[whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc)
Hi, I'd like to proprose an API to get a unique device's ID in HTML5. If some discussions/works do already exist on it, please let me know, I didn't find this stuff. In fact, a single method/property seems sufficient so far, say: window.navigator.deviceID. The property should return a string, either obtained directly from OS (as provided by manufacturer, for example, Android ID), or mangled with some salt. Due to security and privacy considerations, the API should ask user confirmation to access the ID by current site, much like geolocation API does. The reasoning for this API is the need to uniquely identify every device in many web-applications. Currently the only option is to use some user registration scheme with cookies, local storage, etc. It leads to overheads in development (user table support, authorization implementation), and inconveniences to end users which must register themselves on many sites. Seamless and unobtrusive, yet authorized identification of device would improve users' experience, imho. Best wishes, Stan
Re: [whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc)
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012, Stan wrote: The reasoning for this API is the need to uniquely identify every device in many web-applications. Why do you need to identify the device? What about if the user uses the same browser profile on multiple devices? Or multiple browser profiles on the same device? Or moves their profile from one device to another? Or uses multiple virtual machines in one device? -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Re: [whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc)
On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012, Stan wrote: The reasoning for this API is the need to uniquely identify every device in many web-applications. Why do you need to identify the device? What about if the user uses the same browser profile on multiple devices? More than half of our users login with multiple user agents on a given day. Or multiple browser profiles on the same device? Perhaps surprisingly, that's a highly common scenario on mobile devices, particularly out of the US. -- tobie
Re: [whatwg] A plea to Hixie to adopt main
This was meant to follow-up to Henri's message[1]: [1] http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-December/038219.html but for some reason that didn't make it to my archives so I'm replying to the latest message on this thread that did. tl;dr: Having previously opposed the addition of a main element, I've been convinced by the arguments (and counter-counter-arguments) and evidence presented[1] that it's worth adding main to HTML. I'm a strong advocate of being conservative of adding new elements to HTML. Every element we add has a cost (in maintenance, learning etc.) and perhaps increasingly so. That's the high bar that has been referenced that has to be met - a new element must provide advantages outweighing the cost to all of us of adding a new element. In particular I am thinking of the cost to authors/developers of continuing to grow HTML and its complexity. aside If anything I think I've grown more conservative regarding new elements in this regard based on experience teaching authors. I used to support hgroup, and though while I personally find it useful in content, I no longer find its addition useful enough for authors in general to overcome the confusion it adds. Similarly with section (which appears to be turning into an alias for div). IMO the outline algorithm is dead and we could simplify HTML by dropping these two. /aside There has been a lot of reference to previous threads (on this list, other lists, etc.) and at some point it becomes useless to say go search the mail archives because no one has time follow all the meandering threads. I've written up a wiki page documenting what I believe to be sufficient arguments to add the main element, along with arguments against that I've heard and rebuttals, as well as counter-proposals made along with flaws in counter-proposals: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Main_element Contributions/corrections/citations welcome, both for *and* against main. From discussions I've seen there appears to be a growing implementer consensus that adding a main element helps more than it hurts and thus I expect to see it happen. However, I still think adding main is fully supported on principle (rather than just on browser-implementation-Hixie-veto-override) and thus I'm interested in capturing that on the wiki page so that hopefully we can learn from this analysis about adding a new element and use those lessons when considering new elements in the future. Thanks, Tantek
Re: [whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc)
Hi, There are many points. First, I don't think it's convenient for users to register themselves on many sites, which they visit occasionally. If most of the users do this right now, it does not mean they are happy with this, this is bacause there is no other, more simple way (as simple as just clicking on remember me). Second, user accounts are based on e-mails as a rule, which is not unique at all, every user can have multiple e-mails and multiple registrations. Many web-services struggle against users' reputation spoofing made via such fake accounts. Third, I think it's up to a certain web-service design and requirements, if it needs to identify user accounts or user devices. For example, usage of the same profile on multiple devices can be a violation of a web-service license agreement, or a web-service may bind several devices to the same profile. Multiple browser profiles on the same device do not matter, because the same device ID will be returned. Moving from one device to another, or virtual devices - is just the same thing as having multiple devices considered above. The main point, if device ID could be available it would provide more great possibilities for users and web-services. Best wishes, Stan - Original Message - From: Tobie Langel tobie.lan...@gmail.com To: Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch Cc: Stan stas...@orc.ru; whatwg@lists.whatwg.org Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc) On Dec 13, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012, Stan wrote: The reasoning for this API is the need to uniquely identify every device in many web-applications. Why do you need to identify the device? What about if the user uses the same browser profile on multiple devices? More than half of our users login with multiple user agents on a given day. Or multiple browser profiles on the same device? Perhaps surprisingly, that's a highly common scenario on mobile devices, particularly out of the US. -- tobie
Re: [whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc)
Le 14 déc. 2012 à 17:51, Stan a écrit : If most of the users do this right now, it does not mean they are happy with this, it doesn't mean they are unhappy about it. Or more exactly that a fraction of them can even look for such a feature. Second, user accounts are based on e-mails as a rule, which is not unique at all, every user can have multiple e-mails and multiple registrations. which is a feature, not a bug. Professional account, personal account, cooking-club account, etc. Many web-services struggle against users' reputation spoofing made via such fake accounts. That's a different issue. Multiple browser profiles on the same device do not matter, because the same device ID will be returned. In some countries, in Asia and Africa, a single device can be used by multiple people. Internet cafes are another use cases. And shiny tablets can be also for one family. Basically device != user != web service The main point, if device ID could be available it would provide more great possibilities for users and web-services. And it would create big challenges in usability and privacy. -- Karl Dubost - http://dev.opera.com/ Developer Relations, Opera Software
Re: [whatwg] API for unique identification of devices (mobile/tablet/pc)
On Friday, 14. December 2012 at 08:52, Karl Dubost wrote: Le 14 déc. 2012 à 17:51, Stan a écrit : If most of the users do this right now, it does not mean they are happy with this, it doesn't mean they are unhappy about it. Or more exactly that a fraction of them can even look for such a feature. Second, user accounts are based on e-mails as a rule, which is not unique at all, every user can have multiple e-mails and multiple registrations. which is a feature, not a bug. Professional account, personal account, cooking-club account, etc. You can already simplify the login and signup process by using a technique like Persona by Mozilla which makes it easy to register an account for the user. Multiple browser profiles on the same device do not matter, because the same device ID will be returned. In some countries, in Asia and Africa, a single device can be used by multiple people. Internet cafes are another use cases. And shiny tablets can be also for one family. It is just not offered on iPad. Android 4.2 introduced it and the response from the users is amazing. Many people share a tablet in family also in Europe (and I think in US, too). The main point, if device ID could be available it would provide more great possibilities for users and web-services. And it would create big challenges in usability and privacy. That would be the biggest challenge I think. Privacy would be fully exposed to the web service and that for good reason won't work (at least) in the EU. So this technique would be illegal to use in European countries regarding current privacy laws. Cheers, -Anselm
