[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Thad Guidry]

I would agree with Nicolas in using the qualifier.
To query the "set" of pronoun forms you would just add another criteria for
the P5830 qualifier using 'pq' prefix as explained
Using qualifiers in Wikidata-SPARQL - Stack Overflow



Thad
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
https://calendly.com/thadguidry/


On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 12:57 PM Nicolas VIGNERON 
wrote:

> Hmmm,
>
> This case seems rare and very hypothetical (did anybody ever did it?),
> but if there is really a need, one could already do this:
>
> Someone <- personal pronoun P6553 -> he L485 <- qualifier : subject
> form P5830 -> he L485-F2
>
> (this is what is already done on lexemes level statements when it
> apply only to some form and not all of them)
>
> Cheers,
> Nicolas
>
> Le jeu. 4 août 2022 à 05:45, Thad Guidry  a écrit :
> >
> > Interesting questions.
> > The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form.  So
> likely this is a new property proposal I guess?
> >
> > Existing example:
> > Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
> >
> > And what you are looking for is another new property that could take
> Lexeme Forms instead of just Lexemes?
> >
> > Example using a new property:
> > Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
> >
> > What do others think of Crystal's use case?
> >
> > Thad
> > https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
> > https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
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[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Crystal E. Clements]

Thank you, Nicolas! There is a need. I was unaware of P5830 , which allows for 
the kind of precision that is needed for personal pronouns. 

-Original Message-
From: Nicolas VIGNERON  
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2022 10:57 AM
To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project 
Subject: [Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

Hmmm,

This case seems rare and very hypothetical (did anybody ever did it?), but if 
there is really a need, one could already do this:

Someone <- personal pronoun P6553 -> he L485 <- qualifier : subject form P5830 
-> he L485-F2

(this is what is already done on lexemes level statements when it apply only to 
some form and not all of them)

Cheers,
Nicolas

Le jeu. 4 août 2022 à 05:45, Thad Guidry  a écrit :
>
> Interesting questions.
> The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form.  So likely 
> this is a new property proposal I guess?
>
> Existing example:
> Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
>
> And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme 
> Forms instead of just Lexemes?
>
> Example using a new property:
> Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er 
> L41653-F4
>
> What do others think of Crystal's use case?
>
> Thad
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
> https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Public archives 
> at 
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.o
> rg/message/ZA6QVZMIOXIKXUZMTKX3QQ7IRKK6ZZJB/
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[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Nicolas VIGNERON]

Hmmm,

This case seems rare and very hypothetical (did anybody ever did it?),
but if there is really a need, one could already do this:

Someone <- personal pronoun P6553 -> he L485 <- qualifier : subject
form P5830 -> he L485-F2

(this is what is already done on lexemes level statements when it
apply only to some form and not all of them)

Cheers,
Nicolas

Le jeu. 4 août 2022 à 05:45, Thad Guidry  a écrit :
>
> Interesting questions.
> The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form.  So likely 
> this is a new property proposal I guess?
>
> Existing example:
> Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
>
> And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme 
> Forms instead of just Lexemes?
>
> Example using a new property:
> Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
>
> What do others think of Crystal's use case?
>
> Thad
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
> https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
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[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Crystal E. Clements]

Yes, this is pretty much what I’m asking. Thanks for helping me clarify Thad!

From: Thad Guidry 
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 8:44 PM
To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project 
Subject: [Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

Interesting questions.
The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form.  So likely this 
is a new property proposal I guess?

Existing example:
Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653

And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme 
Forms instead of just Lexemes?

Example using a new property:
Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4

What do others think of Crystal's use case?
Thad
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
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[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Thad Guidry]

Interesting questions.
The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form.  So likely
this is a new property proposal I guess?

Existing example:
Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653

And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme
Forms instead of just Lexemes?

Example using a new property:
Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4

What do others think of Crystal's use case?

Thad
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
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[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Crystal E. Clements]

Yes!

Trying to represent this scenario:

Hypothetically, someone [wikidata item A] uses a personal pronoun set [wikidata 
property A] of “She/they/theirs/herself”. Another hypothetical person [wikidata 
item B] uses a personal pronoun set [wikidata property A] of 
“He/they/his/himself”.

To say

[Wikidata item A] P6553 L484, L371
Or
[wikidata item b] P6553 L485, L371

Is not correct, because these hypothetical humans only use selected forms of 
these personal pronoun lexemes. I am considering possibilities (not proposing 
any changes, just trying to figure out what’s possible in the Wikidata data 
model) for modeling these differently by grouping forms of lexemes within 
either items or lexemes for sets of pronouns.

So I’m modeling out something like:

[Lexeme set A] [wikidata property “has part”] [lexeme form 1], [lexeme form 2], 
etc.
[wikidata item A] [wikidata property “uses personal pronoun set”] [Lexeme set A]

Or

[lexeme form 1] [wikidata property “item of form”]  [wikidata item C]
[lexeme form 2] [wikidata property “item of form”] [wikidata item D]
[wikidata item E] has part [wikidata item C]
[wikidata item E] has part [wikidata item D]
[wikidata item A] [wikidata property “uses personal pronoun set”] [wikidata 
item E]

But am unsure of whether lexemes can be used in these ways.
From: Thad Guidry 
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 6:40 PM
To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project 
Subject: [Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

Hi Crystal,

Just so we are more clear on the use case for "forms of lexemes", can you give 
one example of some forms you wish to group together with some classification?
Thad
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
https://calendly.com/thadguidry/


On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 5:14 PM Crystal E. Clements 
mailto:ce...@uw.edu>> wrote:
Hello,

I have a few questions about lexicographical data. I am an experienced Wikidata 
editor, but have no experience with lexemes so I’m sorry if this is documented 
somewhere and I failed to find it.

Is it possible to create a property which groups specific forms of lexemes 
together into a set, as has been done with conjunctions but for…not 
conjunctions? If the grouped forms are forms of distinct lexemes, can the 
newly-created set be typed as a lexeme, or should it be classed as an item? If 
creating sets of forms classed as lexemes would break the lexeme data model, 
would it be acceptable to create a property “item of form” similar to “item of 
sense” in order to group forms together as sets?

Any help would be appreciated,

Crystal Clements, MLIS
Science Cataloger
Cataloging and Metadata Services
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, Washington 98195
ce...@uw.edu<mailto:ce...@uw.edu>

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[Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data

[Thad Guidry]

Hi Crystal,

Just so we are more clear on the use case for "forms of lexemes", can you
give one example of some forms you wish to group together with some
classification?

Thad
https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/
https://calendly.com/thadguidry/


On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 5:14 PM Crystal E. Clements  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> I have a few questions about lexicographical data. I am an experienced
> Wikidata editor, but have no experience with lexemes so I’m sorry if this
> is documented somewhere and I failed to find it.
>
>
>
> Is it possible to create a property which groups specific forms of lexemes
> together into a set, as has been done with conjunctions but for…not
> conjunctions? If the grouped forms are forms of distinct lexemes, can the
> newly-created set be typed as a lexeme, or should it be classed as an item?
> If creating sets of forms classed as lexemes would break the lexeme data
> model, would it be acceptable to create a property “item of form” similar
> to “item of sense” in order to group forms together as sets?
>
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
>
>
>
> Crystal Clements, MLIS
>
> Science Cataloger
>
> Cataloging and Metadata Services
>
> University of Washington Libraries
>
> Box 352900
>
> Seattle, Washington 98195
>
> ce...@uw.edu
>
>
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