Re: [whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
Am 09.03.2011 06:51 schrieb Jukka K. Korpela: Jonas Sicking wrote: I'm having a little bit hard of a time figuring out what a good UI would look like in the general case. I.e. what should the UI look like for input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist exclusive datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th option value=2012-06-06 label=National Day of Sweden /datalist Do you allow flipping between only the months which have any available dates in them using the next/previous month buttons in the date picker? That would be the idea, I guess, but there are two alternatives regarding months that have no applicable days: either skip them or gray them out. So in your example, when in April 2011, Next month button could take you to June 2012, or it might take you to to May 2011 with all days grayed out It should definitely be the latter, as Next month taking you to somewhere else than the next month is confusing. IIRC I have seen JS date pickers behave like that, but I am sorry I don't remember where it was. Even in a rare use case where several months are totally grayed out, the user needs the information that no dates are available there - else (s)he will assume a technical error or somewhat.
Re: [whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:51:25 -0800, Jonas Sicking wrote: On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: Am 08.03.2011 19:02 schrieb Anne van Kesteren: On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:26:56 +0100, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: For example, consider a date picker. Quite often, whether trying to make dates or selling flights, there is a known set of (non-consecutive) days that are possible, so we would like to write, say, input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th /datalist (...) / Jonas I was thinking.. what about allowing big time spans, like: from April 1st to June 30th? Giving that the date has - as date element separators we could not use 1-MM1-DD1-2-MM2-DD2. Couldn't this be useful? Even more common might the usecase where a date must be from some date onward (or until some date). How is this addressed? - Diogo
Re: [whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
Am 09.03.2011 12:19 schrieb Diogo Resende: On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:51:25 -0800, Jonas Sicking wrote: On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: Am 08.03.2011 19:02 schrieb Anne van Kesteren: On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:26:56 +0100, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: For example, consider a date picker. Quite often, whether trying to make dates or selling flights, there is a known set of (non-consecutive) days that are possible, so we would like to write, say, input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th /datalist (...) / Jonas I was thinking.. what about allowing big time spans, like: from April 1st to June 30th? Giving that the date has - as date element separators we could not use 1-MM1-DD1-2-MM2-DD2. Couldn't this be useful? Even more common might the usecase where a date must be from some date onward (or until some date). How is this addressed? I assume that this is only a problem if you need to allow/disallow several periods in the same date picker. For one single period, or allowing dates only from or up to some date, you can use min and max attributes in the input type=date element.
[whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
Am 08.03.2011 19:02 schrieb Anne van Kesteren: On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:26:56 +0100, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: For example, consider a date picker. Quite often, whether trying to make dates or selling flights, there is a known set of (non-consecutive) days that are possible, so we would like to write, say, input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th /datalist This is currently conforming, though no browser seems to make use of the datalist. A good implementation would open up a calendar for April, with only days 1, 8, 9 selectable and day 1 highlighted. Many existing applications use such interfaces, so there is apparent need for them. Agreed that we should fix this, but note that datalist is for additional or pre-suggested options. The idea is that the user still has choice so the other days should be selectable too. Which means in the mentioned use case, that the user can select a date when no flight is actually available. We can of course validate the input and ask the user to select another date, but still this results in sub-optimal user experience (and extra JS code). The exclusive attribute suggested by Jukka K. Korpela for the datalist element would change this behaviour, making unavailable options unselectable. I hope very much that this proposal will make it into the standard. Except for date/time and color input elements, I can also imagine use cases regarding the range element (if a part of the range is not available).
Re: [whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:46:41 +0100, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: I hope very much that this proposal will make it into the standard. Except for date/time and color input elements, I can also imagine use cases regarding the range element (if a part of the range is not available). We should probably get the existing functionality implemented a bit better first. :-) -- Anne van Kesteren http://annevankesteren.nl/
Re: [whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Markus Ernst derer...@gmx.ch wrote: Am 08.03.2011 19:02 schrieb Anne van Kesteren: On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:26:56 +0100, Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi wrote: For example, consider a date picker. Quite often, whether trying to make dates or selling flights, there is a known set of (non-consecutive) days that are possible, so we would like to write, say, input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th /datalist This is currently conforming, though no browser seems to make use of the datalist. A good implementation would open up a calendar for April, with only days 1, 8, 9 selectable and day 1 highlighted. Many existing applications use such interfaces, so there is apparent need for them. Agreed that we should fix this, but note that datalist is for additional or pre-suggested options. The idea is that the user still has choice so the other days should be selectable too. Which means in the mentioned use case, that the user can select a date when no flight is actually available. We can of course validate the input and ask the user to select another date, but still this results in sub-optimal user experience (and extra JS code). The exclusive attribute suggested by Jukka K. Korpela for the datalist element would change this behaviour, making unavailable options unselectable. I hope very much that this proposal will make it into the standard. Except for date/time and color input elements, I can also imagine use cases regarding the range element (if a part of the range is not available). I'm having a little bit hard of a time figuring out what a good UI would look like in the general case. I.e. what should the UI look like for input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist exclusive datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th option value=2012-06-06 label=National Day of Sweden /datalist Do you allow flipping between only the months which have any available dates in them using the next/previous month buttons in the date picker? That seems like it could be somewhat confusing. And how/where do you show the labels? Or do you do some type of dropdown without a date picker at all? How would that be different from just a select? There's not really any point in adding a feature unless we can also think of good UI for it. We don't need to specify UI (in fact, we shouldn't), but we have to make sure that good UI is possible. Authors need to be able to depend on that the UI will look decent and blend in with their page, otherwise they won't want to use the feature. / Jonas
Re: [whatwg] datalist @exclusive [was: Please reconsider: Set restricted palette for input type=color]
Jonas Sicking wrote: I'm having a little bit hard of a time figuring out what a good UI would look like in the general case. I.e. what should the UI look like for input type=date id=date name=date value=2011-04-01 list=datelist exclusive datalist id=datelist option value=2011-04-01 label=April 1st option value=2011-04-08 label=April 8th option value=2011-04-09 label=April 9th option value=2012-06-06 label=National Day of Sweden /datalist Do you allow flipping between only the months which have any available dates in them using the next/previous month buttons in the date picker? That would be the idea, I guess, but there are two alternatives regarding months that have no applicable days: either skip them or gray them out. So in your example, when in April 2011, Next month button could take you to June 2012, or it might take you to to May 2011 with all days grayed out That seems like it could be somewhat confusing. Mildly, I would say, and the example is somewhat anomalous. In typical use cases, dates are relatively close to each other. And how/where do you show the labels? They could be shown on mouseover. Alternatively, a datalist exclusive could be implemented as a dropdown or listbox, showing the labels (or, in their absence, the value attributes) as selectable items. Or do you do some type of dropdown without a date picker at all? That would be an acceptable implementation. How would that be different from just a select? Select is generic, like input type=text, as opposite to input type=date, input type=color etc. So an implementation cannot implement select in a content-aware way, like a date or color picker, but it can (and hopefully will, but it is not required to) implement e.g. input type=date with associated datalist as a date picker with some dates highlighted and possibly (when the proposed new exclusive attribute is used) all other dates grayed out. -- Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
