subject:"Re\: \[Wien\] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root\(2\)\?"

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-27 Thread Gavin Abo


Sorry, in line 859 I saw plasm2 and totally overlooked the SQRT:

858:   if(SPIN.and.(ASO.eq.'SO')) then
859: WRITE(6,618) (SQRT(plasm2(npcol(i))),i=1,LCOL)

So what I previously posted was nonsense.  In looks like w_pl(up-spin) 
is what is outputted in case.outputjointup for a spin-polarized spin 
orbit calculation.


So, w_pl^2(dn-spin) = w_pl^2(up-spin).  Plugging that into the SP 
(without spin orbit) plasma frequency equation:


w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(up-spin) )
w_pl = sqrt(2*w_pl^2(up-spin) )
w_pl = sqrt(2)*sqrt(w_pl^2(up-spin))
w_pl = sqrt(2)*w_pl(up-spin)

sqrt(2)*2.074 sqrt(2)*2.074 sqrt(2)*1.264

or case.inkram I think would need to be:

2.933 2.933 1.788

Note: Since sqrt(2) = 2/sqrt(2) [ 
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/58248.html ], the above 
equation could also be written as:


w_pl = 2*w_pl(up-spin)/sqrt(2)

On 10/27/2017 10:53 AM, Gavin Abo wrote:


Thanks.

So if understand correctly, the w_pl^2(up-spin) is what is outputted 
in case.outputjointup for a spin-polarized spin orbit calculation by 
line 859 of joint.f in the post:


https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg16552.html

So, w_pl^2(dn-spin) = w_pl^2(up-spin).  Plugging that into the SP 
(without spin orbit) plasma frequency equation from your post below:


w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(up-spin) )
w_pl = sqrt(2*w_pl^2(up-spin) )
w_pl = sqrt(2)*w_pl(up-spin)  <= This showing why we need to get rid 
of the sqrt(2) by dividing the sqrt(2)*w_pl(up-spin) by the sqrt(2) to 
get the plasma frequency w_pl equal to w_pl(up-spin).


So one needs to calculate (w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(up-spin))/sqrt(2) 
[or (2*w_pl^2(up-spin))/sqrt(2)] to get the plasma frequency like in 
the post at:


https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg16017.html

So the mistake I made was the missing multiplication by 2 in my 
previous post:


https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg16615.html

2*2.074/sqrt(2) 2*2.074/sqrt(2) 2*1.264/sqrt(2)

or

2.933 2.933 1.788

Or do I still have something not quite right?

On 10/27/2017 12:44 AM, Fecher, Gerhard wrote:

The optics programm tells about the SP Plasma frequencies:
w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(dn-spin) )

where does this come from
remember the classical approach where the plasma frequency is proportional to 
root(n) with n being the density of free electrons (number of electrons per 
Volume)
now what do you have in the SP case ? Shouldn't that be root/n_up+n_dn) ?
The programm however delivers  w_up proportional to root(n_up) and w_dn prop to 
root(n_dn) and you see where the above equation is comming from

Finally show what happens when the two densities are equal  n_up=n_dn and you 
see where the root(2) is coming from and when to use it

(Note that the root(2) is here not because of surface plasmons)

Ciao
Gerhard

DEEP THOUGHT in D. Adams; Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
"I think the problem, to be quite honest with you,
is that you have never actually known what the question is."


Dr. Gerhard H. Fecher
Institut of Inorganic and Analytical Chemistry
Johannes Gutenberg - University
55099 Mainz
and
Max Planck Institute for Chemical Physics of Solids
01187 Dresden

Von: Wien [wien-boun...@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at] im Auftrag von Gavin Abo 
[gs...@crimson.ua.edu]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 00:42
An:wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
Betreff: Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

I could be wrong, but I think you just need to take the sqrt(2) of each plasma 
frequency:

2.074/sqrt(2) 2.074/sqrt(2) 1.264/sqrt(2)

then put them in case.inkram (not case.injoint).

You should be able to use multiple plasma frequencies in case.inkram but don't 
forget to add a Gamma for drude value for each of the plasma frequencies 
[https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg14495.html  ].

On 10/21/2017 4:29 PM, Dr. K. C. Bhamu wrote:

-case.injoint
xx
xx
1  >> correction
2.0740  2.0740  1.2640
xx
---

were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.



At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig transformation) in 
UG"


"For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for up and dn should be 
added, but then divided by√2, before using x kram."

Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then divide by 
root(2) and put a single number [(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88] instead of 
all three in case.injoint?


kind regards

Bhamu
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-27 Thread Gavin Abo


Thanks.

So if understand correctly, the w_pl^2(up-spin) is what is outputted in 
case.outputjointup for a spin-polarized spin orbit calculation by line 
859 of joint.f in the post:


https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg16552.html

So, w_pl^2(dn-spin) = w_pl^2(up-spin).  Plugging that into the SP 
(without spin orbit) plasma frequency equation from your post below:


w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(up-spin) )
w_pl = sqrt(2*w_pl^2(up-spin) )
w_pl = sqrt(2)*w_pl(up-spin)  <= This showing why we need to get rid of 
the sqrt(2) by dividing the sqrt(2)*w_pl(up-spin) by the sqrt(2) to get 
the plasma frequency w_pl equal to w_pl(up-spin).


So one needs to calculate (w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(up-spin))/sqrt(2) 
[or (2*w_pl^2(up-spin))/sqrt(2)] to get the plasma frequency like in the 
post at:


https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg16017.html

So the mistake I made was the missing multiplication by 2 in my previous 
post:


https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg16615.html

2*2.074/sqrt(2) 2*2.074/sqrt(2) 2*1.264/sqrt(2)

or

2.933 2.933 1.788

Or do I still have something not quite right?

On 10/27/2017 12:44 AM, Fecher, Gerhard wrote:

The optics programm tells about the SP Plasma frequencies:
w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(dn-spin) )

where does this come from
remember the classical approach where the plasma frequency is proportional to 
root(n) with n being the density of free electrons (number of electrons per 
Volume)
now what do you have in the SP case ? Shouldn't that be root/n_up+n_dn) ?
The programm however delivers  w_up proportional to root(n_up) and w_dn prop to 
root(n_dn) and you see where the above equation is comming from

Finally show what happens when the two densities are equal  n_up=n_dn and you 
see where the root(2) is coming from and when to use it

(Note that the root(2) is here not because of surface plasmons)

Ciao
Gerhard

DEEP THOUGHT in D. Adams; Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
"I think the problem, to be quite honest with you,
is that you have never actually known what the question is."


Dr. Gerhard H. Fecher
Institut of Inorganic and Analytical Chemistry
Johannes Gutenberg - University
55099 Mainz
and
Max Planck Institute for Chemical Physics of Solids
01187 Dresden

Von: Wien [wien-boun...@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at] im Auftrag von Gavin Abo 
[gs...@crimson.ua.edu]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 00:42
An: wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
Betreff: Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

I could be wrong, but I think you just need to take the sqrt(2) of each plasma 
frequency:

2.074/sqrt(2) 2.074/sqrt(2) 1.264/sqrt(2)

then put them in case.inkram (not case.injoint).

You should be able to use multiple plasma frequencies in case.inkram but don't 
forget to add a Gamma for drude value for each of the plasma frequencies [ 
https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg14495.html ].

On 10/21/2017 4:29 PM, Dr. K. C. Bhamu wrote:

-case.injoint
xx
xx
1  >> correction
2.0740  2.0740  1.2640
xx
---

were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.



At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig transformation) in 
UG"


"For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for up and dn should be 
added, but then divided by√2, before using x kram."

Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then divide by 
root(2) and put a single number [(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88] instead of 
all three in case.injoint?


kind regards

Bhamu
___
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-27 Thread Dr. K. C. Bhamu

Thank you Prof. Gerhard for taking concern over the issue!

I really do not know whats happening inside the code about the concept of
sqrt(2).





But I tried all possible combinations. With sqrt(2), without sqrt(2). With
TETRA 101 or 0.000.

The w_pl is same for up and dn spin.

In one test I saw in case.outputjointup/dn

   !!! WARNING: w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(dn-spin) )!!!


Regards

Bhamu





The optics programm tells about the SP Plasma frequencies:
> w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(dn-spin) )
>




>
> where does this come from
> remember the classical approach where the plasma frequency is proportional
> to root(n) with n being the density of free electrons (number of electrons
> per Volume)
>





> now what do you have in the SP case ? Shouldn't that be root/n_up+n_dn) ?
> The programm however delivers  w_up proportional to root(n_up) and w_dn
> prop to root(n_dn) and you see where the above equation is comming from
>
> Finally show what happens when the two densities are equal  n_up=n_dn and
> you see where the root(2) is coming from and when to use it
>
> (Note that the root(2) is here not because of surface plasmons)
>
> Ciao
> Gerhard
>
> DEEP THOUGHT in D. Adams; Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
> "I think the problem, to be quite honest with you,
> is that you have never actually known what the question is."
>
> 
> Dr. Gerhard H. Fecher
> Institut of Inorganic and Analytical Chemistry
> Johannes Gutenberg - University
> 55099 Mainz
> and
> Max Planck Institute for Chemical Physics of Solids
> 01187 Dresden
> 
> Von: Wien [wien-boun...@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at] im Auftrag von Gavin
> Abo [gs...@crimson.ua.edu]
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 00:42
> An: wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
> Betreff: Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?
>
> I could be wrong, but I think you just need to take the sqrt(2) of each
> plasma frequency:
>
> 2.074/sqrt(2) 2.074/sqrt(2) 1.264/sqrt(2)
>
> then put them in case.inkram (not case.injoint).
>
> You should be able to use multiple plasma frequencies in case.inkram but
> don't forget to add a Gamma for drude value for each of the plasma
> frequencies [ https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.
> at/msg14495.html ].
>
> On 10/21/2017 4:29 PM, Dr. K. C. Bhamu wrote:
>
> -case.injoint
> xx
> xx
> 1  >> correction
> 2.0740  2.0740  1.2640
> xx
> ---
>
> were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.
>
>
>
> At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig
> transformation) in UG"
>
>
> "For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for up and dn
> should be added, but then divided by√2, before using x kram."
>
> Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then divide by
> root(2) and put a single number [(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88]
> instead of all three in case.injoint?
>
>
> kind regards
>
> Bhamu
> ___
> Wien mailing list
> Wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
> http://zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/wien
> SEARCH the MAILING-LIST at:  http://www.mail-archive.com/
> wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/index.html
>
___
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SEARCH the MAILING-LIST at:  
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-27 Thread Fecher, Gerhard

The optics programm tells about the SP Plasma frequencies: 
w_pl = sqrt( w_pl^2(up-spin) + w_pl^2(dn-spin) )

where does this come from
remember the classical approach where the plasma frequency is proportional to 
root(n) with n being the density of free electrons (number of electrons per 
Volume)
now what do you have in the SP case ? Shouldn't that be root/n_up+n_dn) ?
The programm however delivers  w_up proportional to root(n_up) and w_dn prop to 
root(n_dn) and you see where the above equation is comming from

Finally show what happens when the two densities are equal  n_up=n_dn and you 
see where the root(2) is coming from and when to use it

(Note that the root(2) is here not because of surface plasmons)

Ciao
Gerhard

DEEP THOUGHT in D. Adams; Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
"I think the problem, to be quite honest with you,
is that you have never actually known what the question is."


Dr. Gerhard H. Fecher
Institut of Inorganic and Analytical Chemistry
Johannes Gutenberg - University
55099 Mainz
and
Max Planck Institute for Chemical Physics of Solids
01187 Dresden

Von: Wien [wien-boun...@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at] im Auftrag von Gavin Abo 
[gs...@crimson.ua.edu]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Oktober 2017 00:42
An: wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
Betreff: Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

I could be wrong, but I think you just need to take the sqrt(2) of each plasma 
frequency:

2.074/sqrt(2) 2.074/sqrt(2) 1.264/sqrt(2)

then put them in case.inkram (not case.injoint).

You should be able to use multiple plasma frequencies in case.inkram but don't 
forget to add a Gamma for drude value for each of the plasma frequencies [ 
https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg14495.html ].

On 10/21/2017 4:29 PM, Dr. K. C. Bhamu wrote:

-case.injoint
xx
xx
1  >> correction
2.0740  2.0740  1.2640
xx
---

were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.



At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig transformation) in 
UG"


"For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for up and dn 
should be added, but then divided by√2, before using x kram."

Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then divide by 
root(2) and put a single number [(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88] instead of 
all three in case.injoint?


kind regards

Bhamu
___
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http://zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/wien
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-21 Thread Dr. K. C. Bhamu

Thank you Gavin for a quick reply.

I will follow all of your advice and will report if I face any difficulty.

Bhamu




On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Gavin Abo  wrote:

> I could be wrong, but I think you just need to take the sqrt(2) of each
> plasma frequency:
>
> 2.074/sqrt(2) 2.074/sqrt(2) 1.264/sqrt(2)
>
> then put them in case.inkram (not case.injoint).
> You should be able to use multiple plasma frequencies in case.inkram but
> don't forget to add a Gamma for drude value for each of the plasma
> frequencies [ https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.
> at/msg14495.html ].
>
> On 10/21/2017 4:29 PM, Dr. K. C. Bhamu wrote:
>
>
>> -case.injoint
>> xx
>> xx
>> 1  >> correction
>> 2.0740  2.0740  1.2640
>> xx
>> ---
>>
>> were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.
>>
>>
>>
>> At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig
>> transformation) in UG"
>>
>>
>> *"For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for up and
>> dn should be added, but then divided by√2, before using x kram." *
>>
>> Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then divide by
>> root(2) and put a single number [(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88]
>> instead of all three in case.injoint?
>>
>>
>> kind regards
>>
>> Bhamu
>>
>
> ___
> Wien mailing list
> Wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
> http://zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/wien
> SEARCH the MAILING-LIST at:  http://www.mail-archive.com/
> wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/index.html
>
>
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-21 Thread Gavin Abo

I could be wrong, but I think you just need to take the sqrt(2) of each 
plasma frequency:


2.074/sqrt(2) 2.074/sqrt(2) 1.264/sqrt(2)

then put them in case.inkram (not case.injoint).

You should be able to use multiple plasma frequencies in case.inkram but 
don't forget to add a Gamma for drude value for each of the plasma 
frequencies [ 
https://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/msg14495.html 
].


On 10/21/2017 4:29 PM, Dr. K. C. Bhamu wrote:



-case.injoint
xx
xx
1 >> correction
2.0740 2.0740 1.2640
xx
---

were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.



At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig
transformation) in UG"


*"For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for
up and dn should be added, but then divided by√2, before using x
kram." *

Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then
divide by root(2) and put a single number
[(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88] instead of all three in
case.injoint?


kind regards

Bhamu

___
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

2017-10-21 Thread Dr. K. C. Bhamu

>
>
> -case.injoint
> xx
> xx
> 1  >> correction
> 2.0740  2.0740  1.2640
> xx
> ---
>
> were xx means no change in lines of case.inkram.
>
>
>
> At page numer  164 under section "8.11 KRAM (Kramers-Kronig
> transformation) in UG"
>
>
> *"For a metal, the Plasma-frequencies (intraband transitions) for up and
> dn should be added, but then divided by√2, before using x kram." *
>
> Does it mean that we need to add all three components and then divide by
> root(2) and put a single number [(2.074+2.074+1.264)/root(2)=3.88]
> instead of all three in case.injoint?
>
>
> kind regards
>
> Bhamu
>
>
___
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http://zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/wien
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Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

Re: [Wien] why we need to divide plasma frequency by root(2)?

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