[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[SWakiyama]

SWakiyama triaged this task as "High" priority.
SWakiyama updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: SWakiyama
Cc: BeatEstermann, Lydia_Pintscher, Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, 
Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, 
Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, 
Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, 
SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  In T230315#7307613 , 
@John_Cummings wrote:
  
  > Thanks very much @addshore and @Lydia_Pintscher, one thing I don't 
understand is who in practice could implement this?
  
  This is up to the team at the WMF responsible for structured data on Commons.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Lydia_Pintscher
Cc: BeatEstermann, Lydia_Pintscher, Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, 
Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, 
Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, 
Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, 
SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a comment.


  Thanks very much @addshore and @Lydia_Pintscher, one thing I don't understand 
is who in practice could implement this?

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, 
CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, 
John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, 
valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, 
Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, 
Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Addshore]

Addshore added a comment.


  F34619303: image.png 
  
  This bit should probably say something else, but otherwise this latest mock 
looks good and aligns with the datamodel being used to store these references 
(same as on wikidata)
  
  In T230315#7303039 , 
@mwilliams wrote:
  
  > Thanks for the great feedback. @Dominicbm you are correct that this needs 
to be a collection of grouped claims and that my mockups didn't communicate 
that functionality.
  
  Just to pick on terminology a bit, a reference is made up of a group / 
collection of snaks
  
  https://wmde.github.io/wikidata-wikibase-architecture/Glossary.html#snak
  
  Claims are essentially synonyms to statements at this stage 
https://wmde.github.io/wikidata-wikibase-architecture/Glossary.html#statement

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Addshore
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, 
CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, 
John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, 
valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, 
Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, 
Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  In T230315#7303039 , 
@mwilliams wrote:
  
  >> Also, this is minor, but in Wikidata each claim is displayed with a 
numerical value showing the number of references (even if it is 0). Will this 
be done in SDoC as well?
  >
  > I haven't quite figured this out but happy to spend more time on it if it 
feels useful.
  
  Wikidata is a secondary knowledgebase, meaning it tries to replicate stuff 
that has its primary source somewhere else and then indicates provenance of the 
data through references. Recording references for the data is at the core of 
the idea of Wikidata so we want references for as much data as possible there. 
This lead to the decision to always show the number of references. If it is 0 
then that should be a nudge towards adding a reference to the statement. If it 
is not 0 then it should give some degree of confidence in that statement.
  For Commons I don't have a strong opinion on showing it or not showing it. I 
think the desire to add references for every statement is less there than on 
Wikidata.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Lydia_Pintscher
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, 
CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, 
John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, 
valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, 
Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, 
Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a comment.


  My assumption is there would be a great deal of benefit in harmonising with 
Wikidata as much as possible for documentation, tools, ease of use etc so if in 
doubt make the same as Wikidata. Also this may allow easier improvements to be 
carrier over from Wikidata maybe?

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Dominicbm]

Dominicbm added a comment.


  In T230315#7303039 , 
@mwilliams wrote:
  
  > Thanks for the great feedback. @Dominicbm you are correct that this needs 
to be a collection of grouped claims and that my mockups didn't communicate 
that functionality. 
  > F34618178: reference.jpg  Here 
is a quick mockup of how that might work, keeping each grouped claim in some 
sort of gray/shaded box. I'd love to keep the functionality as close as 
possible to Wikidata, while still mapping to the visual design choices that 
have already been made with SDoC.
  >
  > Most of the design decisions that shifted away from exactly replicating 
Wikidata pre-date my involvement on this work, I'll try and track down some 
context around that. I'm sure we could revisit those decisions if needed but 
wouldn't want to conflate that work with this new feature.
  
  I think this looks almost perfect. I would not use "Add reference" both 
inside inside and outside the reference gray box. In my understanding, the 
entire grouping in one box is a single reference. Wikidata just says "Add" for 
the claims within the reference, so it's a little less confusing.
  
  >> Also, this is minor, but in Wikidata each claim is displayed with a 
numerical value showing the number of references (even if it is 0). Will this 
be done in SDoC as well?
  >
  > I haven't quite figured this out but happy to spend more time on it if it 
feels useful.
  
  I'm not 100% sure what people use this for in Wikidata, so it's not a big 
deal to me, but I do find value in aligning the design (unless there is 
intention behind a change), so that was the main reason I brought it up.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Dominicbm
Cc: Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[mwilliams]

mwilliams added a comment.


  Thanks for the great feedback. @Dominicbm you are correct that this needs to 
be a collection of grouped claims and that my mockups didn't communicate. 
  F34618178: reference.jpg  Here 
is a quick mockup of how that might work, keeping each grouped claim in some 
sort of gray/shaded box. I'd love to keep the functionality as close as 
possible to Wikidata, while still mapping to the visual design choices that 
have already been made with SDoC.
  
  Most of the design decisions that shifted away from exactly replicating 
Wikidata pre-date my involvement on this work, I'll try and track down some 
context around that. I'm sure we could revisit those decisions if needed but 
wouldn't want to conflate that work with this new feature.
  
  > Also, this is minor, but in Wikidata each claim is displayed with a 
numerical value showing the number of references (even if it is 0). Will this 
be done in SDoC as well?
  
  I haven't quite figured this out but happy to spend more time on it if it 
feels useful.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: mwilliams
Cc: Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[GFontenelle_WMF]

GFontenelle_WMF added a project: GLAM.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: GFontenelle_WMF
Cc: Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Jimfhahn, Dr.uesenfieber, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Mu301, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a subscriber: Addshore.
John_Cummings added a comment.


  In T230315#7302889 , 
@Dominicbm wrote:
  
  > In T230315#7302885 , 
@John_Cummings wrote:
  >
  >> Thanks very much for explaining this, is what you would like basically the 
same way Wikidata does references? I've been trying to think of a use case that 
wouldn't work for the existing Wikidata approach for adding references and I 
can't think of one.
  >
  > Yes, I think it //must// work this way. If you want to cite a book, you 
will need a title, an author, a publisher, etc. A web citation needs a URL and 
an access date. And so on. These claims all belong to one reference, and cannot 
be mixed together with claims for other references. Once you have two 
references for a statement, you need to know which title a given author claim 
belongs with. So there must be grouping. In the data, each reference is its own 
JSON object with a unique hash, in addition to all of its child claims. 
Qualifiers, by contrast, are all just standalone claims.
  
  Thanks very much for confirming, do you know who in WMDE is knowledgable 
about how this all works? @Addshore are you able to suggest someone?

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Addshore, mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Dominicbm]

Dominicbm added a comment.


  In T230315#7302885 , 
@John_Cummings wrote:
  
  > Thanks very much for explaining this, is what you would like basically the 
same way Wikidata does references? I've been trying to think of a use case that 
wouldn't work for the existing Wikidata approach for adding references and I 
can't think of one.
  
  Yes, I think it //must// work this way. If you want to cite a book, you will 
need a title, an author, a publisher, etc. A web citation needs a URL and an 
access date. And so on. These claims all belong to one reference, and cannot be 
mixed together with claims for other references. Once you have two references 
for a statement, you need two know which title a given author claim belongs 
with. So there must be grouping. In the data, each reference is its own JSON 
object with a unique hash, in addition to all of its child claims. Qualifiers, 
by contrast, are all just standalone claims.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Dominicbm
Cc: mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a comment.


  In T230315#7302718 , 
@Dominicbm wrote:
  
  > @mwilliams So, in terms of the interface, I think it's going to be a little 
more complicated than this mockup has captured so far. A reference does more 
than a qualifier does, so it's not just a matter of adding a new sub-claim with 
a property and value when a user selects "add reference". If you check how this 
works on Wikidata, clicking "add reference" creates a shaded box, within which 
the user can add any number of claims that are all grouped collectively as that 
one reference. If you click "add reference" again, you would actually be 
starting a new shaded box with a different group of claims for the second 
reference.
  >
  > In the mockup, I'm not sure how this works yet. In the bottom left image, I 
see a place to add a claim—the text box expecting a "Property"—meaning someone 
has already clicked "Add reference" once, and then I see an "Add reference" 
button under that. On Wikidata (see below for reference), once you click to 
start a new reference, the user has both an "+add" button //within// the 
reference to add new claims to the reference, as well as an "+add reference" 
button //under// the reference, to start a new reference. I just want to make 
sure references in SDoC are being designed a collection of grouped claims, 
rather than as single disconnected claims (as qualifiers). If this is the plan 
already, and it's just that maybe a new text box pops up once the first one is 
entered, I would still suggest that some form of shading or visual marker to 
show which claims constitute the same reference would be helpful.
  >
  > F34618098: Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 2.18.51 PM.png 

  >
  > Also, this is minor, but in Wikidata each claim is displayed with a 
numerical value showing the number of references (even if it is 0). Will this 
be done in SDoC as well?
  
  Thanks very much for explaining this, is what you would like basically the 
same way Wikidata does references? I've been trying to think of a use case that 
wouldn't work for the existing Wikidata approach for adding references and I 
can't think of one.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Dominicbm]

Dominicbm added a comment.


  @mwilliams So, in terms of the interface, I think it's going to be a little 
more complicated than this mockup has captured so far. A reference does more 
than a qualifier does, so it's not just a matter of adding a new sub-claim with 
a property and value when a user selects "add reference". If you check how this 
works on Wikidata, clicking "add reference" creates a shaded box, within which 
the user can add any number of claims that are all grouped collectively as that 
one reference. If you click "add reference" again, you would actually be 
starting a new shaded box with a different group of claims for the second 
reference.
  
  In the mockup, I'm not sure how this works yet. In the bottom left image, I 
see a place to add a claim—the text box expecting a "Property"—meaning someone 
has already clicked "Add reference" once, and then I see an "Add reference" 
button under that. On Wikidata (see below for reference), once you click to 
start a new reference, the user has both an "+add" button //within// the 
reference to add new claims to the reference, as well as an "+add reference" 
button //under// the reference, to start a new reference. I just want to make 
sure references in SDoC are being designed a collection of grouped claims, 
rather than as single disconnected claims (as qualifiers). If this is the plan 
already, and it's just that maybe a new text box pops up once the first one is 
entered, I would still suggest that some form of shading or visual marker to 
show which claims constitute the same reference would be helpful.
  
  F34618098: Screen Shot 2021-08-23 at 2.18.51 PM.png 

  
  Also, this is minor, but in Wikidata each claim is displayed with a numerical 
value showing the number of references (even if it is 0). Will this be done in 
SDoC as well?

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Dominicbm
Cc: mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a comment.


  Hi @mwilliams thanks so much for creating these mock ups, I feel having 
references on SDC is extremely important especially when working with partners. 
My inital reaction is they look great, my guess is that having the same 
structure for references and qualifiers as Wikidata would make the most sense 
since it is a proven way of doing it and I would assume improve 
interoperability.
  
  Thanks again

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[mwilliams]

mwilliams added a comment.


  I wanted to share a first pass of how we might be able to approach this on 
Commons. These mockups are based on the idea of having both qualifier and 
reference statements (row three in @Fuzheado's "Approach for attribution" table 
)
  
  F34590754: reference_v1.jpg 

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: mwilliams
Cc: mwilliams, ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, 
Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, 
Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, 
Aklapper, Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, 
Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Bodhisattwa, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[CBogen]

CBogen added a project: Structured-Data-Backlog (Current Work).

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: CBogen
Cc: ChristianFerrer, Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, 
FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, 
Spinster, JeanFred, Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, 
Bugreporter, toberto, Invadibot, Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, 
Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, Seddon, Lahi, Gq86, Ramsey-WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Bodhisattwa, 
Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a comment.


  In T230315#7098309 , 
@Fuzheado wrote:
  
  > This conversation about how to do bot additions of depiction metadata, and 
attribute them appropriately in Wikidata vs Commons, might be useful here as it 
is what spawned the recent interest in this topic.
  >
  > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/METbot
  >
  > The short version: Wikidata prefers reference statements when citing the 
source of a statement, while Commons has no choice but to use qualifiers to do 
the same. This means we have different ways in Commons and Wikidata to do the 
same thing, with no prospect of unifying our approach. This only adds to our 
list of Wikidata vs Commons woes. Not only are we a "community" with different 
project norms, we are now separated by differing technical capacities (or at 
least user interface) even though both Commons and Wikidata are using Wikibase.
  
  Thanks for this really clear summary. Question: If they did have the same 
structure would this mean we could use tools meant for Wikidata on SDC data 
(and maybe both at the same time) eg tools that use Wikidata data on Wikipedia.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Mbch331, bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Mbch331, bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Fuzheado]

Fuzheado added a comment.


  A longer summary of the issues I wrote up and posted on Commons:
  
  
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons_talk:Structured_data=561823906#Feedback_from_Andrew_Lih

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Fuzheado
Cc: Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Mbch331, bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Fuzheado]

Fuzheado added a comment.


  This conversation about how to do bot additions of depiction metadata, and 
attribute them appropriately in Wikidata vs Commons, might be useful here as it 
is what spawned the recent interest in this topic.
  
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/METbot
  
  The short version: Wikidata prefers reference statements when citing the 
source of a statement, while Commons has no choice but to use qualifiers to do 
the same. This means we have different ways in Commons and Wikidata to do the 
same thing, with no prospect of unifying our approach. This only adds to our 
list of Wikidata vs Commons woes. Not only are we a "community" with different 
project norms, we are now separated by differing technical capacities (or at 
least user interface) even though both Commons and Wikidata are using Wikibase.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Fuzheado
Cc: Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
Surya742, maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Mbch331, bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[GFontenelle_WMF]

GFontenelle_WMF added a comment.


  Hi, everyone! Yes, this activity is not on the SD team roadmap for now, but 
after we talked to them about it and the importance this could have on 
GLAM-Wiki activities, they want to understand the Commons community's interest 
in it as well. I added a section about it on the Structured Data on Commons 
talk page 
.
 Please, share your thoughts there too -- and we might see this happening! 
Thanks!

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: GFontenelle_WMF
Cc: Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, 
Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[Susannaanas]

Susannaanas added a comment.


  I am very interested in the topic but I am not very useful in putting the 
feature to action.
  
  I think SDC is superior to any other environment in the Internet in being 
able to record and display the provenance of statements about media items. To 
see where a description or a tag originated from, be it an institution, a 
volunteer or an automated tagging algorithm. This information can be used to 
correct derogative captions, detect mistakes etc. while at the same time 
creating a trace of the previous states.
  
  I would like to take part in the discussion and intertwine it with a vision 
of structured metadata exchange between web platforms serving cultural heritage 
items.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Susannaanas
Cc: Susannaanas, Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, 
Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings added a comment.


  Its been confirmed by @GFontenelle_WMF that WMF do not have implementing 
references on SDC in their development roadmap so it would have to be done by 
others.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, 
Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T230315: Create a way to see and add references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements

[John_Cummings]

John_Cummings renamed this task from "Allow adding references to structured 
data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements " to "Create a way to see and add 
references to structured data on Commons (MediaInfo) statements ".
John_Cummings updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T230315

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: John_Cummings
Cc: Cparle, CBogen, Alicia_Fagerving_WMSE, FRomeo_WMF, Fuzheado, 
GFontenelle_WMF, John_Cummings, Dominicbm, Husky, Spinster, JeanFred, 
Multichill, Jarekt, valerio.bozzolan, Aklapper, Bugreporter, Invadibot, 
maantietaja, Mohammed_Sadat_WMDE, Nintendofan885, Akuckartz, Nandana, JKSTNK, 
Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Izno, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Jhernandez, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331, 
bd808
___
Wikidata-bugs mailing list -- wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-bugs-le...@lists.wikimedia.org