed content.

I will continue to work on more detailed content for the ideas that I
introduced as well as finding some rich media that represent some
other ideas.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] This Connection is Untrusted... (I know, I know, but...)

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Christian Lohmaier
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi *,

 On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 AM, emarkay m...@emarkay.com wrote:

 OK, it's a Firefox and CA Cert issue, and the best answer seems to be:

 Well, the certificate used currently is not from CA Cert

 However the workaround: (you can also use regular http if you don't want to
 trust an untrusted
 certificate :-))  still gives the aforementioned warning error.

 Yes, because now ssl is enforced for working on the cms part of the
 site. No regular visitor has to use https though.

 Either remove the https, get a real certificate, post a workaround, or
 at least have a  We know ... ignore ...  you are safe... pre-page, or
 something.

 It is a real certificate.

I am somewhat unsure why we encounter the security warning. If we do
purchase a certificate from CA Cert will this resolve the problem?

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[libreoffice-website] Wiki Page Move Suggestion

2011-02-02 Thread Michael Wheatland

After the great 'website' wiki page redesign as discussed here and
implemented by Christoph we need to consolidate the documented
progress for the Drupal work that has already occurred.

Under Christoph's page design this would fall under the Next Step category.
Does anyone have any objections or suggestions about moving the
/Website/Drupal/* pages to /Website/Development/NextStep/* ?

Can anyone think of a better heading for this development?
Next Step sounds a little presumptuous, yet we still want to purvey
a sense of progress with the Drupal development.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Work on the Why? pages

2011-02-02 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:21 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi, :-)

 I just posted an expanded version of the Why for Home? page.

David et al,

I know this will likely be covered in the review of Information and
website architecture that is currently going on, but I have a few
ideas on how these 'why' pages are structured.

We already have information in 'features' as to why each part of the
product is good to use and we cover most of the other topics lower on
the 'why for home' page in the features section.

Personally I would love to see use case examples in the 'why' pages
rather than reiterating what has already been said in the features
section. I have been looking at the 'why for business' pages offline
and trying to put together a proposal in amongst busy work.

For example, 'Why for business' could cover:
Business intelligence and analysis using Calc and Base
Project management using Gantt charts in Calc
Professional presentations using Impress
Report writing with Witer
SixSigma pareto charts with Calc
Scientific journal writing with Math and Writer
*I am currently working on the content for these*

I would love to see us demonstrate cases where the suite works
together to allow the targeted end user to become more productive
during common tasks.

This was my original idea in the IA proposal months ago, and I think
it still makes sense to implement.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Libreoffice.org website dev sitrep 2011-02-02 - [Was: Work on the Why? pages]

2011-02-02 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:02 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 At that time, LibO will have a decent website to fulfill needs for the
 next few months, and those of you with those radically-different,
 imaginative, creative visions can develop them at leisure for
 presentation to the SC and community. I'll be pleased to contribute in
 any way you want me to.
...
 Then, I suggest that we thoroughly explore all other possible options
 via confcalls, wiki writing and modeling on the pumbaa server until we
 arrive at a v2.0 SilverStripe website to offer to the SC for approval
 - something tangible, backed-up by written presentations and
 proposals.

David, one thing I think should be clear, is that the website team
creates, maintains and is responsible for the website.
Instead of working independently and presenting competing work to the
SC for some kind of royal approval as you have suggested and has
occurred in the past, we should work collaboratively without any need
for Steering Committee intervention or requests for approvals.
As the website team we have the mandate and authority to improve the
website content and infrastructure, we simply need to compromise then
come to a conclusion.

 I know very well that the subject of Drupal is not gone from the minds
 of several of you. Therefore, I suggest that, when libreoffice.org
 v1.0 is at a finalized state, we should request the SC to request
 Christian to set-up a Drupal sandbox on the pumbaa server, in parallel
 to the SilverStripe sandbox. That way, you could thoroughly explore
 your ideas, and could experiment and model, and build properly-working
 demos that can be shown to the SC, for consideration, for whatever
 applications you imagine.

We already have a Drupal development site, why would we move it to
another persons server.
It is hosted on my server and I am more than happy to continue
supporting the Drupal development when we kick it off again in a few
months.
Also the 'pumbaa' server you are talking about drives me nuts as it is
not on port 80/8080/8000 and some of the proxies I use don't allow
other ports.

 For the Why? pages, I like Wheatbix's idea of concrete usage
 examples for each marketing target category, and - speaking my own
 view - I feel we should work on that. Me, I want to start by
 re-working Why for Home? in that direction. But I'd see these as
 being quite in-depth pages of maybe 500 words or more each.

'500 words' is a long way from what I envisaged when developing the idea.
Considering there are people who would like to try out more visually
pleasing content how about we set the challenge for these 'why' pages
and see what people come up with?

If there is anyone out there who does not have/want a Silverstripe
username you can forward content you have created on to me and I will
publish it. Please include any images as files.

 We'd need to evaluate a choice between the SilverStripe blogging and
 news modules on pumbaa, and then ask Christian to provide it on the
 main libreoffice.org site.

IMO 'LibreOffice News' is already provided by the LibreOffice Blog and Planet.
We simply need a way to import the XML to page content and setup a
list of the pages.
Again, I am not sure how Silverstripe works, but this is pretty basic
functionality and should be very easy to set up.

Just a few thoughts,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Website Projectplan

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Charles-H. Schulz
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 As far as I know, the plan was to wait until David presented the work
 he had compiled, then the whole website team would get involved in the
 improving phase. Don't get me wrong, the work David produced is
 fantastic, but I know that as a team we can create something that
 really represents the quality standard of the LibreOffice software
 product.

 You are absolutely welcome to work with the website team! But I don't
 have the feeling they want to restart the website over and over again.


 I am not sure who you are referring to by 'we', but these plans were
 discussed at length on the recent conference call, and the team has
 people who are willing to get on board and help out 'now'.


 If I remember what was discussed it was clear that while help was
 welcome on the website it  wasn't for an overhaul.

I don't believe anyone is talking about an overhaul. We are talking
about working with the great work that David has produced in order to
update and upgrade the site.

As with any project it is always important to revisit your initial
plan and compare it to what you ended up with then come to a
compromise. In my experience this is the basis for any half decent
final product in any industry.

Again, nobody is talking about scrapping what we have already as you
have suggested, we just want to improve what we currently have.

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Extra Pages.

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Clayton Walker
blender3dart...@gmail.com wrote:
 Shouldn't there be some sort of direct contact pages, such as Contact?
 Personally I'd like to see some pages specific to bug reporting (or some
 link, or an html embedded page), and well as feature requesting pages. Of
 course by this I mean they should be out in the open, where someone willing
 to contribute would easily find them.
 Just my 3 cents.

 -Clayton (ton of clay) Walker


Clayton,
You could submit your ideas to the wiki page on which we consider
structure proposals:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Structure

Great idea none the less. We are going through an iteration of
improvement on the website usability.
Please feel free to throw up ideas on the wiki.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Silverstripe and the view of mad changes.

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Narayan Aras narayana...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 04:56:50 +0100
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Silverstripe and the view of mad      
  changes.
 From: lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com
 To: website@libreoffice.org

 And I don't think it is worth to change anyway. The actions on the
 website will be fewer in future anyway. And then it's very helpful to
 get notified on changes (IMHO).

 That's right.

 Actually I realized that there is an unintended benefit that I overlooked 
 earlier:
 Often volunteers lose interest and stop participating, but they typically do 
 not bother to de-register themselves.
 As a result, the site has a large number of dead accounts.
 However, constant alerts from CMS will make them de-register.

 The net result is that the site will have only active contributors.

 -Narayan

Or these emails will simply be filtered out like I have done.
S much chaff amongst the wheat that the value/time ratio is too
small for me to even bother.

It doesn't bother me much, as I simply don't read them any more, but I
would prefer a customised workflow where we are actually able to
control what the CMS does.
Maybe we should try the advanced workflow module:
http://silverstripe.org/advanced-workflow-module/

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Christian Lohmaier
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Well - what you write doesn't make any sense at all. Again:
 * You complain about the modal prompt
 * I propse to change it
 * You don't want me to change thte CMS' code

To give some context,I subscribe to the view that hacking the core CMS
code means that you 'might' introduce new bugs, resulting in something
that cannot be supported by the CMS community.
It is an extreme example, but say someone altered the code of
LibreOffice, broke it, then came complaining to us about it being
broken and wanted us to fix it.
Also when you start hacking the core code, then you are creating a
code branch which you, or the community who comes after you will have
to maintain for security and functionality, which is not always
possible given the resources.

This is almost a religion within the Drupal community, and hacking the
core is seen as blasphemy.
If you wish to add or modify functionality you write a module which
does what you want via one of the many APIs, just as you would with a
LibreOffice extension.

IMO if you can't do something without hacking the core you don't do
it. If you still need it, you have chosen the wrong system to work on.

Michael Wheatland

Post Script:
I am not trying to have a go at Silverstripe, simply explaining the
context of your statement and my total opposition to changing core
code.
I don't know if the Silverstripe APIs are functional enough to cope
with these types of changes, maybe someone can shed some light on
this?

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Re: [libreoffice-website] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)

2011-01-29 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Ivan M. iv...@patentpending.co.nz wrote:
 Hi Michael,

 On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 I have just noticed that the DIV style Excerpt (Attention-Quote)
 requires more margin. The quote images overlap the text beside it.

 Can you provide an URL? It'd make it much easier to see what's wrong.


 https://website.libreoffice.org/silverstripe/styles-you-can-use/

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[libreoffice-website] Website team statistics for membership committee

2011-01-29 Thread Michael Wheatland

With the membership committee being formed there has been discussion
about extracting hard data from the contribution systems which will
allow the selection of members being accepted into The Document
Foundation.

With this in mind I think we should put together a list of
Silverstripe users with a 'commit number' of articles on the site.

I will be able to make a similar system for the Drupal development to
capture those users who have contributed there.

The wiki submission list is available already throught the LibreOffice
credits page.

Are there any other statistics which will allow the membership
committee to assess the contribution of the website team?
Is it possible/should we collate these numbers into a single
submission to the membership committee?

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Styling of website menu broken

2011-01-29 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Ivan M. iv...@patentpending.co.nz wrote:
 Hi David, all,

 On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 7:35 AM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi, :-)

 I renamed it Nabble as a quick fix, but really the CSS needs fixing,
 as you say.

 I've emailed Christian the CSS/image fix. However, if at all possible,
 please try to structure the website in a way that doesn't require a
 two-line secondary navigation (I know this is difficult since we rely
 on the default system sans-serif font).

 Regards,
 Ivan.


I am sure I missed this discussion, but what is the reasoning not to
use drop down suckerfish menus?

Michael Wheatland

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Re: RE : [libreoffice-website] Re: On forums for LibreOffice

2011-01-28 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Charles-H. Schulz
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 It's especially the last one in the list but they could get a new url soon,
 so stay tuned.

If it is phpBB based then we will have an opportunity to tie it in
with possible future infrastructure including user profile and session
sharing.
Could be a great boon for the project.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Revisiting the Information Architecture

2011-01-28 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Charles Marcus
cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote:
 On 2011-01-27 3:36 AM, Cor Nouws wrote:
 Michael Wheatland wrote (27-01-11 09:05)

 What are peoples feelings about the current structure, what tweaks do

 snip

 PS Sorry being the first to answer - just 500+ unseen mails an this is
 about the newest (LIFO).

 I'm sorry, but I really, really, *really* don't think that an email list
 is the proper 'forum' for discussing things like this. How can this be
 an effective medium for working out complex details for this kind of
 thing? Heck, the 'Talk' page on a wiki page would be better than a mail
 list thread.

 Imnsho, you are just asking, in fact *begging* for a whole lot more of
 the CMS 'discussion'-turned-*fiasco*.

 Please reconsider.

 --

 Best regards,

 Charles

Maybe we should dedicate a conference call to the web architecture?

Can you suggest any better way to allow people to express their
opinions on the page structures?

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[libreoffice-website] Revisiting the Information Architecture

Through the website design process an Information Architecture was
developed early on.
https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dfsf53bj_76cwzrp75z  (Yes it
was a part of the Drupal development, but was adopted in Silverstripe
also.

The current libreoffice.org site has the following IA:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Structure

This structure was created through the content creation process, and
it is time for us to revisit the status-quo and make improvements.

What are peoples feelings about the current structure, what tweaks do
you think would be good?

Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Restructure of website Wiki

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Volker Merschmann merschm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think the subject of this thread is a bit misunderstandable. The
 talk is just about the wiki pages for the website project, not the the
 whole wiki.

 Volker

Thank you for clarifying this point Volker.
This is aimed only at improving collaboration within the website team.

Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Problem with CSS

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Rimas Kudelis r...@akl.lt wrote:
 2011.01.27 14:54, Michael Wheatland rašė:
 Address and preformatted are the only options in the WYSIWYG editor
 along with H# tags, both of which overflow the text box.
 If another option was available I would use it. Also I don't want to
 html code styles, stylesheets are the best way to manage consistency
 across the site.

 Are there already other styles built into the theme CSS, and if so why
 is the editor not picking them up automatically?

 I think you should check out the other drop-down menu, maybe? ;)

 Rimas

I have tried almost every option in the style dropdown and only 2
work, neither of which is the style I am looking for. ie smaller text,
possibly inside a style box as a note at the top of the article.
'highlight' is one of those styles that is designed for content rather
than theme. Surely this style was not modelled off the LibreOffice
colour scheme? Although if we had LibreOffice official highlighted
text colour inside a grey box, that would be perfect.

Can anyone help with this? A text overflow out of a box just looks very messy.

Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Restructure of website Wiki

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com wrote:
 Am Donnerstag, den 27.01.2011, 04:47 -0800 schrieb Mike Houben:
 On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:40:48 +0100, Nino Novak nn.l...@kflog.org wrote:
  On Thursday 27 January 2011 00:56, Michael Wheatland wrote:
  Resources - A collection of logos, elements, images, links to videos
  etc.
 
  Created category Website/Resources
 

 Shouldn't this better be a Link to where the Design Team has his Inventory
 for all?! (So everything is up-to-date and no duplicate problems)

 Good point - something I also thought about, because we e.g. created the
 MIME icons (provided to the development), supported the development of
 the branding (important for many teams) and will also continue with the
 presentation template (which is mainly used by Marketing). Weird
 thing :-)

 So I think Mike has a good thought here: How about providing the final
 things to the website team, where it can be just used? I expect those
 things to be important to the outer world as well. In this case, the
 development, the discussions ... might be done within the Design Team;
 until the stuff is ready for production use.

There are a plethora of resources for the website team. We should not
duplicate the design teams infrastructure, but web building is much
more than just the visual design.
Obviously we should/will be linking to the design teams library but we
do need our own resource library which will also link to the other
relevant team resources.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Silverstripe - Can't edit images after insertion

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Christian Lohmaier
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi Michael,

 On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 We really need a path forward on this, probably should have had
 resolution of this major bug prior to selecting Silverstripe as the
 CMS.

 Bullshit again. During the evaluation period I had a demosite from the
 very beginning, invited people to check it out and compare the
 feature, show up limitations, etc.

 You didn't take the chance obviously, and are now complaining the
 loudest, despite several NL-teams, the LibreOfficeBox team, etc. all
 coming along nicely with the editor.

I was not involved with the initial setup, as the understanding was
that we were moving away from silverstripe in a short time. This was a
communication misunderstanding that was addressed earlier.

 I see you take the chance to bash silverstripe and in that way push
 support for drupal, but please don't do it so obvious.

 Raising issues with silverstripe is OK, but you should avoid starting
 to go to bashing mode right away.

I stated I don't want to spark up the CMS debate again. See below. I
am raising concerns which need to be addressed with the current
system, and referencing LibreOffice team developments that have worked
as specified: CKEditor.

 I don't really want to spark up the CMS debate again. So I hope I am
 totally incorrect and it is very easy to change editors.

 No, there is no need to change editors. As none of the editor choices
 in drupal were even close to being usable.

I completely disagree. The implementation of CKEditor by Carlos
Jenkins was nothing less than masterful.
The editor worked exactly as it was designed without interference by
the systems UI. Some drag and drop from the desktop features and
pasting rich text worked perfectly.

 Again: What breaking of content please.


here's a little screenrecording of image handling with chromium
browser. I don't see the problem.

http://pumbaa.documentfoundation.org:7780/assets/cloph/imagehandling.ogv 
(3.7MB)

Although I appreciate the screencast of the things that do work, I was
raising the things that don't.
I have put together a screencast of the options which I have found so far:
http://www.wheatland.com.au/sites/default/files/files/BrokenEditor.ogv

The two features which currently don't work is editing the image
properties via the right click menu and inserting a table.
As far as I can see, the UI that Silverstripe injects into TinyMCE
does not have image options for border, links, vspace or hspace which
is needed.

I would appreciate a reduction in the stonewalling and ridiculing my
legitimate concerns.
I am not trying to attack your work, I am raising concerns which need
to be addressed for the system to work for all contributors.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Narayan Aras narayana...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I would like to bring a fresh perspective to this debate:
 The pop up comes as the final step when someone submits changes. The box is 
 designed as modal for a SPECIAL purpose: You are NOT supposed to submit any 
 change without a justification/remark.
 Making it modal actually preserves the overall state while the CMS allows you 
 to add your comment. Were it not modal, you would be able to do something 
 with the CMS, in which case you may not be clear what you are saving.
 Therefore, IMHO it would be unwise to make this window modeless even if this 
 is technically possible.

 Note that submitting remarks is a standard practice with any VCS (Version 
 Control System).
 The version control subsystem INSIDE the CMS behaves in the same way.

 
 Now it is a different matter if this box misbehaves (it did not in my case).

The box does not misbehave, it works as specified, I was just
wondering if there was a more elegant modal dialogue which would popup
inside the window rather than lockout the entire browser.
It does not sound like there is.

Now that someone has explained why it was implemented that way I
understand the reasoning.
I still would like to copy and paste links in there from other tabs.
ie. discussion links on Nabble.
Guess I will just have to remember to copy the link prior to hitting
save or I will be stuck.

Thanks Narayan,

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

2011/1/28 Harri Pitkänen hatap...@iki.fi:
 On Friday 28 January 2011, Michael Wheatland wrote:
 Now that someone has explained why it was implemented that way I
 understand the reasoning.
 I still would like to copy and paste links in there from other tabs.
 ie. discussion links on Nabble.
 Guess I will just have to remember to copy the link prior to hitting
 save or I will be stuck.

 By the way, I just noticed this behavior is browser dependent. In Firefox 4.0
 beta 8 prompt gives you a quite nice looking (somewhat JQuery-style) modal
 dialog and you can still switch to other tabs while the dialog is open.
 According to this related Mozilla bug

  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59314

 at least Opera has the same feature too.

 Harri

Now we are getting down to the nitty gritty of the situation.
I will search through the chromium bugs to see if this has been
submitted there also.
If not I will submit the bug report myself.

Thanks for the very positive and constructive research and response Harri.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 4:00 AM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi, :-)

 Try and come on IRC maybe?

 David Nelson

 On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 02:21, Ivan M. iv...@patentpending.co.nz wrote:
 Hi Michael, all,

 On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

 Wednesday 26th January 2011 1800 - 2000 GMT

 http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/ConfCall/Agenda

 I expect that the call will be quite long, up to the full 2 hours,
 however we will endeavour to limit the discussion time for each topic
 in order to cover all of the topics.
 If you want to raise a specific topic please add it to the agenda and
 ensure that you are concise when we discuss topics.

 If anybody would like to contribute their view on a particular topic,
 please email me prior and I will relay your point of view.

 happyTalk to you all then /happy

 Sorry, I'm having some problems joining - will keep trying but I will
 be (already am) late. :(

 Talk soon,
 Ivan.

Skype not working,
Sorry all who were planning to join via skype.
We will ensure that we have another conference call soon.

Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 Hm... did you dial-in with the speaker PIN (dial number, then enter room
 number directly followed by speaker PIN, press # - no need for the other
 PIN). Then you're asked to press 1 for silence or 3 for speaking, so press
 3.

 Does this work?

 Michael Wheatland wrote on 2011-01-26 21.12:

 Technical issues with Talkyoo. On the phone also.

 I can't hear anything, just choppy noises.
 RQ is having this problem also. Maybe we should be working through
 skype native conference call next time?

There were many technical problems during the call. I recalled in a
number of times as the call manager with no success.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Christian Lohmaier
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi Michael, *,

 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:

 Having a popup which stops me using my browser is very annoying.

 Is this a Silverstripe bug?

 Well - when it's working as designed, you cannot really call it a bug, can 
 you?

 But I'll see how much effort it is to turn that one into a non-modal one.

It just seems to be an inconsistency with the UI, it holds you out
from doing other things in your browser while the popup is active.

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[libreoffice-website] Silverstripe: Tables not inserting

While trying to structure the content for the Apple Mac installation
instructions I have been trying to develop a layout that works well
with the large number of images and small quantity of text.
To do this I was going to use tables.

Problem: The WYSIWYG editor on Silverstripe is not inserting the
table. The table insert dialogue comes up ok, but when I click insert
nothing happens.

What editor are we using?
There were huge discussions about this a while ago, and I thought that
ckEditor was the most appropriate for the task.
If we are not using ckEditor, can we install it as the WYSIWYG editor
plugin we are using at the moment seems very buggy.

Thanks,
Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe UI question - Annoying persistent popup

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Christian Lohmaier
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi *,

 On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:31 PM, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Christian Lohmaier
 lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:

 But I'll see how much effort it is to turn that one into a non-modal one.

 It just seems to be an inconsistency with the UI, it holds you out
 from doing other things in your browser while the popup is active.

 It's using a regular javascript prompt call, if someone has a quick
 replacement at hand and save me some digging around

 i.e. anyone got code for a modeless prompt at hand, using jquery maybe?

  var message = prompt(promptText, );

 → javascript prompt dialog that is modal, i.e. blocks interaction with
 the parent window (the browser) unless the dialog is dismissed

Are you custom coding the popup?

I don't think that we should be altering the CMS core code. Isn't
there any options for this behaviour in Silverstripe?

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[libreoffice-website] Restructure of website Wiki

From the conference call outcomes, it is clear that the wiki will
provide a pivotal role in coordinating the team.
There has been a call to restructure the website wiki page. The
question is how should we approach this.

From what I understand, a flat structure is better for translations and i10n.
I would like to see pages with sub-pages / categories dedicated to:

Infrastructure and admin - for plans for implementing and improving the tools

Web Design - for Theming and standard reusable element development

Structure - For Information Architecture and wireframe development

Resources - A collection of logos, elements, images, links to videos etc.

Stakeholders - Details about each stakeholder/team and their
requirements from our infrastructure

Content - Working copies of the website content so anyone can suggest changes.

Proposals - Discussion about bigger ideas than the current infrastructure.

Have I missed anything?
Can someone with wiki moderation/admin experience weigh in on how
better to practically implement a structure.

Thanks,

Mike Wheatland

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[libreoffice-website] Silverstripe - Can't edit images after insertion

After inserting an image using the Silverstripe image sidebar I cannot
edit, move or select the image to edit it (I want to put in v/hspace).

Has anyone else using silverstripe encountered all of these bugs I am finding?

I use Chrome 9.0 on Ubuntu 10.10

Mike Wheatland

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[libreoffice-website] Re: Silverstripe - Can't edit images after insertion

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Michael Wheatland
mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 After inserting an image using the Silverstripe image sidebar I cannot
 edit, move or select the image to edit it (I want to put in v/hspace).

 Has anyone else using silverstripe encountered all of these bugs I am finding?

 I use Chrome 9.0 on Ubuntu 10.10

 Mike Wheatland

Help Someone?!?!?
I am not sure which module we are using to deliver a WYSIWYG editor to
Silverstripe, but this one clearly does not work well at all.
I am currently searching through the module list to find how we
implement ckEditor on the site but I cannot find anything relating to
editors:

http://silverstripe.org/modules/?KeyWordSearch=wysiwygSupportLevelField[SilverStripe]=SilverStripeSupportLevelField[Community]=CommunitySupportLevelField[None]=NoneSSversionsField=0sort=name

Please help, this is actually breaking content, which is really not
acceptable on a production site.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Introduction - Daniel Neel

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Daniel Neel dneel...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello everyone. My name is Daniel Neel and I'm interested in helping out
 developing LibreOffice's web site. I have experience working with (X)HTML
 and CSS, and a fair amount of writing skill. I look forward to working with
 everyone, thank you for your time :).


Hi David,
Good to have you on board. As you can see we are gearing up for an
intense couple of months and will need all the help we can get for
content writing and infrastructure improvement.

The website team is going to have it's inaugural conference call this
coming Wednesday, so I suggest you take a look at our wiki pages, and
even if you can't call in and listen to the call, we will post the
recording and the minutes to the wiki after the call.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website

Again, great to see more people getting on board.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Localization page on the site

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 1:49 AM, Christian Lohmaier
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi David,

 On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 4:53 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi Sophie, :-)

 Please do not just revert content without contacting me to discuss it.
 I would remind you of the Steering Committee decision to put me in
 charge of written content on the site for an interim period.

 Remember Sophie is member of SC and SC has right to veto.

 Also respect her experience in this area.

 ciao
 Christian

I have asked this question before, and was not able to be pointed to
the bylaw that states that individual SC members have universal veto
rights.
Maybe you can shed some light on this.

IMHO this is meant to be a collaborative process, but we do have
members such as David who have put their heart and soul into this with
some help from a small group of people with the expectation that a
review process will happen shortly.

The reversion without discussion of any well meaning contribution in
my mind is irresponsible whilst building a community.

Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com wrote:
 Hi Michael, hi website team!

 I had a look at the current agenda for the website call that will take
 place tomorrow. And I noticed something ...

 Am Montag, den 24.01.2011, 14:40 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland:
 If anybody would like to contribute their view on a particular topic,
 please email me prior and I will relay your point of view.

 ... I think the agenda already contains organizational questions, but
 also technical stuff. But when browsing through the many mails on this
 list, I feel like the website team (meaning all the people that are
 interested, but may have not been involved so far) itself is missing :-)

 So my questions are:
      * What is the scope of the website team (similar to item 1.1
        already present)? Example: Where to draw the (fuzzy) line
        between developer tools, marketing, design, admin team, ...
      * What is the website team's goal for the overall community?
      * What kind of interfaces will be established for the community?
      * How does the website team make sure, that the team's
        contributions are beneficial?
      * How wants the website team work together? What goals will guide
        the team?

 My personal wish is not so much answering these questions within the
 call, but to think about how to answer these questions with all the
 people here. What do you (all) think?

 happyTalk to you all then /happy

 Since I've unable to join, I wish you all much fun and success!

 Regards,
 Christoph

 [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/ConfCall/Agenda

I will add these items to agenda item 1 and clarify the items there.

I totally agree that we will likely not be able to answer the
questions in the call, as the answer to many of these questions will
require consultation with many other teams.
The expectation, as I understand it, is to assign specific people to
work at the interface between these teams, who have both the knowledge
of 'what is possible' and knowledge on the given topic.

Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Introduction - Daniel Neel

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Daniel Neel dneel...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm somewhat experienced with LO. I've used Open Office daily for around two
 years and LO for 2 or 3 months so far. I wouldn't consider myself a power
 user - mostly I just take notes with Writer. I do follow LO development
 quite a bit though, reading the Document Foundation planet and following the
 wiki and IRC occasionally.

 I generally enjoy cleaning up and verifying HTML (call me weird :P) and
 occasionally writing new content. Specific to products, I would prefer
 working on Writer or Impress content, as those are the only applications I
 have real experience with in the suite. However, I'm happy to learn more if
 needed/wanted.

Your impress knowledge will come in handy. Many people seem to be
versed in Writer and Calc, Impress and Base seem to be the areas we
need help with.

 If there is work to be done on the site regarding HTML/CSS and writing,
 those would be the areas I know best currently - I don't have nearly any
 scripting/programming experience currently. Thanks everyone for the warm
 welcome :).

Could I suggest that we add a specific agenda item to the website
conference call this afternoon to discuss design aspects of the
website team, I would love to see a collaborative organised collection
of people from both teams working on the UI and visual design of the
website infrastructure.

Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

2011-01-23 Thread Michael Wheatland

LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

Wednesday 26th January 2011 1800 - 2000 GMT

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/ConfCall/Agenda

I expect that the call will be quite long, up to the full 2 hours,
however we will endeavour to limit the discussion time for each topic
in order to cover all of the topics.
If you want to raise a specific topic please add it to the agenda and
ensure that you are concise when we discuss topics.

If anybody would like to contribute their view on a particular topic,
please email me prior and I will relay your point of view.

happyTalk to you all then /happy

Michael Wheatland

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[libreoffice-website] Silverstripe CSS - Strong tag changes text colour

2011-01-23 Thread Michael Wheatland

I have just noticed that due to the CSS on Silverstripe there is no
way to strong text without it turning green. Is there any way we can
change this and just use the h# tags for colours?

Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Work on the libreoffice.org content - sitrep 2011/01/22

2011-01-22 Thread Michael Wheatland

I will start developing content for 'why for business' and 'why for
government' I think they have a lot in common.

Does anyone know any reliable statistics about roll out costs,
installation and support?

Mike

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:17 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi guys, :-)

 I'd like to give you a review of where we are with the content
 currently on http://www.libreoffice.org, so that we can give a big
 push together and get things nicely perfected before the LibreOffice
 3.3 release.

 1) Home page:

 IMHO, the home page itself is just fine, and we don't really need to
 do anything particular there.

 However, if you log into the admin back end of the site and have a
 look at the IA underneath the home page, you will see that there are 5
 sub-pages: Why for Home, Why for Business, Why for Government,
 Why for Education, Why for NFPs and NGOs.

 We need content for these pages. If you go to the top of the admin
 page, you will see there is a tab To-do** the 2 asterisks mean
 that there is information to read there... Please read that info and
 maybe follow the suggestions?

 That's the first urgent task.

 Someone want to jump in and work on that?

 I will post back with more in a short while. ;-)

 David Nelson

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

2011-01-21 Thread Michael Wheatland

Looks like the best time is going to be:

Wednesday 26th January 2011 at 1900 GMT

This time would exclude Florian and Fabian. Not sure about David, his
availability says no, but he mentioned he might be able to shuffle
some things. Have a look at the poll and let us know if another time
might be better:
http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din

Also what do people think about starting early, possibly at 1800GMT so
we can capture as many people as possible over a 1-2 hour period.

Should we book it in?

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

So the date is set.

Inaugural LibreOffice website team Conference Call
Friday 21st January at 5pm GMT.

You can download the iCal file here:
http://doodle.com/export/ics?adminKey=participantKey=pollId=wzy78i52av4h6dinoptionIndex=62locale=entimeZone=GMT

Convert the time to your time zone:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?day=21month=1year=2011hour=17min=0sec=0p1=0p2=72

I will update the wiki page with the date and time.
David, as we discussed, could you please organise the conf call
resource with access codes etc and post to the wiki.

Thanks all, and I am looking forward to talking to you all on Friday.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: RE : Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Charles-H. Schulz
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 Not me, but then i'm not the only one to ask. Another day?

 Charles.


I have re-opened the poll. Please revisit Doodle to update your
availability times.

http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din

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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Drupal] The road ahead and missed opportunities

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:22 AM, Charles Marcus
cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote:
 On 2011-01-20 8:48 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 Charles Marcus wrote on 2011-01-18 19.52:
 If no one*from the SC*  contacted Michael*directly*  and took the
 time to explain the situation to him, then*the SC dropped the
 ball*.

 If no one*from the SC*  *knew*  that Michael was putting so much
 effort into the Drupal site (because they weren't monitoring the
 brand new official channels of communication), then*the SC dropped
 the ball*.

 Periods.

 Folks, ever thought that for problems, often two sides are
 responsiblem two parties are involved? It's rather easy to blame
 juste one side...

 I did *not* say that there were not two sides, or that Michael was
 blameless - I said that, *regardless*, since the SC has assumed the
 *Leadership* position, they *defacto* bear the largest burden of blame
 for this fiasco (ie, 'dropped the ball'), and I stand by that meaning.

 snipped a lot of other stuff I wanted to say but realized I've already
 said it and repeating it just wouldn't be productive

 Anyway, I'm hopeful from the sounds of things that you all will be able
 to get past this rough spot in the road and move on.


 Best regards,

 Charles

Regardless of any of this, I believe that the situation is very
salvageable. I hope this will be done at the Conference call very
soon.
I encourage you all to attend the call. We are all working as one
community, I believe these are simply misunderstandings and
communication issues rather than differences of opinion.

Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:45 AM, Karl-Heinz Gödderz
libreoff...@gukk-online.de wrote:
 Hi Michael,
 I will update the wiki page with the date and time.
 David, as we discussed, could you please organise the conf call
 resource with access codes etc and post to the wiki.

 can you give the address of the page please?

 Karl-Heinz

You can update your availability here:
http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din

There was a clash as the best time available was exactly the same time
as the SC meeting.
I am guessing the meeting will be mid next week looking at the updated
availability times.

If everyone could update your times we can get the ball rolling again.

Thanks all,
Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: new features page ...

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:41 AM, Charles Marcus
cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote:
 On 2011-01-17 8:39 AM, David Nelson wrote:
 But I see a chance to bring him back into the mainstream of the
 project by encouraging him (and his Drupal boys) to take a leading
 role in the development of the SilverStripe website as a superb
 communications and marketing tool for Libreoffice and TDF.

 I also think that, if Michael were so inclined, Drupal could initially
 serve as the 'support' backend, with its potential for integrating all
 of the different support modes (email lists, forums and newsgroups)...
 this would give it the opportunity to 'prove' itself (personally, I have
 no idea if Drupal can even truly achieve this, much less is preferable
 over Silverstripe)...

 I can still be there to play an assistive role in the wings, with
 some great ideas, too. But Michael could take on the main written
 content development role, working in close symbiosis with Christoph
 and Ivan. I feel they will have a close empathy and an excellent
 working relationship.

 I feel that this is a novel and creative solution to what could
 otherwise become a conflictual and unproductive situation. We will
 all win. Most important of all, LIBREOFFICE and TDF will win.

 What do you think? I am including Michael in this mail, and I want
 to hear his feelings on this.

 I think its a great idea if Michael is willing to take it on...

 Best regards,

 Charles

Charles,
I like the idea, but I think it is worth waiting for the conference
call to discuss.
This is achievable, however it will take some time setting up and
configuring, and in the same time we could have all the same
functionality as the existing site on one unified system, allowing us
to automatically manage all of the cross links between the systems. We
might end up creating a monster that we need to manually manage. I
will look into the possibilities prior to the meeting.

Again, it is a great idea. I will add it to the agenda for the Conference Call.

Thanks,
Mike Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [Drupal] The road ahead and missed opportunities

Please stand by.
David and myself are organising a regroup of the website team in the
form of a Conference Call.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Karl-Heinz Gödderz 
libreoff...@gukk-online.de wrote:

 Hi David,  ;-)

 David Nelson schrieb:
  Hi, :-)
 
  Micheal and I (or whoever else is appointed to leadership/coordination
  roles) will certainly liaise closely and regularly with the SC during
  SC confcalls, so that there are *no* communications failures.
 
  David Nelson
 
 
 I didn't think about communication failures but about attitudes/mindsets.


LibreOffice is an open community. We are personally inviting all of those
people who have already contributed to the website team and infrastructure.
The reason LibreOffice exists is to encourage grass roots development and
community building, rather than having to seek permission from a higher
power, ie Oracle.
LibreOffice is about meritocracy, structurally organising the team and
coordination clearly has merit for the whole community.

The reason we are organising this is to improve the leadership, development,
coordination and communication within the website team.
There have been some mistakes made over the past few months, David as a
Leader appointed by the SC and myself are working together to unite the
website team, enable discussion and decisions rather than dictate, and map
out the roadmap for the LibreOffice website in an official capacity as the
team responsible for the web infrastructure.

Any members of the SC who wish to actively contribute to the website team
are more than welcome to join the conference call and as a team we must
negotiate the best outcome for the community.
I have faith that members of the SC have respect for the website team enough
to respect and uphold decisions made by the team and the community.
The only attitude and mindset we need to think about is respectful
collaboration.

I hope this clarifies things,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: The road ahead and missed opportunities

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:54 PM, charles.h.schulz 
charles.h.sch...@gmail.com wrote:


 We're not going to reach an agreement here. I don't like to have people
 trying to enter through a window when they've been told they can't enter at
 the door.
 You are entitling yourself the website team. It's misleading and it has
 never been the case. Not everyone was for Drupal and you know it, in fact,
 Drupal was but one possible candidate. You come back again with your Drupal
 proposition and you want us to come back on our decision to appoint people.
 That's not going to happen.


 Let me make this clear: the SC at present cannot only be a conflict
 resolution body. It would be very diminishing anyway, if you read our
 bylaws. Right now it has to show leadership because everything has to be
 built. The SC built LibreOffice and is developing the Document Foundation.
 Which means there is more, much more than a website to it. All around you,
 all around us, we now have over a hundred (in fact hundreds of contributors)
 developing the software and being the community. What you're showing here is
 that you care more about Drupal than anything else and you care more about
 disrupting our work than contributing. We could be playing the blame game
 for days and months now. We've already been playing this for weeks.


 So now what I'm going to ask you is to choose between: contributing
 productively to the LibreOffice project and stop making demands, or leave
 this mailing list and the LibreOffice project. We all have better things to
 do than wasting our time.


Thank you for your constructive and positive input regarding my contribution
to the community ;)
I will be sure to raise your concerns at the first website team conference
call being organised by David Nelson and myself.

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Narayan Aras narayana...@hotmail.comwrote:


 Would it be possible to record the call and post a MP3  (with the MoMs) so
 the absentees can listen in later?

 Thanks!

 We will be organising the use of the current conference call technology. As
I understand it the audio can be downloaded and posted to the wiki as occurs
with the Marketing and Documentation conference calls.
Maybe David can shed some light on how this is done.

Thanks

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [Drupal] The road ahead and missed opportunities

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:58 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote:

 This email is to the Drupal team, who all that is I am not sure.

 Guys I have my problems with the SC members and I am leaving because of
 it, perhaps not quick enough.

 What you guys are talking about now however is just wrong - you need to
 stop, no more discussions, just stop and walk away - there is no good
 for anyone that can come from this.

 Please just let it go.

 Sincerely,

 Drew


Drew,
David and myself are organising the inaugural phone conference for the
website team.
Clearly there are people, including yourself who wish to contribute some
amazing ideas and developments to the LibreOffice project.
We hope that this Conference call will clear the way for effective
collaboration and build some trust between all of the members involved.

Communication is key, and we are all working towards the same goals.
I encourage you to attend or even just listen to the conference call to ease
your mind and hopefully get you back on board.

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Ivan M. iv...@patentpending.co.nz wrote:

 Hi Michael, David, all,

 On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
  David Nelson and myself are organising the inaugural LibreOffice website
  team conference call.
 
  To vote on the time please visit: http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din

 Is this the same meeting as the one we already created a Doodle poll
 for at [1], or is it something different altogether (in which case, is
 the other meeting off?)

  In the call we expect to discuss website team leadership, nomination of
 team
  leaders, coordination of tasks and the way forward for the website team
 and
  the developments we are responsible for.

 Hasn't the nomination of team leaders already been done by the SC? I
 was hoping we could finally move forward, but another round of
 nominations and discussions is going to delay things further (that
 said, I think confcalls are good opportunities to make progress as
 long as suitable provisions are made for those who can't attend).

 If the SC is OK with this, no problem. However, the last thing I want
 is for us to first delay by revisiting previous decisions only to have
 them invalidated by the SC which will cause further delays. I'm not
 against short term delays for long term gains if this is an
 opportunity to move forward (which I hope it is) now that the new
 website theme and initial content are up and running, but I also want
 to make sure that we won't be wasting time.


We will not be wasting time. The website team as a whole has
been segregated by the communication faults that have occurred.
David and myself agree that the best way forward is for the website team to
stand up together as a grass roots united community team. Demonstrate that
we have the skills required to build the website into a community tool and
build trust with the whole community that we listen to everyone.

One aspect that this entails is definition of scope and setting up teams to
manage these resources. There has been unhappiness at the designation of
leaders by the SC without any consultation with the team involved. David and
I have discussed this at length and we see, as I hope others see, that we
need more scope and definition about our responsibilities. This is not to
disregard the SC statement about the leaders, but the first action of these
SC assigned leaders was to unify the team, get consensus amongst the team
regarding sub-projects and better define the people coordinating these
groups.

The SC is precisely that, a steering body, it is the community which finally
decides where this project ends up by way of positive contribution,
collaboration and communication.

We will not be wasting time, we will be (hopefully) uniting the great
talents that we have at our disposal, generating trust and defining the
roadmap for the website team instead of the chaos theory coordination that
has occurred thus far. I can't see any circumstances where this does not
strongly benefit our team and the community as a whole.

Thanks for your concern, and it is this exact reason that we need this
conference call, to clarify all of these issues and to take responsibility
for the website team's resources.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

There seems to be a consensus for the conference call.
Is everybody happy if I close the poll and we select Friday 21 January @ 5pm
GMT?

Of the people who have expressed interest in coming along only Narayan is
not able to make it at that time. I already have some notes from him
regarding discussions he wishes to initiate.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: The road ahead and missed opportunities

2011-01-18 Thread Michael Wheatland

 on
Silverstripe, with the exception of David at the last minute, we were
in the progress of restructuring the self organised team and the SC
comes and overrules yet another decision without being involved or
even reading the mailing list.

 Expect a more hands-on approach of this mailing list. We're grateful for 
 contributions, but we're not here to stand the desires of people who cannot 
 understand that Free Software does not equal chaos and always following their 
 decisions. The Steering Committee (and soon the Board of Directors) is here 
 to take decisions as well as other entities (see our bylaws). We're not 
 dictatorial, because we owe you transparency and that our bylaws clearly show 
 no one can have absolute or even too much powers. But what we want to set is 
 an atmosphere in mailing lists that are focused on contributions and not on 
 fruitless discussions.

I don't really want a more hands-on approach. I would much prefer an
open Hands off approach where decisions made inside mailing lists
are respected and implemented.
We moved to LibreOffice expecting 'community governance', not another
team of non-elected members who it seems occasionally actively block
ideas and developments they do not agree with.

 In the end, all of our actions, individually, collectively, can only be 
 measured on one criteria: contribution. This is the way we move forward, this 
 is why we are Libre.

Personally, I don't feel very Libre at the moment.

I believe that the ONLY way forward is to withdraw the latest decision
to appoint leaders and again allow us to self organise as we did
before, despite what David or other members of the SC would prefer.
The SC can't make every decision and must trust and believe in their
teams if this community is even going to get off the ground. Releasing
the software is only the first step to success, community is the key.

This is NOT a disagreement about CMSs! it is about building community.

Michael Wheatland.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [Drupal] The road ahead and missed opportunities

2011-01-16 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 3:51 AM, Charles Marcus
cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote:
 On 2011-01-15 4:41 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
 I would sincerely hope that this would not disappear in the near future,
 it would in my humble opinion, be a great shame to lose all that work.

 +100

 The integration of mail list  forums  newsgroups alone is worth
 using Drupal, assuming of course that it can indeed be accomplished as
 Michael described...

 Michael, I'm sure all of your hard work won't be wasted, hang in there...

I would love to contribute to a brighter future for this project. I am
however getting the feeling that the establishment of this project is
less of a step forward for community coordination and governance than
I was expecting.

The consultation process with the website mailing list and website
team members when establishing the Group of four was non-existent.
In fact I have seen a shout out to the documentation mailing list for
new contributors for the website, while there are already members
poised to help if consultation and coordination occurs, as we have
seen with the Drupal development. I believe that ignoring and
belittling this large contributor base is mis-management of the
website team by the Steering Committee, and that these active members
can be utilised given the right leaders.

I sincerely hope that my impression is incorrect, and will remain
subscribed to the mailing lists and waiting to see the establishment
of the membership committee and some forward thinkers elected to the
Board and Engineering Steering Committee.

I appreciate all of the public and private support that much of the
Drupal team and myself have received, Everyone has done an amazing
job. It is now in the SCs hands to allow the website team to work
collaboratively and constructively in a grass roots 'open' way, rather
than dictating what the website team 'will do' and designating
leaders.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Libo Logos for third party sites

2011-01-14 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 6:36 PM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol
o...@sophia-louise.de wrote:
 Hi Michael, *,
 Am 14.01.2011 09:58, schrieb Michael Wheatland:

 I think it would also be good to create some 'badges' for people to
 put on blogs or profiles.
 This might include an I use LibreOffice or Join me... type of
 messages.

 What do people think?

 +1

 --
 Greetings
 k-j

Maybe something like this (Works on darker backgrounds, not so well on white):

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DEiZb4Onok5V78oNMZAAmw?feat=directlink

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: new features page ...

2011-01-14 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote:
 Le 2011-01-14 09:43, David Nelson a écrit :

 Hi Michael, :-)

 Thanks for these good ideas. Sure we can implement your suggestions.

 If you want to help out with screenshots, that's fine, too. I've done
 all screenshots under Ubuntu using the Ambiance theme, window only,
 with window sized to 1000x750.

 You can supply me with that shot and I'll do the rest (I produce a
 downsize at 800x600 in png using Gimp, and then another png at 400x300
 using Photoshop. Empirically, that seems to produce the best quality.

 IMHO, it would be best to keep all the screenshots to this uniform
 format.

 Apart from that, we can format the layout the way you want it
 (preferably without breaking out of the theme styles).

 It would be great if we can work on this together, so that we get the
 result you want.

 David Nelson

 On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 22:16, Michael Meeksmichael.me...@novell.com
  wrote:


 If I were new to LibreOffice and dropped by this section, I would think
 automatically of New Features compared to what? Was there a previous
 version?

 Perhaps this section should be re-titled to Highlighted Features (or
 something like that). I still favour not comparing ourselves to OOo. IMO, we
 should forge our own path and let other distro's try to keep pace with us.
 At this point, we have the momentum, the interested community contributors,
 and talented devs. Other distros should be comparing themselves to us. I
 think this would be a better attitude to have.

 As far as marketing, sure, we may compare ourselves to other distros, OOo
 and MSO. This, IMO, would be better made on a page with a grid with
 checkmarks as to what we offer compared to the other distros. We could
 reference this page back to the Highlighted Features page.

 Just my opinion.

 Cheers

 Marc

I agree with this concern. Yes we are using code from OpenOffice,
BrOffice and OOGo among others, but LibreOffice is a 'new product',
there has been no LibreOffice products before this one, hence we
actually don't have 'new features' just features which make
LibreOffice stand out from the crowd of Office suites.

Mike

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [Drupal] The road ahead and missed opportunities

2011-01-14 Thread Michael Wheatland

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2011-01-13

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: LibreOffice templates

2011-01-08 Thread Michael Wheatland

 I am helping with finding some nice templates for the distro. I am
 looking
 for a little direction as to what technical aspects that I should take
 into
 account before embarking on this (licensing and branding issues). Are we
 allowed to hold some of these on our website or is it just better to

The OOo templates directory is great, but from what I can see a lot of
the very good templates are produced by RedOffice and copyright.

I will try to put together some nice looking templates over the next
couple of weeks and upload them directly to the wiki.

Could you point us to the templates page so I can add them.

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Urgent call for sample files for producing screenshots

2011-01-08 Thread Michael Wheatland

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Stefan Weigel
stefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org wrote:
 Hi David,

 Am 08.01.2011 14:19, schrieb David Nelson:

 And Sophie, sorry, but they *will* be under Windows, not Linux

 This has already been intensively discussed an investigated, when we
 were making screenshots for OpenOffice.org website and
 documentation. André Schnabel even directly and officially asked at
 Microsoft. The final result of all this:

 Do not use Screenshots taken from a programme running on MS Windows,
 when you are going to use these screenshots in a document, that´s
 supposed to be under a free license.

 Stefan

Can you provide links to this discussion or the Microsoft policies
that imply copyright protection for screenshots. I would love to read
them myself.

Cheers.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-design] Extensions List suggestion

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Charles-H. Schulz 
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 Hello there,

   
   
Can you tell me where does this come from? Where this decision
has been discussed and taken and by whom? The fact that we don't
use the OOo site is to satisfy a request that has nothing to do
with quality.
   
We are an open source project, why should we prevent somebody to
contribute for whatever reason? what are the criteria for the
quality you're talking about, where are they written, who is the
person giving the approval? That would be funny that people could
contribute to OOo but not to LibO...
   
  
   It is a work in progress. We will be consulting with all of the
   stakeholders once things settle down and LibO3.3 has been released.
   Rest assured we will be able to change things once a community
   consensus has been reached.
  
   We did not want to move focus away from the important areas of
   community development at the moment. Hence the comment previously.
  
   Stay tuned


 I must say that I'm left perplexed by all this. Michael, would you mind
 telling us:
 - who is We as we did not want to move focus away
 - why this secrecy? Do you remember it's an open source project?
 - we will be consulting with all of the stakeholders...  so let me
  rephrase: you're doing something apparently in secret then will
  battle hard to defend it in front of the community? That's about the
  most unproductive thing I can think of here, and it reminds me of the
  Drupal misunderstanding. Nobody has ever talked about an extension
  store/website, although it's definitely something we need to address.
  But working this way around just does not help.


I don't want to seem rude, but there seems to be a disproportionate amount
of 'push back' within the website mailing list, while groups and individuals
are working hard to build a better future for our community.
Regardless of the development style, or whether it is received well from the
community during consultation and even if ideas are not implemented, could I
suggest everybody attempts to take an encouraging attitude towards new ideas
and people willing to put hard work in to any idea or project. It is the
responsibility of the people doing the work to consult and present their
idea and development to the community at which point feedback and
(hopefully) constructive criticism will always occur. (This is not a direct
reference to Charles, but a feeling that I have from participating in and
watching the mailing lists).

There is no secrecy involved with this or any other ideas/developments I am
involved in. It was an idea floated inside the website mailing list, wiki
pages and instant chat discussions between the website team (Not IRC
unfortunately).
The idea was roughed out and as we have made clear through the website
mailing list a number of times it is very easy to create a rapid prototype
to 'show' the idea rather than tell it.

A number of people in the website team don't like the mailing list
communication style, so we have been successfully coordinating many tasks
through the wiki using a similar style to the marketing team.
I can point you towards multiple references on the mailing list
conversations discouraging consultation about these 'future projects' at the
moment, so instead of halting progress on the idea a group has been talking
about possibilities and integrating it into a first draft prototype so we
have something to discuss when the time comes rather than starting from
scratch. This is also the route that the Silverstripe site has taken through
the initial development which is due on the 10th January, after which
modifications, alterations or redesigns can occur. This is also the way that
the SC asked for the community bylaws to be developed, which IMHO has worked
quite well.

Let me reiterate that this idea is simply that, and idea, at the moment. A
small amount of work has gone into putting a very rough prototype together,
but as with the 'Drupal idea' no decisions have or will be made without
wider consultation.

If anybody wishes to participate in this very early idea development and
prototyping I am more than happy to include them in any and all
conversations relating to this or any other ideas. All of these ideas as
well as developments and participation is being recorded on the website wiki
pages. So I fully refute any accusations of 'secret development', and I
dislike the insinuations that this makes on me and others working together
for the good of our community.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Regroup and further development of the website(s)

Disclaimer: Personal opinion follows:
Forgive me if I am stepping out of line as a newish member but,

There seems to be a lot of 'measuring' going on, especially on the website
mailing list.
If someone has an idea and is willing to put in the effort regardless of the
outcome they should be encouraged to do so and applauded by the community if
the idea is implemented.

Too much effort is being put into arguing, accusing, misunderstanding and
dare I say it, trolling and burning.
Our community should rise above these negative, destructive attitudes and
look to the future.

Personally I am not interested in what anyone has contributed previously.
People come from all walks of life and nobody is a master of all trades.
If somebody, anybody has a constructive suggestion or valid idea I am
willing to consider and embrace it with solid work and encouragement.
In my experience if someone approaches a task or discussion from
an inflammatory or derogatory point of view, they have near nothing to
offer.

I hope others share this point of view, and I encourage others to embrace
the positives within our community in order to achieve more than we ever
imagined.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Regroup and further development of the website(s)

 I don't know whether I got the correct tone for this mail; I hope that
 it conveys some deeper thoughts that might be helpful ... finally, it is
 up to you and the Drupal team how to use/interpret the content. All I
 can do, is to give you some insight what I perceive.

I don't believe you did get the correct tone of my email. Please
don't snip sentences in my email out of context.
Please re-read the paragraph in full and do not 'snip' parts out. It
is about equality and respect within the community.

My Original Email:
Personally I am not interested in what anyone has contributed previously. 
People come from all walks of life and nobody is a master of all trades.
If somebody, anybody has a constructive suggestion or valid idea I am willing 
to consider and embrace it with solid work and encouragement.
In my experience if someone approaches a task or discussion from 
an inflammatory or derogatory point of view, they have near nothing to offer.

So what do I perceive? Is there something I am able to measure?

The context of this email was not about Drupal or any specific
contribution. Measuring in context refers to a certain part of the
male anatomy.
I am interested in progress, not ego.

By 'regardless of outcome', I meant whether it is implemented or not.
Of course changes that do not benefit the community/product will not
be implemented.
I am always interested in constructive conversations. Constructive
conversations can also result in not doing something. This email was
simply about the communication methods, especially on the website
mailing list.

So, referring to your statement, a rhetorical question: Why should we be
interested in what the Drupal team may theoretically contribute?

This is the exact communication attitude I was referring to in the
email. All members need to be open to new ideas. LibreOffice is not
the OOo community, we are a new community which comes with great
opportunity.
I am always interested in good ideas regardless of the originator. I
will listen to experience, I will listen to considered view points.
The email was simply stating that I ignore ego and will likely learn
to ignore anyone with a derogatory attitude towards any other members.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-design] Extensions List suggestion

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Charles-H. Schulz
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 Okay, so indeed it's not exactly secrecy :-) Would you mind pointing
 out some of the wiki pages ?

We are coordinating the efforts through well structured wiki pages.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal_Strategy
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Drupal#Drupal_Website_Project_Progression

Please see specifically the Information Architecture proposal which
was the basis of the prototype developments that have occurred so far:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website#The_LibreOffice_Drupal_Project

This was presented on the mailing list and discussed at length on both
the mailing list and other communication mediums.
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Modified-website-design-proposal-td1820077.html

As an open community we are free to collaborate and communicate on any medium.
Once we have something that is good enough to warrant showcasing for
constructive criticism we will endeavour to capture all of these
communication mediums to ensure the entire community is consulted.

I am happy to say that the group of people working on the concepts,
ideas and prototyping within the Drupal section of the website team
have made a huge effort for transparency.
Please don't make accusations that are untrue.

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Regroup and further development of the website(s)

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 7:51 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi, :-)

 On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 18:03, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 David et al, could we get an update on what has been done so far and
 what needs to be done in your mind.

 My take on things that the best thing would be to wait until January
 10. On that date, the SilverStripe site will have been re-themed, and
 I'll have finished what I set out to achieve with the content.

 I'll be handing back to the SC, and will be humbly suggesting that
 they might take some decisions about how to manage the site. But I've
 no idea what their intentions are in that respect.

 After that, I guess there will be some kind of community/team
 consultation process, but I'm not aware of what form that will take.
 If it's decided that I'll be asked to make changes/alterations, I will
 certainly make them. But if it's decided that SC members want to take
 control of things, then I'll be happy to comply with that as well.

I think a 'handback' to the wider website team would be more appropriate.
The SC made the decision to go with Silverstripe because a consensus
could not be made within this team.
It will be our responsibility to improve and maintain the site and
infrastructure moving forward.

 In any case, my original goal will have been fulfilled: the
 LibreOffice project finally has an operational website that will look
 credible.

 Ivan is currently working on the theme right now, after we've
 consulted together, and I think the result is going to look pretty
 good. However, like the content, the theme will be up for review and
 approval, and if changes are decided then they'll be made.

 So, the best thing is to hang on for another week or so, and then
 listen out for news from the SC.

Again,
Thanks for all of your hard work, and when you are ready to involve
more people we are poised to start contributing to the site.

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Regroup and further development of the website(s)

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:25 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote:
 Hi, :-)

 On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 18:45, Michael Wheatland
 mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote:
 I think a 'handback' to the wider website team would be more appropriate.
 The SC made the decision to go with Silverstripe because a consensus
 could not be made within this team.
 It will be our responsibility to improve and maintain the site and
 infrastructure moving forward.

 I have put a lot of time and energy into what I've done, and I've
 decided to specifically hand it back to the SC, on the 10th. I'll be
 mailing them beforehand, and they will obviously be free to take what
 action they like. ;-)

 So, Michael, I think the wisest thing is that neither you nor I should
 make any assumptions about anything. It will be the SC that decides.
 ;-)

 David Nelson

I am somewhat confused. Are you suggesting that someone other than the
website team will be maintaining and improving the website?

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Regroup and further development of the website(s)

 I can't answer for David, obviously, but I can say that the website and the
 infrastructure is run by admins who may or may not be part of the website
 team.
 But the website team obviously ought to interact with them.

I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but this sounds like you are
suggesting that the website team has no autonomy, responsibility or
accountability.

It would be good to clarify this situation sooner rather than later,
as progress hinges on decisions.
As a group we need to know that any informed decisions we make can and
will be implemented without relying on outside parties to implement it
for us.

Would this autonomy hinge on us raising the funds to support our own
website infrastructure rather than relying on ODF servers?

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Regroup and further development of the website(s)

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote:
 Le 2011-01-04 15:19, ol klaus-jürgen weghorn a écrit :

 Hi:

 Hi all,
 Am 04.01.2011 15:43, schrieb Marc Paré:

 There are many people involved in this list who are keen to
 contribute. Lets get them involved.
 To do that, we need to be kept up to date with the Silverstripe site
 progress and encourage collaboration, delegation and accountability.

 Absolutely :-)

 I also agree on this. The initial problem with the site was the lack of
 participation on content not on running the site. The website team
 should still be able to review/contribute as per normal.

 Maybe it is a lack of my English but I don't understand this note.
 There were many weeks/months in which nobody do something on the content
 of the website although e.g. Christian call/cry for content.
 Christian and Stefan (as I remember) built the download and some other
 scripts because no one else do the job. Then David took him a heart and
 made content in order to get a site which we can present in time.
 The site with the content is up since December 24th. There was many time
 to discuss about the content.
 And now you tell that the website team has no possibility for
 participation on content?
 I think that everybody of the website team who wants to
 review/contribute has an account to libreoffice.org with
 author/publisher rights. Do it, website team (but think of the note of
 David who requests to wait until January 10th.)

 Greetings
 k-j


 Yes, we are waiting till the January 10th as requested by David. For the
 record, some of us did start adding content, I for one had worked on the
 Support section but left it to David once he reorganised that section.

So it sounds like there is a consensus, after the 10th the website
team will, after the brief from David, do a review on the progress.

In the absense of a Silverstripe team lead, I will try to coordinate
the ideas and change management that comes from this review on the
wiki in the same way it has been done on the Drupal development.

I am looking forward to us getting organised again in the new year in
order to finalise this site as well as start building the LibreOffice
community infrastructure of the future.
Thanks all,

Michael Wheatland

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Regroup and further development of the website(s)