[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter merged a task: T327374: No change in Structured data in Commons 
files when Wikidata items are merged.
Bugreporter added a subscriber: JopkeB.

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To: Bugreporter
Cc: JopkeB, Pintoch, Multichill, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, 
LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, Astuthiodit_1, 
AWesterinen, karapayneWMDE, toberto, Invadibot, MPhamWMF, maantietaja, CBogen, 
ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, EBjune, merbst, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Pintoch]

Pintoch added a comment.


  If someone takes the initiative to run a bot to propagate Wikidata redirects 
in Commons, they might be interested in integrating that bot with the 
EditGroups instance for Commons (https://editgroups-commons.toolforge.org/, 
that I just deployed) so that the effect of a bad merge can be reverted on 
Commons too (just like KrBot is integrated with the Wikidata instance of the 
tool: https://editgroups.toolforge.org/?tool=KrBotResolvingRedirect

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To: Pintoch
Cc: Pintoch, Multichill, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, 
Cparle, Keegan, Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, toberto, Invadibot, MPhamWMF, 
maantietaja, CBogen, Akuckartz, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, aude, Tobias1984, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Gehel]

Gehel triaged this task as "High" priority.

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To: Gehel
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, 
Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Jarekt]

Jarekt added a comment.


  I created T262837  which might be 
a blocking issue for this task.

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To: Jarekt
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, 
Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Jarekt]

Jarekt added a comment.


  In T237899#6459032 , 
@Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE wrote:
  
  > Furthermore, from a technical perspective I doubt it’s even possible for 
Wikibase to update statements on Commons when items on Wikidata are merged. 
Within Wikidata, the software could discover all the affected pages through the 
pagelinks table, but on Commons I don’t know how Wikibase would even find the 
affected pages that need to be edited. (MediaInfo statements don’t seem to 
automatically record entity usage 
 for entities 
used in statements; compare the page information for a Test Commons file with 
one statement 
.)
  
  Purging pages on Commons affected by changes on Wikidata is a ongoing issue. 
See for example T173339  where pages 
on Commons are not purged when wikidata items they link to are updated. But you 
are right that files on Commons do not seem to keep track of entities they are 
connected to through SDC statements, the way they keep track of the same 
entities linked through lua calls originating from file description wikitext. 
For example File:Seneca_Rocks_climbing_-_13.jpg infopage 

 in "Wikidata entities used in this page" section has a link to Seneca Rocks 
(Q7450337)  because it is linked from 
infobox template, but links to other depicted entities like Traditional 
climbing (Q2214812)  is missing as it 
only shows up in SDC tab. That is a problem.

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To: Jarekt
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, 
Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, aude, Tobias1984, Manybubbles, Mbch331, Ltrlg
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Jarekt]

Jarekt added a comment.


  In T237899#6459022 , 
@LucasWerkmeister wrote:
  
  > Note that KrBot only updates statements pointing to redirects after a 
certain time has passed (a week, I believe). This is by design: otherwise, it 
would be more difficult to “untangle” bad merges, since after undoing the merge 
on the item itself, you could not distinguish between statements that should 
now point back to the original item and statements that always pointed to the 
other (merge target) item.
  
  I think it is great that KrBot delays updating redirected items as we do have 
a lot of bad merges, by either vandals or incompetent editors and unmerging 
items is a mess. I did propose to create some tool for undoing merges as simple 
as merges, see T237262 .  If merge 
and un-merge operations were build into wikibase system than the system would 
be able to track all the changes which were done in the merge (possibly using 
an edit group ) and can 
undo all of those. In such a case there is no need for the delay KrBot  uses.

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To: Jarekt
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, 
Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE]

Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE added a comment.


  Furthermore, from a technical perspective I doubt it’s even possible for 
Wikibase to update statements on Commons when items on Wikidata are merged. 
Within Wikidata, the software could discover all the affected pages through the 
pagelinks table, but on Commons I don’t know how Wikibase would even find the 
affected pages that need to be edited. (MediaInfo statements don’t seem to 
automatically record entity usage 
 for entities 
used in statements; compare the page information for a Test Commons file with 
one statement 
.)

TASK DETAIL
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To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, 
Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, aude, Tobias1984, Manybubbles, Mbch331, Ltrlg
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[LucasWerkmeister]

LucasWerkmeister added a comment.


  Note that KrBot only updates statements pointing to redirects after a certain 
time has passed (a week, I believe). This is by design: otherwise, it would be 
more difficult to “untangle” bad merges, since after undoing the merge on the 
item itself, you could not distinguish between statements that should now point 
back to the original item and statements that always pointed to the other 
(merge target) item.
  
  This is less of a problem nowadays, since we have edit groups 
 and KrBot assigns an edit 
group per processed merge (and you can undo the entire edit group); on the 
other hand, edit groups are a Wikidata-only tool (compare T203557 
), so on Commons you would still 
have this problem of being unable to untangle bad merges.
  
  I have trouble imagining Wikibase automatically updating references to 
redirects after such a long delay, though.

TASK DETAIL
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To: LucasWerkmeister
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CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Jarekt]

Jarekt added a comment.


  WCQS queries that have to look things up on wikidata have a very tiny 
connection between WCQS and WDQS and are so under-powered it can not run 
queries of that complexity. See T261716 
 where I was just advised that for 
queries that rely on WDQS an //"offline processing via the dumps might be a 
better option"// because //"we want to have strong limits on resource 
consumption"//. I personally have no idea how to use commons and wikidata dumps 
to stand up a database to do a simple SPARQL query. And how to rebuild that 
weekly.
  
  It seems to be a task better perform by the database itself.

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To: Jarekt
Cc: Ramsey-WMF, LucasWerkmeister, Cparle, Keegan, Tacsipacsi, Aklapper, Jarekt, 
CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, 
LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T237899: Wikidata item ID changes caused by merges do not update entities on Structured data on Commons

[Ramsey-WMF]

Ramsey-WMF added subscribers: LucasWerkmeister, Ramsey-WMF.
Ramsey-WMF edited projects, added Wikidata-Query-Service, 
Structured-Data-Backlog; removed SDC General.
Ramsey-WMF added a comment.


  Creating a user operated bot to reflect Wikidata redirects on Commons, 
similar to the way it's handled on Wikidata per the comment below, may be 
possible now with the WCQS. I wonder if @LucasWerkmeister has suggestions here?
  
  In T237899#5743013 , 
@Jarekt wrote:
  
  > It seems like it is an user operated bot that updates redirects on 
Wikidata. I proposed to create similar got on Commons, see 
Commons:Bots/Work_requests#update_redirected_wikidata_items_used_by_SDC 

 but there does not seem to be much response. Part of the issue is that at the 
moment there does not seem to be a way to even query for such redirects. I 
tried to write one, like this one 

 using sdcquery.wmflabs.org, but could not get it to work. I tried to get some 
advice on creating such a query at 
Wikidata:Request_a_query#finding_redirected_wikidata_items_used_by_SDC 

 but got no replies. So I guess we are blocked by lack of reliable querying 
system that can access both SDC and Wikidata.

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CBogen, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, 
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