Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
Hello, thanks for the feedback, and let me shed some light to this from my point of view. The donation page as it is today, shown during the moment of download, is the result of some extensive research and discussion with other free software projects, and it has been very well received, not only from the donation side, but also from the way it outlines why we need financial support, and what we do with the money. Where we definitely have room for improvement, and it's in fact something on our todo list, is to provide some better graphical overview on how we spend the money, what projects and areas we cover - which is something that will also be featured in the upcoming annual report. As for the link to the financial reports, I have been using mail-archive.com as they, in contrast to our own archives, provide a search functionality. Sadly, it indeed seems we need to adjust the search string a bit, as Thorsten has been posting updated ledgers also after February 2013. ;-) Accounting has become much more work the last year, and I am very thankful to Thorsten for carrying the burden on the topic so far - his free time is spare as well, so ledgers take some time to be published. Since a few days, we have handed over the 2014 accounting to a professional accountant, and I expect we get timely reports from them, which we will then make public as well. Looking at the number of donations, and the number of questions we receive with regards to donations, the rate is fairly well below 1%. So I think we do not have a general problem with the page. Over time, we have gradually improved it in its design and wording, and it clearly states, in many languages, that donations are purely optional, that LibreOffice is free of charge, and also provides a link to the direct download in case something goes wrong. Like with several other pages - the mailing list unsubscription instructions, the fact that mailing lists posts are public, and the note that neither info@ nor our phone number are a support line - every now and then it happens people have issues and don't read what we write. When we are made aware of this, we help out, we explain, and - even if that is a pain accounting-wise and eats a chunk of time - generously refund donations if people have problems. I hope that sheds some light on the overall process. I think no matter what we do with the page, there will always be people who do not read even a highlighted text, which can lead to confusion, independent from how the page is designed or worded. I personally would not change the download mechanism for the reasons outlined - however, if you have concrete proposals on what to improve, on how the wording should be changed, I am more than happy to hear and incorporate them. Thanks, Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
Hi Charles Charles-H. Schulz wrote Looking at Pedro's posts all around I believe it would be difficult to find anything else aside that. That's what I meant. This post is about how other users perceive the download page. It is not even a problem that affects me. Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Too-much-emphasys-on-donation-tp4103755p4103795.html Sent from the Website mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
Hi Florian Thank you for the quick answer. Florian Effenberger wrote I personally would not change the download mechanism for the reasons outlined - however, if you have concrete proposals on what to improve, on how the wording should be changed, I am more than happy to hear and incorporate them. I think that Robinson's suggestion to make it a quite visible side bar while the focus is on the download itself makes sense. Still, I'm not a designer. That is why I suggested they should provide some feedback. My perception is that people who have donated don't like to be imposed... Maybe some sentence in the sense of If you have already donated, please disregard this. We appreciate your contribution,etc There are also questions about refund which I didn't even knew (until your post) it was possible (it is only mentioned in the bitcoin section) http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/23261/is-there-a-way-to-get-a-refund-of-my-donation/ I believe there is always room for improvement ;) Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Too-much-emphasys-on-donation-tp4103755p4103800.html Sent from the Website mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
Hello, Pedro wrote on 2014-04-02 12:20: I think that Robinson's suggestion to make it a quite visible side bar while the focus is on the download itself makes sense. Still, I'm not a designer. That is why I suggested they should provide some feedback. if we have a concrete proposal, we can look at it. What I can tell is that since we have changed the timing of the donation request, we have received lots of positive feedback, people telling us - that despite the donation texts on the website before - they were not aware, and that it actually is a good idea to ask for donations while people do get the software. This is not different from what Wikipedia does when they run their campaigns - above the articles you find rather prominent text boxes asking for donations. So, my personal take is that of course improving the page and maybe editing the design for sure can be done, I just wouldn't change the overall process - it has proven to be working. And no matter what you change, you will always find someone who has issues with that. From time to time, there are still people saying I dislike the green or the name is stupid, so we can't make everyone happy. ;-) So far, the number of complaints is rather low, which tells me we have not been doing terribly wrong. My perception is that people who have donated don't like to be imposed... Maybe some sentence in the sense of If you have already donated, please disregard this. We appreciate your contribution,etc I wouldn't do so. On the opposite, many people are asking for options to have recurring donations, that's actually a demand, not by one, but by many (and we are looking into this). So telling them If you donated once, please don't donate anymore would turn that around. To me, it's all about understanding and explaining the software is free of charge, can be used without any obligation, but at the same time tell people that TDF solely relies on donations - otherwise they won't know, from where should they? People have a choice to not donate, to donate once, or to donate regularly. I think the current page has that explained quite well in balance, but if there's a concrete proposal, of course we can have a look at it - anything can be improved. :) There are also questions about refund which I didn't even knew (until your post) it was possible (it is only mentioned in the bitcoin section) http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/23261/is-there-a-way-to-get-a-refund-of-my-donation/ People can always contact us and we find a solution. What we should try to avoid is to refund anyone who experiences a bug. Refunding costs time and money, and produces more accounting work. So, if someone really didn't know he doesn't have to donate, or accidentially donated twice or the like, we of course refund. I just don't want to open the door to refunding if people are dissatisfied with anything. Imagine donors at Wikipedia would ask for a refund two months later, because they found a mistake in an article... I believe there is always room for improvement ;) I share your view here, and am happy to look at concrete proposals to what can be improved, of course. Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
First of all, I always believed that the TDF is an open foundation and therefore CRITICISM SHOULD ALWAYS BE WELCOME because that is what makes the project improves. Imagine, if someone found a bug and did not report it because someone just decided that those who criticizes should not do it. Secondly, I also think that the design could be changed by, maybe, not redirect to the full Donate page but add a small widget in the page that invites users to donate. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Too-much-emphasys-on-donation-tp4103755p4103834.html Sent from the Website mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
Hi qubit ;) Robinson Tryon wrote Apparently some users feel that... Maybe the page needs a re-design? What if the donation information was in a side-bar instead of the main body of the page? That might help to convey that the donation aspect of the page is secondary to the download. That would definitely help... I'm not a designer but it is obvious that the page contents puts so much emphasis on donation that it is confusing users... Furthermore because direct update download still doesn't work, ALL users have to pass by the donate page on EVERY update regardless if they have donated before which IMO is a bit coercive and/or ungrateful... Maybe the Design people should have a go at this? One more detail on the page: the sentence we have made our budget as well as our financial reports public. links to http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=board-discuss%40documentfoundation.orgq=%22TDF+Budget+for%22 however there are only budgets until Feb 2013... Cheers, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Too-much-emphasys-on-donation-tp4103755p4103762.html Sent from the Website mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Too much emphasys on donation?
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Pedro pedl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi qubit ;) Revealing my secret name! Well, at least you didn't call me Rumpelstiltskin :-) Rumpelstiltskin Tryon wrote Apparently some users feel that... Maybe the page needs a re-design? What if the donation information was in a side-bar instead of the main body of the page? That might help to convey that the donation aspect of the page is secondary to the download. That would definitely help... I'm not a designer but it is obvious that the page contents puts so much emphasis on donation that it is confusing users... Mentioning the topic of donation during the download process can be financially beneficial for us -- I totally understand that -- but we do need to seek an appropriate balance. Furthermore because direct update download still doesn't work, ALL users have to pass by the donate page on EVERY update regardless if they have donated before which IMO is a bit coercive and/or ungrateful... Perhaps the updater a GSoC project for next year?, or maybe OSX and Windows could just ship with a package manager? :-) Maybe the Design people should have a go at this? If a quick mock-up can be made, I think it would be worth our time One more detail on the page: the sentence we have made our budget as well as our financial reports public. links to http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=board-discuss%40documentfoundation.orgq=%22TDF+Budget+for%22 however there are only budgets until Feb 2013... I might add that we're pointing to a non-TDF url for the archive; an internal url would be preferable, especially when referencing financials. I suggest you give the Board a quick ping about that: Perhaps the budgets have been archived separately since Feb 2013. Best, --R -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
