Re: [whatwg] HTML5 competing with XML
A clean way to insert extraneous elements into SGML is to use NOTATION entities. This does not work for HTML and it has never worked, although TBL did have such an idea for images at the very beginning. It cannot be done because it is extremely inconvenient for the author/publisher and very insecure on the WWW. Otherwise, you can think of MATH and SVG in HTML5 as an analogue of SCRIPT, which is of course very weak - but you cannot verify the validity of JavaScript code with a DTD either. And you can have a DTD for XHTML5 with MathML and SVG using XML modularization (although the WHATWG does not provide you with one). The DTD in question would of course be an upper approximation of what is allowed. HTH, Chris
Re: [whatwg] HTML5 competing with XML
On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Anton Frattaroli wrote: > > Allowing XML namespaces to be "inserted" into HTML5 is a neat feature, > but challenges its definition as a subset of XML. As others have noted, HTML5 in text/html isn't XML. If you want to use HTML5 with XML you have to use XHTML5, which does require you to declare your namespaces, as per the XML specification. > Mixing markup languages also makes the DOCTYPE declaration pretty much > null and void. What's the point of a DTD if you're going to add in > other DTDs? We don't have DTDs in HTML5. > This is really challenging the whole direction the w3c has pointed out > for SGML. HTML5 doesn't use SGML at all. HTH, -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Re: [whatwg] HTML5 competing with XML
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Thomas Broyer wrote: > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Anton Frattaroli wrote: >> Mixing markup languages also makes the DOCTYPE declaration pretty much null >> and void. What’s the point of a DTD if you’re going to add in other DTDs? > > There's no DTD for HTML5, so… To be even more specific, HTML5 isn't an SGML-based language at all. It merely bears superficial resemblance to SGML-based languages such as HTML4. ~TJ
Re: [whatwg] HTML5 competing with XML
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Anton Frattaroli wrote: > I just read about how other markup languages (e.g. MathML, SVG) will be > implicitly namespace’d when put into an appropriate tag here: > > http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-July/020740.html > > Allowing XML namespaces to be “inserted” into HTML5 is a neat feature, but > challenges its definition as a subset of XML. I don’t believe the XML 1.0 > specification allows this. Implicit namespaces are a specificity of the text/html serialization; on the other hand, application/xhtml+xml is XML and you have to play by the XML rules: declare namespaces and eventually bind them to prefixes; HTML5 doesn't change those rules. > Mixing markup languages also makes the DOCTYPE declaration pretty much null > and void. What’s the point of a DTD if you’re going to add in other DTDs? There's no DTD for HTML5, so… -- Thomas Broyer
[whatwg] HTML5 competing with XML
I just read about how other markup languages (e.g. MathML, SVG) will be implicitly namespace'd when put into an appropriate tag here: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-July/020740.htm l Allowing XML namespaces to be "inserted" into HTML5 is a neat feature, but challenges its definition as a subset of XML. I don't believe the XML 1.0 specification allows this. The XHTML specification would allow a module to be added on to it (in the form of a DTD fragment), but in this case it would no longer be its own markup language, but an add-on to HTML5. Mixing markup languages also makes the DOCTYPE declaration pretty much null and void. What's the point of a DTD if you're going to add in other DTDs? This is really challenging the whole direction the w3c has pointed out for SGML. -frattaro
