[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #62 from Nemo  ---
While we wait for screenshots here, I've loaded the icon at its default size of
13px and out of context I would have called it a sunset over a hill. I guess
that *is* gender neutral, no idea how clear it is.

See also bug 45056 comment 15.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #61 from Gerrit Notification Bot  ---
Change 146979 had a related patch set uploaded by Robmoen:
Make profile icon gender neutral.  Remove from Login link

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/146979

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Gerrit Notification Bot  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |PATCH_TO_REVIEW

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #60 from Amgine  ---
This idea has already been discussed in this bug (starting around comment 9,
17) and was discussed in other bugs (35341) and has its own bug (45056).

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #59 from Steven Walling  ---
(In reply to Nemo from comment #57)
> The problem in this bug is very well defined and it has nothing to do with
> your proposed solution. Your proposal is a solution for the supposed problem
> "personal toolbar personalises", which is a) different, b) not agreed upon
> as a problem. It's possible that the two problems will be resolved by a
> single solution in the end, but collapsing them in a single report doesn't
> help anything.

When a problem comes up with a current design (whether it's an icon, a button,
or a whole feature), it is extremely useful to go back to basic principles and
talk about why something is needed in the first place. Questioning whether a
design element is necessary hones in on why it's important. If we understand
why it's important, then if we want to keep it, we can be clearer about what
it's supposed to be doing. 

TL;DR: all options are on the table. If you don't like it, we can always go
discuss this on the more open-ended bug I filed. But berating a designer for
having ideas is not progress.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #58 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
I don't know what "personal toolbar personalises" means, can you
explain/clarify?

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #57 from Nemo  ---
The problem in this bug is very well defined and it has nothing to do with your
proposed solution. Your proposal is a solution for the supposed problem
"personal toolbar personalises", which is a) different, b) not agreed upon as a
problem. It's possible that the two problems will be resolved by a single
solution in the end, but collapsing them in a single report doesn't help
anything.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #56 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
Nemo, bugs shouldn't neccesarily express a solution, the problem here is "icon
represents gender" it's easy to assume the fix is "make a better icon" when the
problem could just as easily be "don't have an icon" when we presuppose a
solution we close ourselves off to many possible correct conclusions for the
same issue. 

Pre- and post- login icons are currently the same asset by the way, to answer
your question.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #55 from Nemo  ---
What is the pre-login or post-login icon? Jared, please file a separate bug
report for separate issues. This bug is not about removing the icon.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-10 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #54 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
Created attachment 15907
  --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=15907&action=edit
post login

see post login sketch

- icon removed
- additional per item padding added
- right margin adjusted to align with search.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-10 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #53 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
I propose we remove the post-login icon for now, and when wikifont is in core
we can add the updated icon then. We have personal bar instrumented right now,
so we'll be able to see if there is any dropoff from users based on the removed
icon.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-10 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #52 from Steven Walling  ---
(In reply to Jared Zimmerman (WMF) from comment #51)
> Created attachment 15906 [details]
> no icon -> mediawiki.ui controls
> 
> How about for now we just remove the icon altogether, pre-login we should
> use medaiwiki.ui controls, and post login, just remove the existing icon.

I think this is the right way to go for login. 

Not sure about removing the icon for once you're logged in. It does provide
value, in that it denotes that the menu items are related to you personally. I
think if we try something simpler (the version May did pushed things a bit in
terms of personality and verve) then we can easily replace it. Munaf is working
on something in conjunction with our designs for a task suggestions alpha.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-10 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #11793|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #11794|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #11831|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #13547|0   |1
is obsolete||
  Attachment #13548|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #51 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
Created attachment 15906
  --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=15906&action=edit
no icon -> mediawiki.ui controls

How about for now we just remove the icon altogether, pre-login we should use
medaiwiki.ui controls, and post login, just remove the existing icon.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-07-10 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Kunal Mehta (Legoktm)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||swall...@wikimedia.org

--- Comment #50 from Kunal Mehta (Legoktm)  ---
*** Bug 67837 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-06-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||66138

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2014-06-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Tyler Romeo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||matma@gmail.com,
   ||roan.katt...@gmail.com
  Component|Skin and page rendering |Vector
Product|MediaWiki   |MediaWiki skins

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-12-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Quim Gil  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard|gci2013 |
   |https://www.mediawiki.org/w |
   |iki/Google_Code-In#Candidat |
   |e_tasks |

--- Comment #49 from Quim Gil  ---
Hi RituS! Actually I don't think this bug at this point is the best first task
for a new contributor. We have many other bugs to choose from at 

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Annoying_little_bugs

The reason is...

(In reply to comment #39)
> Removing easy keyword; the implementation may be easy, but as we still
> haven't 
> agreed on what to do with this, it's probably not something we'd necessarily
> want to bring a new person into.

I agree. Have we agreed on a plan? If so, a new comment summarizing the work
that needs to be done is welcome. With 48 comments and 5 attachments, the
chances to work on something that won't be directly merged are high.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-12-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #48 from Andre Klapper  ---
Hi RituS, thanks for your interest! Please see
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access and
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gerrit/Tutorial for information and also for
where to receive help with the general development setup.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-12-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

RituS  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rituspa...@gmail.com

--- Comment #47 from RituS  ---
Hey!
I'm a newbie to mediawiki and I would like to work on this bug! Could somebody
navigate me through the required procedure?

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-23 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Bartosz Dziewoński  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|53732   |
   See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia.
   ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=53732

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #46 from Isarra  ---
(In reply to comment #40)
> 
> As you point out, it should likely be anthropomorphic. Blue is used for
> accent in the skin, but every icon and graphic is monochromatic grey
> (http://ur1.ca/fx8u3, search) - as should be this one.

Good point - I must have been thinking of some extension icons I'd seen that
were link-coloured.

(In reply to comment #44)
> Created attachment 13548 [details]
> Profile icon

As I said, an icon like that defeats the purpose of having a user icon in the
first place, as it is not immediately recognisable as 'user account' related
and thus does not adequately function as a graphical label for the personal
tools. Indeed, that it is so similar to the echo thanks thing should help
explain why it isn't appropriate here.

The one Munaf made or one of the ones thehelpfulone linked would be much more
appropriate and effective. May need to fix the colours/weight for the skin, but
that is the direction this should be taking. Or rather that it should never
have left.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #45 from MZMcBride  ---
(In reply to comment #43)
> Created attachment 13547 [details]
> Example use of icon

I want to say that I appreciate all of the work that the design team does. Good
design on our projects and in our products is important. A rich, meaningful,
and aesthetically pleasing user experience is something that every user who
visits our sites or uses our services should have.

That said, sweet Jesus no, we will not be putting that icon anywhere near
MediaWiki core or Wikimedia wikis. It conjures up [[blackface]] in the mind and
will be viewed by many users to be offensive and completely inappropriate. This
icon flatly will not work.

In seeing another squared-headed smiley face in the wrong color, I'm reminded
of bug 51927. (Oh, it's already marked as a "see also." Hrm.)

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #43 from mgallo...@wikimedia.org ---
Created attachment 13547
  --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=13547&action=edit
Example use of icon

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

mgallo...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Attachment #13009|0   |1
is obsolete||

--- Comment #44 from mgallo...@wikimedia.org ---
Created attachment 13548
  --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=13548&action=edit
Profile icon

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #42 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
Realized the asset uploaded was slightly out of date, May is uploading the
correct asset and mockup now. 

I feel that the asset she's uploading (a variation on the original she posted)
head and shoulders (ha!) better than what we have now. its a small change, I'd
prefer to integrate it, since its in-line with the user icon on mobile as well
as upcoming multi-media features. Stay tuned for the updated asset in just a
bit.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #41 from Amgine  ---
Hmmph.
https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.22wmf21/extensions/UniversalLanguageSelector/resources/images/cog-sprite.svg?2013-10-10T16:45:00Z
works just fine... 

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #40 from Amgine  ---
(In reply to comment #39)
...
> It seems rather like we're stuck on a choice - whether to be intuitive and
> clear or to not offend people. Strange choice, since no matter what you do
> you'll pretty much always wind up offending or disturbing someone if you've a
> broad enough audience.

Nonsense.

As you point out, it should likely be anthropomorphic. Blue is used for accent
in the skin, but every icon and graphic is monochromatic grey
(http://ur1.ca/fx8u3, search) - as should be this one.

Aesthetically not the best choice for some people, but it's likely the least
offending (even to the designers) compromise and we're all just waiting for
someone to point this out and force the stakeholders to grow up and accept the
compromise.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Isarra  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|easy|

--- Comment #39 from Isarra  ---
Removing easy keyword; the implementation may be easy, but as we still haven't
agreed on what to do with this, it's probably not something we'd necessarily
want to bring a new person into.

There are arguments here that an icon is not needed at all, but based on what
Trevor said, even if it isn't needed, it's definitely useful. To remain useful,
however, it needs to also remain a recognisable 'user' icon - that rules out
anything with too much abstraction that wouldn't necessarily have the same
meaning to the user, like a smiley face or animal (even without added issues
those might present such as those Siddhartha Ghai points out), and brings us
back to the more standard head and shoulders, which arguably tend to look male.
Blue, which fits the skin, is apparently also problematic because in some
cultures blue is associated with masculinity.

It seems rather like we're stuck on a choice - whether to be intuitive and
clear or to not offend people. Strange choice, since no matter what you do
you'll pretty much always wind up offending or disturbing someone if you've a
broad enough audience.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard||gci2013
   ||https://www.mediawiki.org/w
   ||iki/Google_Code-In#Candidat
   ||e_tasks

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||easy

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Siddhartha Ghai  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||siddhartha.g...@gmail.com

--- Comment #38 from Siddhartha Ghai  ---
(In reply to comment #28)
> Another design practice that I'm a fan of is to go with more abstract user
> icons or animal icons e.g. github's
> https://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/8063/screenshots/873671/
> github_icon_vector_shape_teaser.png

I'd just like to point out that animal icons would not be wise since languages
may associate certain animals with certain genders by default. For example, a
user with native language hindi might consider a cat icon to be female and a
lion to be male. Cat: male: बिल्ला, female: बिल्ली, latter is what is generally
default usage. Lion invokes a male idea since hindi, like English, defaults to
lion (शेर), not lioness (शेरनी)

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-02 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Quim Gil  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia.
   ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=51927

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-10-02 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #37 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
Can we get someone to integrate this, we've recently updated the general user
icon used in mobile for user talk, article history, and watchlist, so it would
be great to get this one in sync sooner rather than later.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-09-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Nemo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||53732

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-07-31 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Andre Klapper  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|ASSIGNED|NEW

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-07-30 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #36 from Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  ---
Removed May (visual designer) as the assignee, not that she's uploaded the new
asset from the Echo icon set. Please assign a developer to submit a patch as
needed.

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-07-30 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Jared Zimmerman (WMF)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|mgallo...@wikimedia.org |wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.
   ||org

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-07-29 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

--- Comment #35 from mgallo...@wikimedia.org ---
Created attachment 13009
  --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=13009&action=edit
Profile icon

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[Bug 41484] Default icon in vector for "profile" in personal tools should be gender neutral and fit with other site icons look & feel

2013-06-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41484

Nemo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Default icon in vector for  |Default icon in vector for
   |"profile" should be gender  |"profile" in personal tools
   |neutral and fit with other  |should be gender neutral
   |site icons look & feel  |and fit with other site
   ||icons look & feel

--- Comment #34 from Nemo  ---
Thanks Jared; please leave correct terminology too in the bug summaries for the
purposes of discoverability (the area is called "personal tools").

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