[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
daniel added a comment. I added tracking for the number of discarded recentchanges entries to the WikidataClient change handling dashboard, see https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/wikidataclient-change-handling-wikipageupdater?orgId=1TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: danielCc: Risker, Elitre, Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
gerritbot added a comment. Change 383551 merged by jenkins-bot: [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Add tracking for fallout from fix for T177707 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/383551TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: gerritbotCc: Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
gerritbot added a comment. Change 383551 had a related patch set uploaded (by Daniel Kinzler; owner: Daniel Kinzler): [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Add tracking for fallout from fix for T177707 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/383551TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: gerritbotCc: Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
gerritbot added a comment. Change 383384 merged by jenkins-bot: [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Quick fix for flooding of the RC table https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/383384TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: gerritbotCc: Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Mike_Peel added a comment. In T177707#3673562, @Bawolff wrote: RelatedChanges, RecentChanges, and watchlist are all the same behind the scenes. They all have the same feasibility concerns. Sure, I thought that this might help reduce the amount of duplicate info stored, since presumably you'd just store the change with the linked item and then be able to pick up that linked item change through RelatedChanges. Apologies if I'm missing the problem.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Mike_PeelCc: Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Bawolff added a comment. In T177707#3673488, @Mike_Peel wrote: "Open question: Where should the cut-off initially be?" - the problem I have here is that it's particularly useful to see changes to highly-used pages, as it's those same pages that need to be watched closer to make sure that vandalism is quickly reverted. E.g. if a country name is vandalised, that needs to be caught quickly. If that's not feasible, then I'm not sure I see the benefit of having a middle-region, perhaps it should only appear for the directly linked page... Or maybe it should show in RelatedChanges rather than RecentChanges. RelatedChanges, RecentChanges, and watchlist are all the same behind the scenes. They all have the same feasibility concerns.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: BawolffCc: Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Mike_Peel added a comment. "Open question: Where should the cut-off initially be?" - the problem I have here is that it's particularly useful to see changes to highly-used pages, as it's those same pages that need to be watched closer to make sure that vandalism is quickly reverted. E.g. if a country name is vandalised, that needs to be caught quickly. If that's not feasible, then I'm not sure I see the benefit of having a middle-region, perhaps it should only appear for the directly linked page... Or maybe it should show in RelatedChanges rather than RecentChanges.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Mike_PeelCc: Mike_Peel, gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, Adik2382, Th3d3v1ls, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
gerritbot added a comment. Change 383384 had a related patch set uploaded (by Daniel Kinzler; owner: Daniel Kinzler): [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Quick fix for flooding of the RC table. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/383384TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: gerritbotCc: gerritbot, Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
daniel added a comment. @jcrespo wrote: No, I was asking to keep recentchanges as it was before, with the previous load/meaning and implement "new features" on separate tables, or on separate servers. Well... it's not really a new feature. The recentchanges table is the standard mechanism for surfacing changes to users via the recentchanges and watchlist UIs and APIs. IF we don't use the recentchanges tbale for this, we have to implement "on the fly join" logic in several places, and make it work efficiently with filtering and paging. This would be a major overhaul, it's not doable on short notice. Also, since you said that you "think the materialization is a wrong approach", we should probably consider getting rid of recentchanges altogether in that case. This can't be done short term, and probably not even mid term. This transition would probably take a couple of years (MCR scale). We can't live without notifications for so long, that would probably kill the SDC project. So we need an alternative solution that is feasible as a mid term solution. Do you have an idea? both start from the idea of implementing table inheritance "wrongly". How is that? In my mind, "table inheritance" refers to the attempt to store entities that share only some properties in a relational database - correctly using references, or wrongly using nullable fields. But how is this the case here? Recentchanges rows that are triggered by wikidata do not have different properties from regular entries. The only difference is in how they are triggered.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: danielCc: Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
jcrespo added a comment. One last thought, it is early to say, but commonswiki seem to have stopped having insert spikes of 100x the normal rate: https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/mysql?panelId=2&fullscreen&orgId=1&var-dc=eqiad%20prometheus%2Fops&var-server=db1068&var-port=9104&from=now-7d&to=now (click "inserts") Something to take into account as a replication performance issue.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: jcrespoCc: Jdforrester-WMF, brion, Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
daniel added a comment. @jcrespo I see no good way to implement your suggestion in Wikibase. If I understand correctly, you are essentially proposing to get rid of the recentchanges table altogether. That may be the right thing to do, but it's not possible in the short term. In fact, it seems like a long term project that will need a lot of deliberation. So, while we can push in that direction, we need a solution that we can implement her and now.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: danielCc: Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
jcrespo added a comment. This is the rate on the last 7 days of Apiqueryrecentchanges: https://logstash.wikimedia.org/goto/7a5cebd94f0120ead4ca10a34f6b2b54 Coincidentally, it is much larger on ruwiki and commons, even if ruwiki was added as backend a borrowed large server.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: jcrespoCc: Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
jcrespo added a comment. I think the materialization is a wrong approach, and we should try to materialize the changes only on query. E.g.: Watchlist x page x wikidata_usage JOINS being queried on real time. Of course, that makes the query an order of magnitude slower and more complex but- some tricks could be used, and memory is probably going to be faster than pure on-disk materialization. That would be the general idea, I do not think it is easy, but at least it would not affect queries not requiring including Wikidata changes and it would not be dangerous for other reasons (see NDA related tickets). Recentchanges has already been affected because bad performance queries where possible in the past, with the new materialized entries, those are not taking over 60 seconds to execute and fail to return to the user (you can see the rate of connection lost on API queries to recentchanges).TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: jcrespoCc: Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Mattflaschen-WMF added a comment. Note that this means there may be a specifically-relevant change to a watched page (if you're not watching the directly-linked page for the entity) that affects that page's rendering, but doesn't show on your Watchlist. This is probably already intended to be temporary, and I understand it's a necessary performance workaround, but I think this should be flagged to be updated later. It's probably fine for Special:RecentChanges.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Mattflaschen-WMFCc: Mattflaschen-WMF, Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Lydia_Pintscher added a comment. Yes that's what @hoo is working on. It's more complicated than it sounds though.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Lydia_PintscherCc: Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Strainu added a comment. Isn't it possible to determine the data used and segment the RC feed based on that? For instance, very few articles make use of the language links except the article linked to the item. On the other hand, many articles use only the localized labels of items, which means it's probably not interesting to push changes to item properties to those articles. For example, [[:ro:Pola Illéry]] is the only article using the IW data for [[:d:Q459912]]. It also make uses of some properties in [[:d:Q271395]], but only the label in [[:d:Q30]]. So recent changes to IW for [[:d:Q459912]] should not go to other articles except [[:ro:Pola Illéry]] and property changes for [[:d:Q30]] should not go to [[:ro:Pola Illéry]].TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: StrainuCc: Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Lydia_Pintscher added a comment. Not all link items but all articles that make use of the data in that item. The idea is that everyone using that data should see when it changes.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Lydia_PintscherCc: Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T177707: don't dispatch changes to all affected pages for highly used items
Strainu added a comment. What was the original idea behind pushing changes to an item to all linked items? This doesn't happen for MediaWiki and seems useless to me (N=1 seems perfect to me right now), but perhaps I'm missing something.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T177707EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: StrainuCc: Strainu, TerraCodes, Jay8g, Liuxinyu970226, jcrespo, Bawolff, Aklapper, hoo, daniel, Ladsgroup, Lydia_Pintscher, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
